If we dont make top four, he will have to go. The business cannot afford the hemorrhaging of revenue that would inevitably happen. There is still that massive debt to service you know.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Right, it's settled then. Thanks for clearing it up. Fourth or he's gone.
Unless you were being subtly sarcastic there - with your quotation marks round NOT?
Out of interest, though: If Arsenal win the league and Spurs end up in 4th - does the same apply? Hypothetically, of course.
Yeah, he's asked the players to park that idea, while he gets to work forming, norming and storming a new cross-functional project team, roll out planned for 1Q14. .
The most amusing part of this is the elevation of Phelan from Phelan the moron, to Phelan the martyr.
As Neville just said on Sky - a lot more players will go at United before David Moyes, he'll be given time.
I know I sounds like an impatient glory hunter.
But take that "We're United and we gave SAF time and look where he got us" specs off.
Fergie is a proven winner (at that time with Aberdeen, achieving a big feat at that time), he came as a winner, he took a relegation team into winners in 5 years, with some improvement visible along the way)
Moyes took a team with 3 world class player, reigning champion, 75k stadium, worldwide recognition, and collective players with numerous winners medal. There is absolutely no excuse for finishing below 4th. We are Manchester United, we never set lower than 3rd for 2 decades, and is it too much to ask for the new manager to at least make it top 4.
IMHO we have been very very very reasonable for setting the target as it is , top 4. I don't think anyone of us here sets any target in CL bar getting pass the group round. Most of us here understand and prepared to lower our expectation alot to give Moyes the benefits of doubt, but surely there's a limit to that?
Answer this, it is a genuine question : "At what point would you consider Moyes is not the right man for the job?" and the next question "should that point reached well before his 6 years is up, do you think we should persist with him?"
Mourinho, Klopp, Guardiola are the three most coveted rising star at the moment, but I believe if they sent their respective teams into 4th position (after what they have achieved last year), they will still get the sack.
It is not that I hate Moyes, but it is the nature of the job, you have to deliver or you're simply not good enough. We can factor in some considerations (tough fixtures, bad luck with injuries, flukey goals, bad refing, etc) but when you're too far below the expectation, it simply means you're not good enough.
Different era, different team, different managers.
I don't think anyone has said he should go now. We're all willing to give him time as long as results aren't calamitous. And for United at this stage finishing 5th(or lower) at the end of the season would be calamitous.
Furthermore, if he didn't get top 4, it will only goes uphill from there
No top 4 = No CL
No CL = Further discontent among our world class player (no doubt Rooney would want to use that as an excuse), not to mention it will be getting harder to attract potential talent, especially with the rising number of club with blank cheque
No Star Player = Decrease in quality, making it harder to compete the next year, and so on and so forth.
It could get pretty much downward spiral from there on, and although it sounds doom and gloom, but it really doesn't take much for that to happen. See Liverpool and how long it takes for them to get back on track after Souness.
No top 4 = No CL
No CL = Further discontent among our world class player (no doubt Rooney would want to use that as an excuse), not to mention it will be getting harder to attract potential talent, especially with the rising number of club with blank cheque
No Star Player = Decrease in quality, making it harder to compete the next year, and so on and so forth.
It could get pretty much downward spiral from there on, and although it sounds doom and gloom, but it really doesn't take much for that to happen. See Liverpool and how long it takes for them to get back on track after Souness.
No we were efficient, not exciting, maybe rather lucky at times as well. As you say the midfield has been a problem for a while and even Sir Alex neglected it. Hopefully the owners will realise it is going to take some serious money to put it right.
We should support Moyes for quite some time as long as he keeps us in the European Cup, if we finish outside of top 4 he's toast.
Fifth isn't acceptable.
I'm not quite sure about that either though. Fair enough if he comes 4th in his first season, but how long is quite a long time? Surely if he finishes 4th three times in a row for example, he'd have to go?
I keep reading this, but to who? The Board or you as a fan? You have no idea what they expect, or are willing to tolerate.
For the average supporter, maybe. We don't know what are the minimum expectations from the board itself.
Yeah, I would think so. However, I don't think anyone should be talking about sacking anyone at this time.
Of course not. It's way too soon and he has to be given plenty of time. Most of the discussion at the moment is hypothetical considering the poor start we've had.
So when he came he didnt take Fergies advice and changed the backroom staff.
He then said the squad was good enough. That later changed to we needing more players to we are few world class players short. Then the whole debacle with the transfers.
He is just saying everything in public when it might be wiser to keep something private.
So far it's not been great.
He then said the squad was good enough. That later changed to we needing more players to we are few world class players short. Then the whole debacle with the transfers.
He is just saying everything in public when it might be wiser to keep something private.
So far it's not been great.
Don't you bore yourself hammering away the same negativity ad nauseum in this thread?
In fairness, the press are very good at making mountains out of molehills every time he speaks. I don't think he's said anything overly controversial - in comparison to Fergie, he's been quite vanilla.
Do you need to coach in the CL to notice that players like Valencia, Young and Ando are nowhere near to the likes of Iniesta, Muller, Ribery, Xavi etc?
Who signed those players again...?
Who cares? We're discussing on whether Moyes has the necessary experience to judge whether this team can win the CL or not.
To be fair. I doubt whether the club is prepared to spend the necessary money to get the best players on board.
Moyes was never going to jettison squad players so early in his reign, especially since the club were unable to bring many bodies in. Sales will happen next summer, but I've no issue with the fact that Moyes tried to maintain stability in terms of the playing squad.
