Moyes So Far!

[bobbyf]

Just to be clear-I think standing by Moyes as Fergie said to do is not incompatible with believing that Moyes is largely (but not solely) responsible for this season's disappointing results.

Seems like the two get conflated. Whether Fergie's remarks show that he expected things to get bad or not-he said stand by your manager. There's no ambiguity there. But-I think it's hard to argue that Moyes has done a good job this year, even grading him on a curve.

There's bad and there's outright disastrous, which is what this season has been. He has taken the champions below Everton in one season and he's not solely to blame for that? That is 100% down to his management and grounds for sacking on its own, nevermind finishing way outside the top 4.

SAF should take some blame for recommending him, cos how could he expect players who challenge every season to work with such an inferior manager? Nobody would expect a new manager to carry on as if SAF hadn't left, but this season has been beyond disappointing.

 

[Sir Matt]

Spoiler

Excerpt from Rooney's book. And by Rooney I mean his ghostwriter.

 

[stevoc]

Spoiler

Excerpt from Rooney's book. And by Rooney I mean his ghostwriter.

Yeah seems to be the same views on moyes training methods from a few different sources now.

If true everything seems to be pointing towards more focus on physical training than working with the ball, and boy has that showed in performances this season.

Do our players seem fitter than previous seasons though?

 

[KeninDC]

There's bad and there's outright disastrous, which is what this season has been. He has taken the champions below Everton in one season and he's not solely to blame for that? That is 100% down to his management and grounds for sacking on its own, nevermind finishing way outside the top 4.

SAF should take some blame for recommending him, cos how could he expect players who challenge every season to work with such an inferior manager? Nobody would expect a new manager to carry on as if SAF hadn't left, but this season has been beyond disappointing.

Bobby-Agree. I was trying to address the Stand by Your Manager thingie which, I think, has been mis-interpreted by some as a wink and nod towards telling everyone that the squad was in bad shape, and there would be trouble this year. So you get people saying, Fergie himself told us this year would be bad--as some rationale for getting Moyes off of the hook for this year's dire results.

Even if one thinks Moyes should get more time because of what Fergie said (and I'm absolutely not of that frame of mind), that doesn't mean one can't admit that Moyes has done a terrible job this year. What it does mean is that someone believing Moyes needs more time will correct whatever mistakes he made.

That some people still do not think this season's results are not mainly due to Moyes is a little much for me to understand. That could be (not for me) a separate issue for any rationale for keeping him on.

 

[Empire]

Yeah seems to be the same views on moyes training methods from a few different sources now.

If true everything seems to be pointing towards more focus on physical training than working with the ball, and boy has that showed in performances this season.

Do our players seem fitter than previous seasons though?

Actually this is why I thought we would be in our element against Bayern although I wasn't expecting much however I did think we could avoid the slaughter.

Physical fitness wasn't going to be an issue, we would be more used to running without the ball than doing things with it. In fact, if Bayern gave us the ball we would only lose it and get hit on the counter. The training would also give us the mental strength to remain disciplined and make things tough for Bayern as well as the organisation and structure to build the great wall of Manchester in front of that goal.

Interestingly Moyes has done well against teams outside of the top 8 therefore we can be confident in his ability to beat the lesser quality teams. That said, he has struggled against the better sides and I think this might partly be due to the team's natural attacking tendencies. We have had a fair bit of the ball actually yet done little with it, this then begs the question, could he build a defensive unit that could consistently get very good results against the better sides?

For instance, instead of letting Liverpool play on the counter, would it have been better to be defensively solid in order to stop them from playing, and then hit on a very fast break to expose their attacking full backs. People would complain inevitably because it is defensive tactics at Old Trafford but it would have given us a much better chance of winning.

If David is to stay he must just go ahead and build what he knows. We have seen he can break down the teams of a lesser quality therefore against the top 8 or so, I think he can do fine playing on the counter.

 

[Ubik]

That's the part I doubt. I think Moyes' 11 years showed there is only so far that kind of football can take you. At some point you have to aspire to be better.

