i think tactics were spot on tonight. It will be interesting how we perform vs Everton.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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He certainly didn't look certain.
Sexton won 7 on the trot and still got binned at the end of a season. Glazers have seen enough in my opinion - PL performances have not been good enough. The fact some are "celebrating" how we made it difficult for Bayern shows how far expectations have dropped.
Sexton won 7 on the trot and still got binned at the end of a season. Glazers have seen enough in my opinion - PL performances have not been good enough. The fact some are "celebrating" how we made it difficult for Bayern shows how far expectations have dropped.
I'd say borderline desperation to be honest.
Huh? How many goals have we conceeded against City & Liverpool this season?
meant today
Well, another false dawn is over now. Hopefully, it is going to be the final one.
Indeed. Moyes' highlights of the year are a 1-1 home draw and a 3-1 away loss.
I don't get it, I really don't. People are lowering their expectations so dramatically to defend a man who has never achieved anything of note in his career.
Never expected anything special. The real test will be how we finish the season despite there is nothing else to play for anymore. However our players will have the WC in their minds and will probably not want to injure themselves over pointless matches.
Hopefully he's sacked before dawn.
That's twice in a whole season that's we've been defensively sound against a top team, if you could even include conceeding 3 goals tonight as one of those.
I firmly believe he wanted to sign Fellaini. I severely doubt that he was a 'panic buy' as some people have tried to suggest lately. I believe he wanted to pair Fellaini with a more creative type (his pursuit of Fabregas was proof of that) but fell short. January is never an easy month to deal in (despite us snaring Mata from Chelsea, who will improve us no doubt in the coming seasons) so it's a little harsh to criticise Moyes for failing to address the midfield conundrum then.
This summer will be the litmus test for Moyes, and if he fails to land the necessary players to take us to the next level, he'll be digging his own grave. We may have only one shot at this now (reclaiming a Champions League berth - at the very least) and it's paramount we sign the right players to do so.
I may be in the minority here on the site, but I have belief in him. I trust that he'll turn this around and have us challenging once again. I have seen enough in him these past few months to suggest to me that he has the mental strength as an individual, and man-management and tactical nous as a manager, to get us competitive again. We've seen glimpses of it over these two legs against Bayern; I believe there's more to come.
I know. I think some are looking for positives but that's not good enough.
Listening to him now - "struggling to strike a ball..." And still kept him on!? feck me.
@DTguardian: Moyes says Bayern's first goal "our crime . . I've a team of experienced players and it's the sort of thing you learn as a schoolboy."
Goes on to say Wayne was struggling to strike the ball !!
Goes on to say Wayne was struggling to strike the ball !!
The final few league games, what exactly will those tell you after he's already failed miserably in the previous 30+ games?
I have to say that there have been moments in the last few weeks when you wondered if there was some lucidity coming into Moyes' tactical decisions, especially at home vs Bayern Edit:Olympiakos, when using Wellbeck as a false left winger (as someone on here said) paid dividends for him. But the tactics tonight were all sorts of wrong.
He played Wellbeck up front, with Rooney behind and Kagawa wide left. That's just daft. By far the better option would be to have Danny on the left, Kagawa at no. 10 and Rooney up front. Danny had the beating of them for pace last week and I'd loved to have seen him going up against Lahm, another fast player. Kagawa showed over this last week that if given the ball he has the touch, balance and vision to play no. 10. Rooney had a shocker tonight, but at least as no. 9 you're relying on the simpler aspects of his game - running and shooting, rather than touch control and vision. Now Mata is finding his feet, Rooney's abilities as a number 10 have been baldly exposed.
Instead he plays Kagawa left, Danny up front and Rooney no. 10 - why?
As far as I can tell there can only be one of two reasons - either that he doesn't trust his players to play good counter attacking football, or he doesn't trust good counter attacking football itself. I don't expect to dominate possession - its going to be 25% possession whether we win, lose or draw. But that doesn't mean you can't counter attack with intelligence. Kagawa showed all night that he has a cute enough first touch to make a smidgen of space even when things are tight, and if you give him Rooney, Wellback and Valencia taking turns making runs from different angles, he'll find them
Moyes tactics tonight were essentially hoof it long to Danny, then hope that either a) he gets a lucky bounce or b) that he holds the ball up long enough to bring people in. However that means Rooney does - what? Not sure, no point playing a no. 10 if your midfielders and defenders are playing it long all the time. And Kagawa was on the left because..? No idea. He lacks the pace or power to push past a full back and join into balls played back from a striker holding up the ball.
