A top manager goes with his convictions and damn what people will say in the aftermath . If keeping deadweight in that situation represents his convictions then we have every reason to worry .
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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If only I could come up with an example of another top manager who persists with a striker like Rooney despite obviously struggling with injury against a team like Bayern Munich...
I agree with this. Of course, I'd like to be wrong, but from the moment DM was revealed as the successor, I felt a sense of nagging doubt about his credentials. I'm very much not someone who's turned against him. But the combined evidence of results, tactics, performances, press conferences etc... hasn't gone any way to lessening that sense of doubt.
Sure, a proven manager might not come up with the goods, but at least he has a track record & you're putting your trust in that, rather than hoping someone can step up.
I'm thoroughly behind the team at games, the crowd at OT has been good this season in terms of supportive chanting & the defiant chanting of the last 20 minutes against Liverpool was great. Though, from chatter with other fans leaving the ground, I'm not at all convinced DM has everyones support.
I think his plan all along was for us to attack in the latter stages of the game. With Hernandez on the pitch it gave Rooney more freedom to create chances which is something he has been very good at in the cl.
Disaster. As long as we stick with Moyes we will be one of the pack of teams looking to get fourth in competition with Spurs and Everton. Arsenal are our new ceiling.
This season has been terrible and last night Moyes' favouritism of Rooney cost us. The second Moyes removed Fletcher Bayern totally overran our midfield. Yes, we needed more potency up front but Rooney should have been the player to go since he was the one messing up and was clearly unfit. Moyes wasn't big enough to make that call, just like he admitted he didn't remove RVP against Newcastle because he was worried about the press reaction. Moyes sacrificed our shape to make way for Rooney and we paid the price.
If Moyes was that determined to keep Rooney on he should have taken Valencia off and pushed Welbeck wide. Moyes will never make a call like Fergie did last year against Madrid and drop a big name player. He's not got it in him. I worry for our football once Van Persie is fit because Moyes will clearly take the easy option and drop a lesser name player e.g. Kagawa than take on one of his big two. Mata will be back out wide marooned in acres of space without anyone to play off of and we'll be back to being predictable and easy to pick off on the counter.
Fourth place next season will be a trophy under Moyes.
This season has been terrible and last night Moyes' favouritism of Rooney cost us. The second Moyes removed Fletcher Bayern totally overran our midfield. Yes, we needed more potency up front but Rooney should have been the player to go since he was the one messing up and was clearly unfit. Moyes wasn't big enough to make that call, just like he admitted he didn't remove RVP against Newcastle because he was worried about the press reaction. Moyes sacrificed our shape to make way for Rooney and we paid the price.
If Moyes was that determined to keep Rooney on he should have taken Valencia off and pushed Welbeck wide. Moyes will never make a call like Fergie did last year against Madrid and drop a big name player. He's not got it in him. I worry for our football once Van Persie is fit because Moyes will clearly take the easy option and drop a lesser name player e.g. Kagawa than take on one of his big two. Mata will be back out wide marooned in acres of space without anyone to play off of and we'll be back to being predictable and easy to pick off on the counter.
Fourth place next season will be a trophy under Moyes.
I'm not comparing them because it'd be a stupid comparison.
Rooney's our best player this season(after De Gea), Gotze isn't in the top3 players for Bayern this season. There's a stark difference between the two players and their situation.
How in the actual feck do you expect fergie to know we would finish 7th.
Rooney is also the United player who has created and scored the most goals this season. When you need a goal it kind of makes sense to keep him on, no?
The Bayern equivalent of subbing Rooney off would be taking off Robben when they're a goal down. Aye, that would happen...
Well I'm glad we've reduced management to "Identify our best player and play him at all costs"
The long and the short of it is that it didn't work, and it hurt us. What some gimps on an internet forum would've said one way or the other is irrelevant, we're not being paid to be Manchester United manager.
Who cares what people would've said? It worked. Moyes's gamble didn't. These were the calls they made and they live or die by the results of them, not what someone would've thought before the fact.
Welbeck was playing much better than Rooney. He took the wrong person off. I've no idea why this is even controversial! Are we now defending him for bad decisions because we can plausibly think of other people who might have done the same?
The long and the short of it is that it didn't work, and it hurt us. What some gimps on an internet forum would've said one way or the other is irrelevant, we're not being paid to be Manchester United manager.
Who cares what people would've said? It worked. Moyes's gamble didn't. These were the calls they made and they live or die by the results of them, not what someone would've thought before the fact.
Welbeck was playing much better than Rooney. He took the wrong person off. I've no idea why this is even controversial! Are we now defending him for bad decisions because we can plausibly think of other people who might have done the same?
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And injured, which is the relevant bit.
Pep made a good change. Moyes stuck with his injured star (who was playing awfully).
Don't try to be funny. You're very good at being boring. Funny, not so much.