Agreed. It was pointed out earlier that Everton had been on an improving run in the last 3 seasons, but this was after a further 3 seasons of declining from their previous high point (in terms of points) of 07/08, which Martinez is on course to beat this season. Aside from the one season Everton got 4th, they otherwise haven't got within 8 points of it (they were 8 points off in his first season in charge, and they were 9 points off in 08/09 and 09/10). In that one commendable season where they got there, the threshold for achieving 4th was at its lowest point for Moyes' tenure, Liverpool getting 58 points to Everton's 61 (Allardyce's Bolton also got 58). Ignoring the other two not so good seasons he had with them, in general they were about 10 points from getting there. At the beginning, in the middle, and at the end. He stabilised them brilliantly, no question, but he couldn't move them any further forward. His first season was comparable to his 10th.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Bobby-Agree. I was trying to address the Stand by Your Manager thingie which, I think, has been mis-interpreted by some as a wink and nod towards telling everyone that the squad was in bad shape, and there would be trouble this year. So you get people saying, Fergie himself told us this year would be bad--as some rationale for getting Moyes off of the hook for this year's dire results.

Even if one thinks Moyes should get more time because of what Fergie said (and I'm absolutely not of that frame of mind), that doesn't mean one can't admit that Moyes has done a terrible job this year. What it does mean is that someone believing Moyes needs more time will correct whatever mistakes he made.

That some people still do not think this season's results are not mainly due to Moyes is a little much for me to understand. That could be (not for me) a separate issue for any rationale for keeping him on.

Fergie's comment may be nothing more than a generic old "be nice to the new bloke" sort of thing. He'd hardly instruct the crowd not to stand by their new manager.

But it's also possible that he did foresee a rough patch. He said, a little over a year ago, that he would've struggled himself if he had been coming in at this point, given what a monster United have become.

Lastly, it's also possible that Fergie foresaw a rough patch regardless of what state the squad was in. "Trouble" doesn't necessarily equal "squad in bad shape".

 

[LR7]

Moyes after Fulham at home: "You could use maybe mental softness that we didn't see the job out and get the job done. I would agree with that."

Moyes today: "You can never question the character of Manchester United. It's ingrained in the club & has shown its strength at times this year."

Tune changed.
He saved us from our mental softness. Where would we be without him?

 

[KeninDC]

Fergie's comment may be nothing more than a generic old "be nice to the new bloke" sort of thing. He'd hardly instruct the crowd not to stand by their new manager.

But it's also possible that he did foresee a rough patch. He said, a little over a year ago, that he would've struggled himself if he had been coming in at this point, given what a monster United have become.

Lastly, it's also possible that Fergie foresaw a rough patch regardless of what state the squad was in. "Trouble" doesn't necessarily equal "squad in bad shape".

CLS--Sure-agree with everything you said. All I'm doing is suggesting that Fergie saying SBYM is not the same as saying-this year will be much worse than any of you could have reasonably expected. That this year is terrible still does not take away the SBYM message--if you take it to heart you don't care when things get rough--you give Moyes support.

Maybe I'm trying too hard to count angels on the head of a pin-but Fergie may be as surprised as any of us about United's season, even taking into account his remarks.

 

[stevoc]

Actually this is why I thought we would be in our element against Bayern although I wasn't expecting much however I did think we could avoid the slaughter.

Physical fitness wasn't going to be an issue, we would be more used to running without the ball than doing things with it. In fact, if Bayern gave us the ball we would only lose it and get hit on the counter. The training would also give us the mental strength to remain disciplined and make things tough for Bayern as well as the organisation and structure to build the great wall of Manchester in front of that goal.

Interestingly Moyes has done well against teams outside of the top 8 therefore we can be confident in his ability to beat the lesser quality teams. That said, he has struggled against the better sides and I think this might partly be due to the team's natural attacking tendencies. We have had a fair bit of the ball actually yet done little with it, this then begs the question, could he build a defensive unit that could consistently get very good results against the better sides?

