You're right, keeping RVP, Fabregas, Song and Nasri wouldn't have improved them at all.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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You're right, keeping RVP, Fabregas, Song and Nasri wouldn't have improved them at all.
I don't like the we lack star quality to win mentality he is going with. If he doesn't like the squad he inherited he is free to cut and sign players at his choosing but to go public with this doesn't do anyone any good.
I am in no way judging him a failure, it's way too early for that BUT it's also way too early for him to start making excuses on why we can't win this and that. He needs to get his starting XI sorted and focus on finishing top 4 - no one expect anything more.
You're enjoying this way too much. I don't like it.
Holy fecking shit! How do you face the terror of getting out of bed in the morning!
Christ, all the crazies (and dippers) come out when United lose a game or two. They usually piss off eventually though.
Not at all. I don't think we will finish outside the top four but I'd be opposed to sacking Moyes if we did on account of it being a stupid thing to do!
It's more than a hint, in my opinion.
Every interview he does he seems to be either making an excuse, lowering expectations or distancing himself from any blame. Just the same way that Hodgson did.
And why not? It will be more than a month before it's even theoretically possible for you to overtake us on points for same number of games played.
And why not? It will be more than a month before it's even theoretically possible for you to overtake us on points for same number of games played.
Don't be getting too giddy just yet, mate.
Not in yours, though - eh? Nice save, as they say.
You're like a man jumping up and down, flailing his arms wildly, sobbing hysterically, shouting: "I'm not panicking, I'm not panicking, I'm not panicking...!!!"
Six points from the next two games (palace at home, newcastle away) and I am proclaiming the title challenge ON.
I think it's all a bit ott personally. I think he's definitely had some questionable decisions and I think he could have done more to increase his options for this tough runs he's been through but at the same time he has been hindered by a very tough rough of games when his squad options were limited by a fair few players being injured/lacking sharpness.
The scoring from open play thing is just one of those things that happens. A couple years ago we had own goals as a massive contributor to our season and we all know that Valencia and young as the two more frequently used players haven't really been providing enough creatively so that's been an issue but with nani and kagawa available and the emergence of Januzaj that should change.
Defensively there have been issues but thats been a problem in general in recent years. Part of the problem has been get reliance on rio and vidic that was somewhat forced due to injury and somewhat due to moyes not knowing yet how to manage their fitness, that should come with time an he return of Evans boosts his options there.
On the whole though I don't think there's anything to really panic over. Rooney is playing his best in a while, nani has come back and is looking dangerous and kagawa for me had been showing enough to suggest he will fit in well. Rvp hasn't hit form yet but is still scoring. I think those 4 can an will be an excellent attack.
Defence is an issue but we've got both rafael and Evans back now which should boost us defensively and offensively. I'm sure there are slight differences between how moyes wants to defend and fergie which takes a bit of time to implement.
Midfield still needs attention, we all know that. It's not good enough for me to conquer Europe without a strong team performance and some luck. However it is more than good enough for the league. Fellaini has been disappointing this far but again it can take time to adapt.
I think we'll have a better idea at Xmas where I think we'll be back on track personally.
The scoring from open play thing is just one of those things that happens. A couple years ago we had own goals as a massive contributor to our season and we all know that Valencia and young as the two more frequently used players haven't really been providing enough creatively so that's been an issue but with nani and kagawa available and the emergence of Januzaj that should change.
Defensively there have been issues but thats been a problem in general in recent years. Part of the problem has been get reliance on rio and vidic that was somewhat forced due to injury and somewhat due to moyes not knowing yet how to manage their fitness, that should come with time an he return of Evans boosts his options there.
On the whole though I don't think there's anything to really panic over. Rooney is playing his best in a while, nani has come back and is looking dangerous and kagawa for me had been showing enough to suggest he will fit in well. Rvp hasn't hit form yet but is still scoring. I think those 4 can an will be an excellent attack.
Defence is an issue but we've got both rafael and Evans back now which should boost us defensively and offensively. I'm sure there are slight differences between how moyes wants to defend and fergie which takes a bit of time to implement.
Midfield still needs attention, we all know that. It's not good enough for me to conquer Europe without a strong team performance and some luck. However it is more than good enough for the league. Fellaini has been disappointing this far but again it can take time to adapt.
I think we'll have a better idea at Xmas where I think we'll be back on track personally.
I don't begrudge you guys a few weeks of living in lala land.
How it would be stupid? If we get relegated would it be stupid to sack him too? Because, you know Fergie had six years, so if we give the same time to Moyes, he'll become as good as Fergie.
Were Liverpool stupid to sack Hodgson or should they have gave him more time, because giving the manager a lot of time by default means that he'll do good.
It will be criminal if we don't get an UCL position, and if this happens (I still think that we'll be in top 4 but for the first time since I watch United, I am not sure anymore about it) the only stupid thing would be to let Moyes be still our manager.
Still don't understand how people are happy with Moyes staying if we finish fifth - that'd be staggering collapse.