The big difference with Rooney compared to other worldclass footballers is that if Rooney has an off day he looks like a fecking Pub footballer. He was so incredibly shit yesterday it was unreal. In those situations you just have to take him off. nothing good would have come from him yesterday.
Your extremely good at being the joke of the forum, so carry on.
If Robben was about 15% fit and contributing the square route of feck all you can be certain that Pep would have took him off.
No. So he should stay on no matter how shite he was playing? Is he now up droppable? Rooney should have been taken off yesterday, he was obviously struggling and didn't get into the game at all. Moyes saw this yet did nothing.
Let's sub the player with the most assists in cl when we are in dire need of a goal. Genius!!
He got Hernandez in which reduced the goal scoring burden on Rooney, allowing rooney to get back to creating chances which is his best role.
What do assists in previous games matter when he was so clearly not in the game last night?
Yes! if he's playing terribly. That's what managers are supposed to do. He's already admitted he wasn't fit and was struggling to even strike the ball!
See that's just boring again. Better.
People like you are missing that Rooney was actually injured. And we know how good Rooney plays when he is injured (or in a few games after he returns from injury). His lack of technique is completely exposed in those situations and he isn't capable of doing anything good at all.
As someone already pointed out, great players can sometimes pull a rabbit out of a hat even when they're playing badly.
That's why Fergie persisted with Rooney in that game against City when he was arguably the worst player on the pitch. Probably the single worst performance from Rooney in any game that season.
Got forgotten about in the end though...
Since when a position on midfield is Rooney's best role? Cause that was what ROoney played yesterday after Hernandez came on.
It was quite a pathetic sub to take Welbeck off instead of Rooney when Welbeck was giving trouble to Bayern and was our main counter attacking weapon while Rooney was playing like a zombie. It was the definition of a manager who isn't capable of making strong decisions. He knew that he need to do something but didn't had any idea what to do and also was afraid to sub Rooney.
Were u complaining about this when the squad was announced?
And as has already been pointed out to counter than, there's also been countless games where he's been shit and just continued to be shit until the whistle went.
Are you suggesting then, that Wayne Rooney should just never be subbed ever? He should start and finish every game, regardless of form or fitness, because he once scored an amazing goal after being rubbish for 80 minutes?
Again, is he now up droppable?
Come on Jurgen Klopp
Do better than the flop
We'll go wild wild wild
We'll go wild wild wild
Do better than the flop
We'll go wild wild wild
We'll go wild wild wild
Moyes admitted after the game that Rooney was having trouble striking the ball. If that isnt reason enough to sub a player, nothing will. And he took off Welbeck to accommodate Rooney while moving him to CM. Incredible.
He needs to grow a pair and make big calls. We'l know soon when RVP is fit again fwiw, Whether he takes the easy way out and drops Kagawa to the bench again to play them both or persists with what has produced the goods of late.
He needs to grow a pair and make big calls. We'l know soon when RVP is fit again fwiw, Whether he takes the easy way out and drops Kagawa to the bench again to play them both or persists with what has produced the goods of late.
Ferguson subbed Rooney in a CL Final with the game in the balance. Maybe everyone has forgotten that. It's what top managers do.
You realize no one knew before the game that he'd be that poor right? People are saying he should have been subbed off when he was clearly struggling, not that he shouldnt have started.
I haven't seen Rooney on the training to know in what condition he is.
I doubt I would have taken Rooney off last night but I would have understood it if Moyes had, both Welbeck and Valencia were playing very well also. I did think taking Fletcher off was a massive mistake though, we were still very much in the tie at that point but we were there for the taking without the protection Fletcher was offering.
Have you read Moyes's post match comment about Rooney mate? He said he felt Rooney was having trouble striking the ball. In a game of Football, surely that's reason enough to sub a player?
Come on, he's clearly not saying that. The point is that Moyes took a risk and it did not pay off but it is not a decision that is ridiculous wall to wall, though it may seem so right now.
That's exactly what I wanted to say.
It was a gamble which backfired. I said previously that I didn't think it was the right decision but I can see the logic behind it.
You do have that effect in the forum. So I credit you.
As someone already pointed out, great players can sometimes pull a rabbit out of a hat even when they're playing badly.
That's why Fergie persisted with Rooney in that game against City when he was arguably the worst player on the pitch. Probably the single worst performance from Rooney in any game that season.
Got forgotten about in the end though...
I actually think Rooney played worse in a number of games that season, especially Blackpool away where we were 2-0 down when the Boss took him off leaving Berba and Chico to fire us to a famous 3-2 win...
The best managers aren't afraid to make the big calls.
I'm suggesting that in a high profile game like this I would expect Rooney to play 90 minutes, almost every single time. He's a big game player. It's one of the best things about him.
Might be different if we had RvP fit and available. In a game where we were desperate to score, subbing Rooney off to finish the game with just Welbeck and Hernandez as our two strikers would have not been very clever at all.
So the fact that he could, quite literally, barely kick the ball is not a problem?
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