That, I'm afraid, is not good enough for Man United. Sitting back and playing rope-a-dope is fine by me. But when you come off the ropes and strike, you have to hurt the opposition. He may not be totally to blame for the make up of the squad right now, but he has to use the talent available to him.
There have been many things that have gone against Moyes this year, but I still feel that he has just had too many games where his in game tactics and decision making have contributed appreciably to our failure.
He played Wellbeck up front, with Rooney behind and Kagawa wide left. That's just daft. By far the better option would be to have Danny on the left, Kagawa at no. 10 and Rooney up front. Danny had the beating of them for pace last week and I'd loved to have seen him going up against Lahm, another fast player. Kagawa showed over this last week that if given the ball he has the touch, balance and vision to play no. 10. Rooney had a shocker tonight, but at least as no. 9 you're relying on the simpler aspects of his game - running and shooting, rather than touch control and vision. Now Mata is finding his feet, Rooney's abilities as a number 10 have been baldly exposed.
Instead he plays Kagawa left, Danny up front and Rooney no. 10 - why?
As far as I can tell there can only be one of two reasons - either that he doesn't trust his players to play good counter attacking football, or he doesn't trust good counter attacking football itself. I don't expect to dominate possession - its going to be 25% possession whether we win, lose or draw. But that doesn't mean you can't counter attack with intelligence. Kagawa showed all night that he has a cute enough first touch to make a smidgen of space even when things are tight, and if you give him Rooney, Wellback and Valencia taking turns making runs from different angles, he'll find them
Moyes tactics tonight were essentially hoof it long to Danny, then hope that either a) he gets a lucky bounce or b) that he holds the ball up long enough to bring people in. However that means Rooney does - what? Not sure, no point playing a no. 10 if your midfielders and defenders are playing it long all the time. And Kagawa was on the left because..? No idea. He lacks the pace or power to push past a full back and join into balls played back from a striker holding up the ball.
That, I'm afraid, is not good enough for Man United. Sitting back and playing rope-a-dope is fine by me. But when you come off the ropes and strike, you have to hurt the opposition. He may not be totally to blame for the make up of the squad right now, but he has to use the talent available to him.
There have been many things that have gone against Moyes this year, but I still feel that he has just had too many games where his in game tactics and decision making have contributed appreciably to our failure.
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I highly doubt that, if he was to get sacked then it will in May, when the season is finished, not now
and why exactly did he play for the full 90 minutes then? Have we become Moyes-Rooney FC?
When the scousers were terrible they'd always go on little runs at the end of the season, when they were playing for pride against teams with nothing to play for, and they'd always use it as proof that they were on the right track.
That's a silly way to go in my eyes. The damage has been done, the season is basically over. Let's just get shot of him now.
And follows it up with how vital a player he is. But surely, a player who struggles to strike a ball cannot be our best option. It would mean that all our squad options are beyond shite.
I feel he got the tactics right, but I'm finding it difficult to be positive regarding a manger who hopes we can qualify for the Champions League next season. The Bayern tie ultimately played into Moyes' comfort zone, lets not forget that. He has forever set his side up to be hard to beat, I'm unsure he deserves overly positive reviews over the two legs, not as Manchester United manager. I'm pretty sick at the moment to be honest, our club has digressed massively over the past season. So much so that it would be considered positive by many if we were to finish fourth next season. I hope we begin next season with a new manager, I really do.
Why wait for May? Are there any benefits?
Imagine we win them all in convincing manner with Moyes playing the best possible formation. I know it's very very unlikely but still there are a few games and it'd be nice to go on a (pointless) winning run.
He has had 70 million to improve the champions of England and he is just about going to scrape us in he top 7.
It is a total failure, Pulis, Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce could have all bettered that quite easily!
No matter how much "rebuilding" is required he has been an absolute disaster.
It is a total failure, Pulis, Allardyce, Hughes, Bruce could have all bettered that quite easily!