For instance, instead of letting Liverpool play on the counter, would it have been better to be defensively solid in order to stop them from playing, and then hit on a very fast break to expose their attacking full backs. People would complain inevitably because it is defensive tactics at Old Trafford but it would have given us a much better chance of winning.

If David is to stay he must just go ahead and build what he knows. We have seen he can break down the teams of a lesser quality therefore against the top 8 or so, I think he can do fine playing on the counter.

If we played with a game plan similar to what we did against Bayern against the top half of the league this season, i have no doubt we would have more points and more than 2 wins in 15 vs the top 10, that is moyes strength setting a team up so they are hard to beat.

But is that style of play what Manchester United should be playing?

For me no which begs the question why did we hire a defensive minded manager.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

CLS--Sure-agree with everything you said. All I'm doing is suggesting that Fergie saying SBYM is not the same as saying-this year will be much worse than any of you could have reasonably expected. That this year is terrible still does not take away the SBYM message--if you take it to heart you don't care when things get rough--you give Moyes support.

Maybe I'm trying too hard to count angels on the head of a pin-but Fergie may be as surprised as any of us about United's season, even taking into account his remarks.

Things certainly could've been better! And Fergie would no doubt agree with that. We have struggled more than most of us predicted - and the buck stops with Moyes for that. But - and this is germane to the Martinez versus Moyes discussion too, I think - there are ups and down in this game beyond the particular qualities of any manager. We've had our share of injuries, perhaps even our share of rotten luck, etc. These factors play a part too - at least if you're trying to look at Moyes' tenure so far from a glass-half-full perspective.

For some Fergie's words will serve as a convenient cop-out. Moyes was chosen, we stand behind him, Fergie said so. And that's that. But those are in a minority, I think. Most pro Moyes folk don't see it that way. If he can't turn this around come next season it won't matter what Fergie said or didn't say - it will be evident that whatever the plan was, it didn't work out (certainly not with Moyes in charge of executing it).

 

[KeninDC]

Things certainly could've been better! And Fergie would no doubt agree with that. We have struggled more than most of us predicted - and the buck stops with Moyes for that. But - and this is germane to the Martinez versus Moyes discussion too, I think - there are ups and down in this game beyond the particular qualities of any manager. We've had our share of injuries, perhaps even our share of rotten luck, etc. These factors play a part too - at least if you're trying to look at Moyes' tenure so far from a glass-half-full perspective.

For some Fergie's words will serve as a convenient cop-out. Moyes was chosen, we stand behind him, Fergie said so. And that's that. But those are in a minority, I think. Most pro Moyes folk don't see it that way. If he can't turn this around come next season it won't matter what Fergie said or didn't say - it will be evident that whatever the plan was, it didn't work out (certainly not with Moyes in charge of executing it).

Fair enough. I plead guilty to setting up a straw man to knock down. Also agree that Moyes will get more time--and then we'll see.

 

[Danny1982]

Another debate which has been done to death, but people are just presuming that Everton wouldn't have continued to improve had he stayed, even though their points total had been increasing year on year for the previous 3. And with a fast maturing Barkley and an on-loan £20m+ striker, who knows where they would have been this season under him?

I certainly wouldn't have been surprised to see them on a points total similar to what they're on now.

Do you notice how all of your predictions are just based on one main thing, which is defending Moyes?

When Moyes leaves a club and the club gets better, your prediction is: The club would have got better anyway if Moyes was still there.

When Moyes joins a club and the club gets much worse, your prediction is: The club would have got worse anyway if Moyes didn't join them.

It's a typical case of a conclusion leading to an argument, rather than an argument leading to a conclusion.

 

[A1X]

When we get knocked out by Bayern and it becomes obvious to even the most optimistic type that we're not going to be playing in Europe next season at all then I think some excrement may be aimed at the air conditioning.

 

[Danny1982]

The only period when we ever really had 'bad times' under Fergie was during his early years. And it is surely no coincidence that he references those early 'bad times' right before he implores the fans to stand by the new manager.

2001-2006 weren't exactly the highlight of his career. Where do you think that quote about his "greatest challenge" came from?

