Arsenal at least play good football when winning the 4th place trophy and the prestigious Emirates Cup, Moyes will never have us playing good football even if he gets us to Arsenals level, because simply he doesn't know how.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Arsenal at least play good football when winning the 4th place trophy and the prestigious Emirates Cup, Moyes will never have us playing good football even if he gets us to Arsenals level, because simply he doesn't know how.
Too many excuses for this man.
Even though I can see why he should get until at least this time next season, he has a poor job. His whole attitude is defeatist and full of excuses. He has already spent 65 million, i'm a little apprehensive in regards to what he will do this Summer. We keep being linked with big name players the chances of us getting even half of these is low. Does he have the ability t spot players at smaller clubs who have the ability to play at the highest level, i'm not just talking about the obvious ones either. The reason we did so 'well' against Bayern is because we were the underdogs and the job was to defend and try and snatch a goal by exploiting their weak central defence. A club like us who have to come out on the front foot and force the issue does not suit his mentality.
Still hoping he grows into it.....
Even though I can see why he should get until at least this time next season, he has a poor job. His whole attitude is defeatist and full of excuses. He has already spent 65 million, i'm a little apprehensive in regards to what he will do this Summer. We keep being linked with big name players the chances of us getting even half of these is low. Does he have the ability t spot players at smaller clubs who have the ability to play at the highest level, i'm not just talking about the obvious ones either. The reason we did so 'well' against Bayern is because we were the underdogs and the job was to defend and try and snatch a goal by exploiting their weak central defence. A club like us who have to come out on the front foot and force the issue does not suit his mentality.
Still hoping he grows into it.....
Very much this. The profile of players sought by Moyes may well and truly be not compatible at all with the brand of football we would like to have in our path to dominate the PL and Europe again.
He won't be allowed to turn us into arsenal. I still think he's gone in the summer
I hope so, but I can't see it. I'm resigned to at least another season under Moyes.
Wenger may have lost his winning touch but he had always insisted on playing a highly technical football. Moyes brought Fellaini for 27m
I hate how hes lowered expectations so much its got to the point where i am not even shocked we will not have UCL football next season. At first it was "i think we can still challenge but we'll come up short" to "top 4 is a must" to "a good cup run" to "theres always next season"... I just pray not with Moyes at the helm
I wasn't really comparing the style of football, but I take your point. The loitering around 4th place position is something that I just can't be arsed to see, particularly if we spend so much money.
The board are obviously interested in the stock price therefore they understand the importance of victory on the field. They also have shown themselves patient and understand even the new guy might need time before we are back to where Ferguson had us. It is therefore in their interest to act at the end of the season and sack Moyes, they will only back him if they are confident he will perform considerably better next season.
Why would they take an unnecessary gamble when they have plenty of managers who could achieve the objectives required?
The great thing here is that I do think the board will be patient if the new manager consistently delivers top four giving him ample time to build a powerful foundation from which a future great team could be launched.
Even if they do not sack Moyes immediately they should monitor the availability of other targets, especially Diego and Jurgen. They must be tempted, surely?
Does anybody know what Diego Simeone's plans are? He will be wanted by most however whether he leaves is another question. Athletico are well placed to compete for La Liga next season again if they keep hold of key players and add to their squad, especially since Barcelona's transfer ban.
Why would they take an unnecessary gamble when they have plenty of managers who could achieve the objectives required?
The great thing here is that I do think the board will be patient if the new manager consistently delivers top four giving him ample time to build a powerful foundation from which a future great team could be launched.
Even if they do not sack Moyes immediately they should monitor the availability of other targets, especially Diego and Jurgen. They must be tempted, surely?
Does anybody know what Diego Simeone's plans are? He will be wanted by most however whether he leaves is another question. Athletico are well placed to compete for La Liga next season again if they keep hold of key players and add to their squad, especially since Barcelona's transfer ban.
I reckon if someone offered me an 'Arsenal like' few years, i.e highly technical, attacking football, but ultimately finishing 4th being the best it gets, I reckon I'd take it. Because I think that's more then anything Moyes will be able to achieve. I'd put good money on us never winning the league under Moyes.
This.
Getting top 4 could be a stretch for him. I have zero faith in Moyes.
In individual considerations, possibly, but it's quite incredible how much more than the sum of their parts they are. The amount of two bob cnuts they have yet they look unstoppable. I'm already resigned to 20-19. It's so vital for the future of the club that this fu-king loser is fu-ked off as soon as possible that I don't even know what I'm willing to do to move it along. How the fu-k has it come to this.