If Chelsea or Bayern drop four places, Guardiola or Mourinho would be sacked.
If Chelsea or Bayern drop four places, Guardiola or Mourinho would be sacked.
They would be sacked long before that. Chelsea wouldn't wait until the end of season to see if they finish in the top four.
I'm sure the players bear responsibility, but the buck stops with Moyes. So he can't motivate the players, what does he bring to the table? What has he won? What's his football philosophy? What's his vision - are we struggling because he's trying to impose a new playing style? Are his tactics innovative? Can he handle the media? I haven't seen anything that gives me comfort about the man. And since you mentioned the City match, he made one substitution after we went down 4-0.
If United's hierarchy followed your school of thought Sir Alex would not have been around for a few decades.
I don't think relegation is particularly likely but actually if it did happen, personally I wouldn't sack Moyes. I'm long enough in the tooth to remember the last time we got relegated and it wasn't nice but it would have been a hell of a lot worse if we'd sacked Tommy Docherty as a result of it. People seem to think that there is a ready pool of top managers who are able to cope with managing Manchester United. There isn't. Whoever got the job was going to have to learn how to do it and if someone takes over from Moyes, whatever his reputation, he'll have to learn too. Sacking Moyes for finishing outside the top four (something I really don't believe will happen) would be stupid because whoever replaces him will be back to square one.
Moyes' record is 5 wins, 3 losses and a draw people. Give it at least a season before pointing fingers.
If Moyes would have been Aston Villa coach (who were a Champions League winner some decades ago, similar to United where Sir Alex took the team in the last position on the table) a lot of time should have been given to him in order to return them back to top. But at the current champion, I don't think so. Not challenging for the title would be a big dissapointment, not getting the fourth place must be un-acceptable.
Exactly.
A tad different there mate. Fergie took over when we were second from bottom (I think) in the league, Moyes took over a team of Champions so I think the absolute minimum if a top 4.
Exactly. I think it's mostly the older United fans who watched us when we were shit in the 80's and want to make the glory hunting younger fans feel bad about not being born around that time.
The fact is, it's a different era now, we're one of the biggest clubs in the world and 5th just wouldn't be acceptable with this squad. It's not being spoilt to at least expect a top four finish. It'd be a disaster if we didn't at least pull that off.
i can literally draw no similarities between moyes and hodgson. i cant believe thats caught on.
Sacking Moyes if he cannot send us to Champions for me is the right thing to do, because it means that Moyes is a bad manager at top level. Heck, even Roberto Mancini wouldn't have big problems securing a top 4 spot with this team, and if Moyes cannot send us there, I think that are tens of managers who can.
About your first line, I find your point admirable about the loyalty, but on the other side completely wrong. It won't happen though, it was more a hypothetical doom scenario. If that would happen, I don't think that Moyes would ever manage a squad in his lifetime, let alone United.
What I don't get is why it is taking so long for our players to grasp any new tactics. Joe Royle has just been on Talksport saying how well Everton have adjusted to Martinez's passing game and that defensively how good they are. Everton were good defensively under Moyes, he said good players can always adjust easily. So are our players a bit thick or not wanting to change? Why has our defence gone to wrong? This is a criticism of the players not the manager.
Why would anyone want to make someone feel bad about not being old? More to the point why would anyone feel bad about not being old?!?
Of all the crackpot ideas since Fergie retired and this place went all divisive and hysterical, that's right up there...
Of all the crackpot ideas since Fergie retired and this place went all divisive and hysterical, that's right up there...
Ok so taking a title winning squad to fifth the very next season would be an achievement according to you?
Impossible to know without seeing the trainings. If we want to speculate I think that Moyes is trying to set them play percentage football, which can't go well considering how different are our players from our style. I base this on his Everton team and tactics, and his coaches (and the drop on form to several of our best technical players like RVP and Carrick), but yes, it's speculation.
Of course. The debate was if Moyes fails to send us to Champions League, what should happen. Not if we are at any time of the season (like now) outside of top 4.
We haven't significantly changed our playing style. Defence - a manager can hardly legislate for individual mistakes.
There have been a bunch of posts in recent days from more older posters that they would have wished for some of our 'glory hunter' fans to have been borned and watch us play when we weren't doing that good.
Therefore all managers should be given at least 6 years in any club in the off-chance one of them turns out to be Fergie...
I was joking. I just find it weird that some posters have almost excepted mediocrity just because SAF has retired. I highly doubt the man himself shares the same attitude.
It depends... if we finish fifth but the team is playing great by the end of season, finally getting what Moyes wanted from them, wouldn't be that bad.
Of course next season we would have to go win the europa league and the league.
anyway, its still a long way to go.
Surely that's a debate when, and if that happens.
You wonder if the training has been too intense for them too soon and it is taking it toll on some at the moment. People have said they look lethargic. Everton always seemed to start slowly but were strong the 2nd half. Maybe that is when they training method really kick in.
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