 

[Danny1982]

I'm pretty sure there is a simple/obvious interpretation, and that you just don't want to see it, because accepting the simple/obvious interpretation essentially involves having to say 'Well I don't care what Fergie thinks. Moyes is the wrong guy, doesn't deserve time, and should be sacked'.

It's ironic that you use this kind of logic being a Moyes fan yourself. Desperate times eh? You're trying to hide behind quotes that have multiple interpretations, when at the same you don't see any problem (nor does Moyes himself) in disagreeing with the great SAF on other crucial issues..

I'll re-post these quotes again to force you to read them..

"It was important to me to leave an organisation in the strongest possible shape and I believe I have done so. The quality of this league winning squad, and the balance of ages within it, bodes well for continued success at the highest level whilst the structure of the youth set-up will ensure that the long-term future of the club remains a bright one."

"To go through a thirty-eight game league programme and win it in style with a great bunch of players... it's a young squad, a lot of good young players. They're going to get better, a lot of them, and the big test is can they win it three times in a row as we've done before? I hope the boys can do that."

There is not even two ways to interpret these quotes. Very clear and direct assessment of our squad, which you and Moyes totally disagree with.

When SAF talked about standing by your manager at the bad times:

1- he didn't expect the bad times to come so soon, after he did all he could to leave the club in the best shape possible.

2- he didn't even expect the bad times to be this bad.

The comparison between now and when Fergie took over is clearly inaccurate. United were also relegated in 1974, so compared to that we should also accept that the club finish 15th in the league?

When SAF took over the club was a mess, to some extent. No discipline. A lot of drinking and smoking problems among the players. The club didn't have a great youth system... There were a lot of things that he needed to be sorted out before he can lead the club to success again. He deliberately didn't go for immediate success because he looked long term and wanted to build a foundation for a long term success, not a short term one. That's why he needed time, and the club at the time knew exactly what he was doing, which is why they gave him time.

In Moyes' case it's not even comparable. Moyes took over a great club that already possesses all what a club requires for a long term success. He doesn't need to waste time to do what SAF already did. The discipline in our club is already high. the players are top level. The youth system is great. Financially the club is stable and ready to give him all what he needs to compete with the richest clubs of the world...

There is simply no reason for Moyes not to succeed and start showing his qualities right away. He's not rebuilding anything. He's not adding anything to the club (apart from a bunch of ipads), and he's just wasting valuable time that will have a very negative effect on the club, and in a couple of years we might find ourselves at a point where our club will actually need rebuilding, because of him.

SAF didn't rebuild "the squad" before he succeeded, he rebuilt a whole club. Moyes doesn't need to do that, which why we should stop the stupid comparisons between Moyes, and the great SAF.

 

[Stack]

The circumstances are totally different. Ferguson walked into a sleeping giant that had perhaps grown comfortable in its status as a cup side. A first-team focused club with most players either not good enough or lacking basic personal discipline to achieve what they wanted to that required restructuring.

I don't see how any of that is relevant to the job David Moyes walked into. Where were the kids being given their chance in the league cup this year?

The relevance might be in here if you read it and take it in. I think the reason the poster quoted this was because he was making mention of Fergie having to get his head around the level of scrutiny and Moyes has to learn this to.

"I repeat, no manager is prepared for the job at Old Trafford. The directors and supporters are so lucky because they haven’t been at other clubs. I think it took me three or four years to understand fully the politics and requirements, the demands and pressures. For the first time in my life I felt my whole character and abilities were under scrutiny and that I was in a situation where my future would be decided not only by directors of the club, but also by supporters and the media."

 

[NessunDorma]

Do you notice how all of your predictions are just based on one main thing, which is defending Moyes?

I'm arguing that he should be given a bit more time to get it right, rather than defending his performance this season, which has been way below what most people - including me - expected. And 'Give him time' is nothing that Fergie and Charlton haven't said themselves.

When Moyes leaves a club and the club gets better, your prediction is: The club would have got better anyway if Moyes was still there.