From today's Times.
Manchester United are facing up to the prospect of no Champions League football next season for the first time in 18 years. Trailing Arsenal, in fourth, by seven points with five matches remaining, United’s elimination in the Champions League quarter-finals by Bayern Munich on Wednesday effectively ended any hopes they have of competing in the competition next term.
Here The Times takes a look at the challenges, concerns and questions facing David Moyes, the United manager, the Glazer family, the club’s owners, and the squad as they plot their next moves.
The manager’s future
The Glazers are ruthless businessmen who are driven by the bottom line and not by sentiment. It seems unthinkable that the Americans will not be deliberating whether it will be wise to entrust a transfer kitty of up to £200 million this summer to a manager who could be on his way out come Christmas if United endure a poor start to next season.
As things stand, Moyes seems more likely to be in charge at Old Trafford next term than not, but a return to Goodison Park on Sunday week to face an in-form Everton, his former club, has the potential to invite more awkward questions about the manager’s suitability for the job.
Moyes’s mindset and methods
Should Moyes survive, he will have to make an adjustment to his approach if mistakes are not to be repeated. It might seem trivial, but he must start talking like a United manager. Installing Liverpool as “favourites” before their game at Old Trafford last month and claiming that Manchester City are “at the sort of level we are aspiring to” has done little to undermine the view — advanced by the supporters’ forum of the Red Issue fanzine — that Moyes “seems to be completely disassociated and visibly uncomfortable with the fact that he is manager of United”.
Ryan Giggs and Moyes held court before the first leg against Bayern, with the veteran midfielder affronted by the idea that the European champions should be considered such favourites to win. By contrast, Moyes’s diction routinely fails to project an image of strength. His sentences are laced with words such as “hopefully” — you can almost hear the groans from United supporters as they are uttered.
That natural caution and reticence are mirrored on the field. If United are 1-0 in front, Moyes’s default setting seems to be to cling to what they have and it has not been uncommon to see the team retreating deeper and deeper to try to protect a slender lead. It has invariably worked, but it invites trouble and is a concept alien to players conditioned by Sir Alex Ferguson, the former United manager, always to go for the jugular.
Once a hallmark of their resilience, United have also looked uncomfortable chasing matches. Of the 16 Barclays Premier League games in which they have trailed this term, they have recovered to win only four of them.
Moyes must also make his mark in the big matches. United have beaten only three teams of note this term — Liverpool in the Capital One Cup, Arsenal in the league and, at a push, Olympiacos in the Champions League. Ten points from 42 against the league’s present top nine is a damning statistic. Given that many had expected Bayern to demolish United over two legs, there was a degree of respectability to be had in a 4-2 aggregate defeat, but at the same time it will have been disconcerting that the German champions appeared to play well within themselves and were still able to progress.
The squad management must also improve — players have often found themselves overworked to the point of fatigue or underused, only to be suddenly thrown in from the cold.
The transfer market
Moyes’s indecision in the transfer market cost United dear last summer — a repeat is inconceivable this time around, not least in a World Cup year. Moyes likes Toni Kroos, the Bayern midfielder, but he cannot afford to be led up the garden path, as he was in the case of Cesc Fàbregas, the Barcelona midfielder, by a player simply angling to strengthen his position at his club.
Manchester has never been an easy sell for star players. Without Champions League football to offer and a manager on rocky ground, it will become even harder, unless United are willing to pay significantly over the odds in wages. Aware of United’s desperation for new players, clubs will inflate their asking prices accordingly — something that their neighbours across the city know only too well.
Moreover, will Moyes spend well? The £27 million lavished on Marouane Fellaini, the former Everton player, already looks an extremely costly error of judgment, while the £37.1 million purchase of Juan Mata, the midfielder, seems hard to rationalise when there are areas of the team in much greater need of attention.
Financial impact
The absence of Champions League football next season will cost United just over £20 million in lost revenue, which should be partially offset by an increasingly lucrative summer tour, potential mid-season exhibition matches overseas and new commercial deals. A single season outside Europe’s elite club competition would be comfortable for the club to swallow financially, but an extended spell without it could have wider- reaching repercussions.
The squad
United could lose Rio Ferdinand and Patrice Evra, the defenders, in addition to Giggs and Nemanja Vidic, their captain, who has already announced that he is leaving at the end of the season. Between them, they have 29 Premier League winners’ medals. To lose that amount of experience in one go would take some replacing. It would also leave Moyes needing to sign three or four defenders on top of addressing the issues in midfield and in attack.