No matter how much "rebuilding" is required he has been an absolute disaster.
Yeah I'm not quite sure what those final games have to do with anything, you judge him on the games that matter, not the ones that mean nothing because you already fecked up the ones that did.
Did well over the two legs but that doesn't stop me still wanting him out, we're a shambles against the top teams and that's mostly down to Moyes.
That'd just be another false dawn.
Let me get this straight: we were supposed to lose this tie 8-0 on aggregate through Moyes' incompetence (and he'd be vilified for it) but when we've actually put up a very good show against arguably the best side in the world (and maybe could've progressed), Moyes still gets flak for lowering our expectations?
Sounds legit.
You couldn't make it up! Moyes gets criticism for "lowering our expectations" yet the only people here expecting us to get hammered were the anti-Moyes lot.
Wankers.
Sounds legit.
You couldn't make it up! Moyes gets criticism for "lowering our expectations" yet the only people here expecting us to get hammered were the anti-Moyes lot.
Wankers.
I've a feeling those 4 would have done a better job. Hughes certainly did at City.
I know I didn't express what I truly meant, if Moyes is to be given a chance then he has to do his best to get the best possible results out of the remaining matches. I personally would applaud him getting fired if we win all the remaining matches. I just can't bear watching him as the coach.
someone talking sense at last...
We played hoofball in the last leg and Moyes was largely credited for it because we got a favourable result. Why is it rubbish again now that we lost? Hoofball isn't the kind of football Manchester United should be playing regularly, though granted I can appreciate its tenacity and it has its place. We're a better side when we soak up the pressure and apply the quick counter, I think. At worst, we're more exciting to watch that way.
And I still would want to see the back of him tbh. He could win all the games that I will not change my opinion of him this season.
He has to take blame for not sorting out the midfield and the defence last summer, which left us with tired, ageing legs through the competition. Going into his first year as the manager of Manchester United and not sorting vital areas out is absolutely terrible and he basically cripple himself from the word go.
You're right, he shouldn't get criticised for tonight's fixture. He and the team aren't cut out for Guardiola's Bayern and he did well to keep it respectable.
What he does deserve criticism for is taking us to 7th having spent £70m.
I think the board will give him the last few games to prove himself, whether we agree with it or not.
7th in the league and out of all cups. What other manager would not receive the overwhelming share of blame for such a clusterf&$k of a season?
I'd be happier if he didn't change the team so often - not all changes have been down to injury, or because a player is out of form. You could say that some of the worst performers have been in the team far more than they deserved to be.
We did well tonight, and Evra's goal was superb - pity he wasn't so good at keeping up with Robben, which Buttner did well last week.
We did well tonight, and Evra's goal was superb - pity he wasn't so good at keeping up with Robben, which Buttner did well last week.
I'm not sure what people expected tonight.
The two teams are worlds apart - one side comfortable in possession and every player capable of passing the ball and staying calm. The other, the total opposite.
Criticise Moyes all you like but I sympathise with him. Players incapable of keeping the ball, defenders backing off or not marking their man as well as they should. Consistently coughing up possession.
We were beaten by a much better team with more quality. We need to address that gap.
The big issue for me is that we've been like this against the top sides regularly for the last few years - since Barca dominated possession against us in that first CL final and we still have no idea how to stop it. Be it tactical or by bringing in better ball players we need to find a way.
Yeah he made mistakes but you got to judge him as a developing manager over the course of the season and how much he has learned from his own mistakes. His transfer strategy can be evaluated once he gets another crack at it. The tactics and team selection are all we can look at now.
The thing is, this wasn't some one off chance for Moyes to show what he can do against the big boys. This was his last chance to rescue something, anything from a season that's been completely disastrous. The season is now over. Completely over. Before May.
When the dust settles from any weird semblance of heroic defeat, the cold hard facts of the matter are that he probably merits the sack. By most standards.
He won't get it. And he might, possibly still grow into the job. But he couldn't complain if he was.
When the dust settles from any weird semblance of heroic defeat, the cold hard facts of the matter are that he probably merits the sack. By most standards.
He won't get it. And he might, possibly still grow into the job. But he couldn't complain if he was.
My bad, meant to say Olympiakos regarding Danny Welllbeck from the left, not Bayern - now edited.
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