I didn't say they definitely would've. I just pointed to the fact that they had been improving year on year for 3 seasons, and so seeing them continue to improve under Moyes wouldn't have been very surprising.

When Moyes joins a club and the club gets much worse, your prediction is: The club would have got worse anyway if Moyes didn't join them.

Maybe you're reading my posts with beer goggles on, because i've never said anything of the sort.

 

[Amir]

Again, Fergie took over a team that had only finished outside of the top four once in the previous 7 seven seasons, and then finished outside of the top four with them in three of his first four full seasons - including an 11th and a 13th, after spending what was big money for the day. We simply *did* get worse at first.

No, that's quite wrong. I don't think Fergie did magic in his first year and a half - he did inherit a good squad of players, though it was near the bottom - but things did NOT get worse at first. They got better. They were midtable by the time his first season ended - he arrived in November - and they were second in the league by the time his first full season ended. That's NOT 'becoming worse at first'.

Then the trouble started when he got to work on rebuilding the squad, shipped a lot of players out and got new ones in. That was a struggle. But Moyes hasn't even reached that stage yet. He's still got last year's team, with the additions of Mata, Fellaini, Januzaj and Fletcher.

I wish people stopped repeating this myth. There's just NO comparison between the two situations.

Now, do I accept getting the United job is a big task and it takes time to learn everything? Absolutely. Even though it may be more comfortable now with most of our board being American and not actually around on a daily basis. But when it comes down to basics - getting to the training ground, coaching the team, setting it up well - it shouldn't be that bloody difficult. It's still football. And that - the most important thing in a football club - is where Moyes has been lacking,

 

[Revan]

Again, I haven't denied that Martinez has improved them, simply pointed out that it's quite possible that Moyes would have improved them also, given that they'd have had more resources than he'd ever had before. As for the bolded part, people talk bollocks. There are just a lot of teams in or around the same level. Not a massive amount of actual quality, from what I've seen.

Do they? Martinez is on negative transfer net this season. All of his signings have cost less than what they got from Fellaini (which if Moyes had not left them, they wouldn't got near as much money for him).

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It's ironic that you use this kind of logic being a Moyes fan yourself. Desperate times eh? You're trying to hide behind quotes that have multiple interpretations, when at the same you don't see any problem (nor does Moyes himself) in disagreeing with the great SAF on other crucial issues..

I'll re-post these quotes again to force you to read them..


There is not even two ways to interpret these quotes. Very clear and direct assessment of our squad, which you and Moyes totally disagree with.

When SAF talked about standing by your manager at the bad times:

1- he didn't expect the bad times to come so soon, after he did all he could to leave the club in the best shape possible.

2- he didn't even expect the bad times to be this bad.

The comparison between now and when Fergie took over is clearly inaccurate. United were also relegated in 1974, so compared to that we should also accept that the club finish 15th in the league?

When SAF took over the club was a mess, to some extent. No discipline. A lot of drinking and smoking problems among the players. The club didn't have a great youth system... There were a lot of things that he needed to be sorted out before he can lead the club to success again. He deliberately didn't go for immediate success because he looked long term and wanted to build a foundation for a long term success, not a short term one. That's why he needed time, and the club at the time knew exactly what he was doing, which is why they gave him time.

In Moyes' case it's not even comparable. Moyes took over a great club that already possesses all what a club requires for a long term success. He doesn't need to waste time to do what SAF already did. The discipline in our club is already high. the players are top level. The youth system is great. Financially the club is stable and ready to give him all what he needs to compete with the richest clubs of the world...

There is simply no reason for Moyes not to succeed and start showing his qualities right away. He's not rebuilding anything. He's not adding anything to the club (apart from a bunch of ipads), and he's just wasting valuable time that will have a very negative effect on the club, and in a couple of years we might find ourselves at a point where our club will actually need rebuilding, because of him.

SAF didn't rebuild "the squad" before he succeeded, he rebuilt a whole club. Moyes doesn't need to do that, which why we should stop the stupid comparisons between Moyes, and the great SAF.