That would be troubling enough were his younger defenders — Chris Smalling, Phil Jones, Jonny Evans and Rafael Da Silva — not all so injury-prone. Signing up to six players and offloading as many as ten in a single summer is probably unrealistic.
As such, there are players, whose relations with Moyes have become strained, that may well need to be brought back onside and from whom the manager will have to find an efficient way of extracting a much higher level of performance.
The coaching staff
There are a number of senior figures at United who would like Moyes to address the make-up of his backroom staff, with concerns over Steve Round, the assistant manager, Phil Neville, the first-team coach, and Jimmy Lumsden, a fellow United coach. A more respected, innovative coach who challenges the status quo could freshen up the place.
The Rooney and Van Persie conundrum
Robin van Persie’s commitment to United — and Moyes’s desire to keep the striker — may be put to the test if an attractive offer comes in. Wayne Rooney, left, having just signed a 5½-year contract, is not going anywhere, but it will concern Moyes that the striker scored only twice in the Champions League and has three goals against teams in the present top nine in the league. A toe injury could not explain the two excellent chances he squandered against Bayern on Wednesday.
Manchester United are facing up to the prospect of no Champions League football next season for the first time in 18 years. Trailing Arsenal, in fourth, by seven points with five matches remaining, United’s elimination in the Champions League quarter-finals by Bayern Munich on Wednesday effectively ended any hopes they have of competing in the competition next term.
Here The Times takes a look at the challenges, concerns and questions facing David Moyes, the United manager, the Glazer family, the club’s owners, and the squad as they plot their next moves.
The manager’s future
The Glazers are ruthless businessmen who are driven by the bottom line and not by sentiment. It seems unthinkable that the Americans will not be deliberating whether it will be wise to entrust a transfer kitty of up to £200 million this summer to a manager who could be on his way out come Christmas if United endure a poor start to next season.
As things stand, Moyes seems more likely to be in charge at Old Trafford next term than not, but a return to Goodison Park on Sunday week to face an in-form Everton, his former club, has the potential to invite more awkward questions about the manager’s suitability for the job.
Moyes’s mindset and methods
Should Moyes survive, he will have to make an adjustment to his approach if mistakes are not to be repeated. It might seem trivial, but he must start talking like a United manager. Installing Liverpool as “favourites” before their game at Old Trafford last month and claiming that Manchester City are “at the sort of level we are aspiring to” has done little to undermine the view — advanced by the supporters’ forum of the Red Issue fanzine — that Moyes “seems to be completely disassociated and visibly uncomfortable with the fact that he is manager of United”.
Ryan Giggs and Moyes held court before the first leg against Bayern, with the veteran midfielder affronted by the idea that the European champions should be considered such favourites to win. By contrast, Moyes’s diction routinely fails to project an image of strength. His sentences are laced with words such as “hopefully” — you can almost hear the groans from United supporters as they are uttered.
That natural caution and reticence are mirrored on the field. If United are 1-0 in front, Moyes’s default setting seems to be to cling to what they have and it has not been uncommon to see the team retreating deeper and deeper to try to protect a slender lead. It has invariably worked, but it invites trouble and is a concept alien to players conditioned by Sir Alex Ferguson, the former United manager, always to go for the jugular.
Once a hallmark of their resilience, United have also looked uncomfortable chasing matches. Of the 16 Barclays Premier League games in which they have trailed this term, they have recovered to win only four of them.
Moyes must also make his mark in the big matches. United have beaten only three teams of note this term — Liverpool in the Capital One Cup, Arsenal in the league and, at a push, Olympiacos in the Champions League. Ten points from 42 against the league’s present top nine is a damning statistic. Given that many had expected Bayern to demolish United over two legs, there was a degree of respectability to be had in a 4-2 aggregate defeat, but at the same time it will have been disconcerting that the German champions appeared to play well within themselves and were still able to progress.
The squad management must also improve — players have often found themselves overworked to the point of fatigue or underused, only to be suddenly thrown in from the cold.
The transfer market
Moyes’s indecision in the transfer market cost United dear last summer — a repeat is inconceivable this time around, not least in a World Cup year. Moyes likes Toni Kroos, the Bayern midfielder, but he cannot afford to be led up the garden path, as he was in the case of Cesc Fàbregas, the Barcelona midfielder, by a player simply angling to strengthen his position at his club.