Every time a managerial change happens it gives the players a new start and they might get opportunities that they wouldn't have got under the previous manager. So far it's maybe been Nani for us who was frozen out a bit last season.
He did tried to inject some real quality by bringing players like Fabregas and/or Ander Herrera. I am sure that we would have had more creativity with players like them. Baines on the other hand would have provided us with the right cover/competition for Evra. Considering that he gave Nani and Rooney a chance to resurrect their career at OT, the team would have been pretty competitive indeed.
The fact is, Moyes was never going to sell Young, Valencia and Anderson this summer, especially since we were so impotent in the summer transfer window. Devilish was using their continued presence in our squad to criticise Moyes' judgement - that's a bit pathetic given that all three players were bought in by Ferguson. How do we know Moyes doesn't agree and is planning to ditch them all...?
Edit - I think I may have misinterpreted what Devilish is saying; if so, apologies.
Oh wait a minute where did I did that? I criticized Moyes decisions in not utilizing Fabio, Kagawa and Evans ahead of Young, Buttner and an off form Rio but that's all about that. I can understand Moyes for not selling the dead wood since he wasn't able to bring the players he wanted. He may start using the likes of Zaha and Januzaj more (instead of giving games to the 40 yr old player and average players like Young) but that's all about it
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...s-not-going-anywhere-for-at-least-three-years
Apart from the 3-4 year thing I share Gaz view.
Apart from the 3-4 year thing I share Gaz view.
What is happening? We have a new manager and we've had a bad start. We've played far worse at times under SAF so I'm not concerned yet, and endlessly picking over every word Moyes says and criticising every decision to me seems a waste of time and energy.
Yeah, sorry, check back to the post - I put an edit at the bottom saying sorry for misreading you.
Alright, I'll try: I will consider that Moyes is not the right man for the job when he has shown clear signs that he is not over a sustained period of time. What these signs may be time will have to tell: I would seriously start to doubt him if we continue to play poor football with poor results when the player material at his disposal does not, as it were, justify this. I would also start to doubt him if he persists with bringing in the wrong type of players. Our model clearly allows him to be in charge of who we bring in, that is a given, so judging him there should be easy enough. If it should turn out that everybody's favourite, Woodward, is not up to the task at all - then Moyes will have to demand a change in that department. That shouldn't be a problem: The board should have no qualms giving Woody the boot if he simply can't do the job properly.
How long, you say? Well, that naturally depends. If Moyes has not shaped a team in his own image - to put it RAWKishly and biblically - capable of challenging for the major trophies in three years, I'd say he has blown his chance. We are not obliged to let him see out his contract in my opinion. We are a huge club, results must come at some point. But the transition may take longer than the more impatient of our fans would like. He may have to reshape the mammoth organization that is United somewhat to make it work under him: This could easily take more than one season, more than two seasons too. So, yeah - we should give him at least three years unless he completely disqualifies himself along the way.
This is my opinion, though. I have no idea whether the Glazers would be willing to go a couple of seasons without CL football. I think they should, though, if worst comes to worst. Because given the state of our domestic rivals it could be necessary. Could be, I stress. Arsenal and Spurs may remain safely behind us during this transition period, Liverpool may remain comfortably mediocre, all this is possible too: And then it won't be a huge issue, will it? We'll finish snugly enough within the top four no matter what - and Moyes will have a far milder climate to work within.
Not winning the title with this squad makes him not as good as Sir Alex. Not finishing in top 4 with the squad who has easily won the title last season makes him a terrible manager. We can only hope that this doesn't happen but if it happens I would be amazed to see Moyes managing United next season (or any other club in the short future).
http://www1.skysports.com/football/...s-not-going-anywhere-for-at-least-three-years
Gaz: Spot on. feckin' Gaz, that's my boy.
One of the things he says here is too underplayed in all this, if I may say so: Moyes is learning. That was always a part of the deal itself. He needs to get things right - they won't be from the start. He hasn't managed one of the biggest football clubs in the world before - we all knew this, the board and Fergie knew it when they gave him the job. Some feck-ups along the way were inevitable. And more are probably to come. This is where patience comes in. I've banged on about this for weeks now - but if he is the right man for the job, this won't show itself right away: It can't, it's not how it bloody works: He has the potential to become a great manager - that's why he was given the job, not because he already is one in every conceivable aspect.
Gaz: Spot on. feckin' Gaz, that's my boy.
One of the things he says here is too underplayed in all this, if I may say so: Moyes is learning. That was always a part of the deal itself. He needs to get things right - they won't be from the start. He hasn't managed one of the biggest football clubs in the world before - we all knew this, the board and Fergie knew it when they gave him the job. Some feck-ups along the way were inevitable. And more are probably to come. This is where patience comes in. I've banged on about this for weeks now - but if he is the right man for the job, this won't show itself right away: It can't, it's not how it bloody works: He has the potential to become a great manager - that's why he was given the job, not because he already is one in every conceivable aspect.
I don't know why Rodgers have to be put in this discussion. He took a mediocre Liverpool side (thanks to his two predecessors) with a lot of shit players who were in big wages and who hasn't been in Champions in the last three years (and haven't won the title in more than two decades). Saying that the situation of Moyes not finishing in top 4 with the squad who won 5 of the last 7 titles deserves the same punishment as not winning the title with Liverpool (Pogue) is not comparable.
At least this might make for an interesting January.
Aaaaaaaaarrrghhh! Or something like that.
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