Point 1. I think this is exactly when he thought David Moyes might have problems, that is why he made that statement to the crowd.

Point 2. I agree with. He knew there might be problems, but not this bad.

 

[Julian Denny]

No, that's quite wrong. I don't think Fergie did magic in his first year and a half - he did inherit a good squad of players, though it was near the bottom - but things did NOT get worse at first. They got better. They were midtable by the time his first season ended - he arrived in November - and they were second in the league by the time his first full season ended. That's NOT 'becoming worse at first'.

Then the trouble started when he got to work on rebuilding the squad, shipped a lot of players out and got new ones in. That was a struggle. But Moyes hasn't even reached that stage yet. He's still got last year's time, with the additions of Mata, Fellaini, Januzaj and Fletcher.

I wish people stopped repeating this myth. There's just NO comparison between the two situations.

Now, do I accept getting the United job is a big task and it takes time to learn everything? Absolutely. Even though it may be more comfortable now with most of our board being American and not actually around on a daily basis. But when it comes down to basics - getting to the training ground, coaching the team, setting it up well - it shouldn't be that bloody difficult. It's still football. And that - the most important thing in a football club - is where Moyes has been lacking,

That's true. Also, a fundamental difference between Fergie and Moyes was that Fergie came to United as a proven winner. Unfortunately Moyes has no track record at all in that regard which everyone knew, or should have known, would be an enormous handicap in taking on a job of this magnitude.

 

[NessunDorma]

No, that's quite wrong. I don't think Fergie did magic in his first year and a half - he did inherit a good squad of players, though it was near the bottom - but things did NOT get worse at first. They got better. They were midtable by the time his first season ended - he arrived in November - and they were second in the league by the time his first full season ended. That's NOT 'becoming worse at first'.

It depends how you define 'at first'. I thought I made it clear I was talking about his first 'three or four seasons' - because that's the terminology I used. I don't think it's unreasonable to describe that period as 'at first', given we're talking about a 27 year tenure. And during that period, the average points total, and the average league finish, was worse than what had preceded it under Atkinson.

This is not opinion, it's fact. So that by 1989/90, the 'knives were out' for Fergie - as he freely admits himself. I'm sure if we were to go back in time, many of the people screaming for Moyes' head now would have been screaming for Fergie's then. 'He's had 3 years! He's spent big money and we're getting worse, not better! He doesn't deserve time! Feck off, Fergie Apologist!'.

But when it comes down to basics - getting to the training ground, coaching the team, setting it up well - it shouldn't be that bloody difficult. It's still football. And that - the most important thing in a football club - is where Moyes has been lacking,

With the greatest respect, you have - I would presume - absolutely *no idea* what goes on at the training ground, how the team is coached, or how certain players who aren't going to be here next season anyway have reacted to that.

 

[Amir]

It depends how you define 'at first'. I thought I made it clear I was talking about his first 'three or four seasons' - because that's the terminology I used. I don't think it's unreasonable to describe that period as 'at first', given we're talking about a 27 year tenure. And during that period, the average points total, and the average league finish, was worse than what had preceded it under Atkinson.

This is not opinion, it's fact. So that by 1989/90, the 'knives were out' for Fergie - as he freely admits himself. I'm sure if we were to go back in time, many of the people screaming for Moyes' head now would have been screaming for Fergie's then. 'He's had 3 years! He's spent big money and we're getting worse, not better! He doesn't deserve time! Feck off, Fergie Apologist!'.

Yeah, it's fact, but it's a VERY manipulated fact. If you want to fairly compare the starts of Fergie and Moyes, compare what they've done with the team they have inherited. Not what happened once they started tearing it down and building a new team - because Moyes hasn't reached that stage yet. Fergie had done very well and more or less used up the potential his team had. Moyes is nowhere near. One took a talented team doing badly and improved it. The other took a talented team doing well and made it worse. That's the right comparison.

With the greatest respect, you have - I would presume - absolutely *no idea* what goes on at the training ground, how the team is coached, or how certain players who aren't going to be here next season anyway have reacted to that.