Manchester has never been an easy sell for star players. Without Champions League football to offer and a manager on rocky ground, it will become even harder, unless United are willing to pay significantly over the odds in wages. Aware of United’s desperation for new players, clubs will inflate their asking prices accordingly — something that their neighbours across the city know only too well.
Moreover, will Moyes spend well? The £27 million lavished on Marouane Fellaini, the former Everton player, already looks an extremely costly error of judgment, while the £37.1 million purchase of Juan Mata, the midfielder, seems hard to rationalise when there are areas of the team in much greater need of attention.
Financial impact
The absence of Champions League football next season will cost United just over £20 million in lost revenue, which should be partially offset by an increasingly lucrative summer tour, potential mid-season exhibition matches overseas and new commercial deals. A single season outside Europe’s elite club competition would be comfortable for the club to swallow financially, but an extended spell without it could have wider- reaching repercussions.
The squad
United could lose Rio Ferdinand and Patrice Evra, the defenders, in addition to Giggs and Nemanja Vidic, their captain, who has already announced that he is leaving at the end of the season. Between them, they have 29 Premier League winners’ medals. To lose that amount of experience in one go would take some replacing. It would also leave Moyes needing to sign three or four defenders on top of addressing the issues in midfield and in attack.
That would be troubling enough were his younger defenders — Chris Smalling, Phil Jones, Jonny Evans and Rafael Da Silva — not all so injury-prone. Signing up to six players and offloading as many as ten in a single summer is probably unrealistic.
As such, there are players, whose relations with Moyes have become strained, that may well need to be brought back onside and from whom the manager will have to find an efficient way of extracting a much higher level of performance.
The coaching staff
There are a number of senior figures at United who would like Moyes to address the make-up of his backroom staff, with concerns over Steve Round, the assistant manager, Phil Neville, the first-team coach, and Jimmy Lumsden, a fellow United coach. A more respected, innovative coach who challenges the status quo could freshen up the place.
The Rooney and Van Persie conundrum
Robin van Persie’s commitment to United — and Moyes’s desire to keep the striker — may be put to the test if an attractive offer comes in. Wayne Rooney, left, having just signed a 5½-year contract, is not going anywhere, but it will concern Moyes that the striker scored only twice in the Champions League and has three goals against teams in the present top nine in the league. A toe injury could not explain the two excellent chances he squandered against Bayern on Wednesday.
It makes for depressing reading when it is all laid out like that.
His latest quotes post-Bayern are really disgraceful.
"It'll hopefully only be one year the way we hope to rebuild. The focus now is on getting a team that can get us back in this competition because we've really enjoyed it."
It's outrageous in many ways, but look at what it says about his ambition - he wants to rebuild, to try and get back into the top 4.
For God's sake, we should be going out at the start of every season trying to win both the Premier League and the Champion's League. Those are the standards set by the bloke who left. If you're too cowardly to have such ambitions you should be nowhere near this club.
I just hope we can get back into the top 4, those are the levels we aspire to.
I had said this earlier. The way he keeps using "hopefully" and "try" in his sentences, just smacks of someone who does not have much confidence in his abilities. I don't remember SAF saying timidly, "I will TRY to knock Liverpool off their perch. Hopefully I can come close to doing that"!
And that task was 100 times harder than what Moyes has on his hands. But SAF had belief in himself and his team to know that he can do it. The arrogance of the man in his abilities is what drove his teams forward and what defined him and us.
Also, the way Moyes says "The focus now is on getting a team that can get us back in this competition" really pisses me off. It's like he is saying this team is not good enough to get top 4 and he needs 5-6 world class players to compete for the top 4. Feckng loser! Look at yourself before you look at the team. The focus should be on you developing enough, not the team.
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Considering that United have only scored 6 goals in total against the top nine teams in which Rooney's featured against this season in the Premier League, Rooney's 3 of those 6 is not a bad contribution. And despite scoring 'only twice,' Rooney has the most assists in the Champions League this season, with 5.
This agenda against Rooney is so boring and tiresome.
We need to know what our options are if we are going to sack Moyes. There's no point getting rid of him and replacing him with someone of the same calibre. We need to know if the likes of Klopp & Simeone would leave their current clubs to join us. With a lack of top manager available at the moment, I doubt we will get rid of him this summer, if things get really bad during the start of next season they we may act around Xmas time but he will be given money to spend and next season to turn it around.
August 1988:
“This isn’t just a job to me.” “It’s a mission. I am deadly serious about it. Some people would reckon too serious. We will get there, believe me. And when it happens, life will change for Liverpool and everyone else — dramatically.”
In 1988! When we were nowhere near challenging. The guy had the courage to say that even then. Moyes is not a patch on this great man and it saddens me further.
Perhaps the club itself has settled for lower expectations and inferior outcomes. We are continually reminded that the Glazers are "ruthless businessmen" and if the way they deal with their Tampa Bay coaches is anything to go by, they are just that. And yet with United they are far more hands off and seemingly unconcerned about the apparent utter unsuitability of their current team manager for the job in hand. Perhaps a top four finish, which even Moyes might be able to accomplish next season, is the extent of everyone's ambition at United. If a trophy comes along, all well and good. If not, so long as we get into the ECL then we're fine, might be the extent of the business plan. Maybe that is sufficient to keep the finances stable and the United brand at the forefront until a buyer with money to burn comes along. I don't know.
He had already performed miracles by knocking Rangers and Celtic off their perch, not to mention beating Real and Bayern en route to the Cup Winners Cup - that is where that confidence and belief came from. Compare to the current incumbent who has never won anything despite being gifted a cup semi-final win when we played our B team before the 2009 CL final and then blowing a lead in the 2012 semi against Kenny's dysfunctional Liverpool. Apart from the accent, it's chalk and cheese, confidence v fear.
Wait until next season when we're a team trying to break into the top four rather than title challengers (we'll start as ones, but that won't last).
Luis Van Gaal or Heynckes can be made available and will achieve far more than Moyes can ''hopefully try'' to achieve . Either can give us a maximum of three years by which time a dream catch like Klopp would be available or someone could have done a Simeone and emerge from nowhere . Staying with the wrong manager under the pretext of a paucity of better alternatives is just being lazy and could cost us dearly .
This!!
They should make a 'goals against the top 9' table if they want to qualify that. It's kinda meaningless otherwise.
"We've really enjoyed it" makes me laugh. Why make it sound like we have never played in it before? You aren't at Everton mate!
One of Moyes' most small time comments. Sickening to hear that from a United manager after a loss. We're in it for the winning Davey boy not the taking part.
With a mentality like that God knows when we'll be in the hunt for titles again if we stick with Moyes.
It is sickening. He may be in awe of the size of this club, but we have won that competition twice and come close just as often.
He is dragging the club down to his level. We are letting this guy 'learn' how to be the manager of this club and it is going to be a disaster.
He is dragging the club down to his level. We are letting this guy 'learn' how to be the manager of this club and it is going to be a disaster.
'We've really enjoyed it'. 
He's become an absolute parody of himself.
He's become an absolute parody of himself.
One of Moyes' most small time comments. Sickening to hear that from a United manager after a loss. We're in it for the winning Davey boy not the taking part.
With a mentality like that God knows when we'll be in the hunt for titles again if we stick with Moyes.
I found this earlier from December 2012 at Everton:
David Moyes said:
He actually is unbearable. Please, for the love of Christ, get rid of him. I actually think he will be quietly ushered out after the last game of the season. His sacking would salvage the campaign. It's the hope that kills you.
We've a real good chance.
I'm sure we'll do very well.
Both of those statements were more positive than what Moyes has said. And this was a man taking over a club (although top four level) that hadn't won the league in a very long time. Many had tried to replicate Sir Alexander Matthew Busby's success; everyone failed. The task was monumental and he could be forgiven for falling like the rest. There was no try and there was no hopefully. He went on to become the best.
I can understand the difference though. He had stopped the old firm dominance of La Scottish Liga; he had beaten Bayern and Real Madrid on the way to the UEFA Cup with Aberdeen. His confidence must have been sky high.
Woody did very, very well in JP Morgan therefore he must know a thing or two about the link between high levels of confidence and performance, it is possible behind the scenes David has told him he expects us to be challenging for the title next season and in turn Woody will make clear failure will be the end of him.
I miss Fergie.
On another note.
Does anybody know how well Mourinho got on with Louis Van Gaal when he was his assistant at Barcelona? I heard Van Gaal always falls out with people so thought this was an interesting partnership.
Does anybody know how well Mourinho got on with Louis Van Gaal when he was his assistant at Barcelona? I heard Van Gaal always falls out with people so thought this was an interesting partnership.
frogie- Status