You're right, I've no idea what happens on the training field. I do know that football is a simple game and that it's the failures that always end up with a billion excuses and explanations. If the training is brilliant but the matches are crap, it's the manager's problem. Players who won't be here next season might not have reacted well? I think there's about two players who we know for certain are off. That's still no excuse for nearly a whole team not performing.

Like I said, football is simple. The failures make it look complicated, especially when you're looking for excuses.

 

[Tomalonge]

This thread is just stupid at times.

 

[stevoc]

That's true. Also, a fundamental difference between Fergie and Moyes was that Fergie came to United as a proven winner. Unfortunately Moyes has no track record at all in that regard which everyone knew, or should have known, would be an enormous handicap in taking on a job of this magnitude.

Great point Fergie's achievements at aberdeen are arguably as impressive as the ones that followed at united.

It would have been easier being patient with a manager with that on his CV, having faith that he can replicate that success he had in scotland at United.

Im not sure what moyes can replicate at United from his time at everton that we would ideally want.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

Does anybody really want to watch Moyes football for the next 6 years? Can't think of anything worse.

 

[NessunDorma]

Dare I say that, the City and Liverpool games aside*, we've improved in recent weeks? We are now comfortably beating the sides we should be beating, while scoring goals to boot, and that wasn't always the case earlier in the season. Then there was obviously a very good result against Bayern as well.

If you were that way inclined - and I suppose I am - you could see it as a small sign of progress.

* Although it's a pretty fecking big 'aside', i'll grant you.

 

[Cal?]

Dare I say that, the City and Liverpool games aside*, we've improved in recent weeks? We are now comfortably beating the sides we should be beating, while scoring goals to boot, and that wasn't always the case earlier in the season. Then there was obviously a very good result against Bayern as well.

If you were that way inclined - and I suppose I am - you could see it as a small sign of progress.

* Although it's a pretty fecking big 'aside', i'll grant you.

That's all very well, but I supposed Moyes is the only person connected to United who "tries to aspire to be at City's level".

 

[shaggy]

I'm actually quite angry. No surprises we played some of our best football we've played all season with our best players on the pitch.

 

[Lu Tze]

Moyes football eh? Nothing worse.

 

[Cal?]

I'm actually quite angry. No surprises we played some of our best football we've played all season with our best players on the pitch.

He's resting his key players for Bayern.

 

[prateik]

I'm actually quite angry. No surprises we played some of our best football we've played all season with our best players on the pitch.

What are you angry about?
Nani was injured for large parts, Mata was signed in Jan.
Mata has been the key for me.

Moyes got criticized for the players not performing. He should be praised when they do.

A good day for him. Settling in.

 

[Bojan11]

Annoyed a bit. Best away form in league.

How the feck did we lose all those games at home? We'd be challenging for the title.

 

[Ubik]

Moyes football eh? Nothing worse.

I'd really try avoid the gloating at this moment, given our continued state in the league.

Great performance all round though. More Mata+Kagawa please.

 

[mic.m]

more of this David. That is the United I know and love. More Kagawa, Mata, Januzaj less Young, Valencia and Fellaini. Footballers > athletes

 

[Lu Tze]

I'd really try avoid the gloating at this moment, given our continued state in the league.

Great performance all round though. More Mata+Kagawa please.

It's not gloating. Today just shows that Moyes teams can play good football. He needs to make sure we play that way consistently.

 

[Revan]

The only time this season which has given me hope that we can go somewhere other than midtable with him. Bar the inclusion of Fellaini and Young today tactics and other player selection was fantastic. Kagawa and Mata are brilliant and Hernandez linked well with them.

Moyes in. For now

 

[Elliott]

That's all very well, but I supposed Moyes is the only person connected to United who "tries to aspire to be at City's level".

 

[Buchan]

Does anybody really want to watch Moyes football for the next 6 years? Can't think of anything worse.

You're right. Watching great football and witnessing 0-4 wins every week would be awful.

Couldn't think of anything worse.

 

[Cal?]

The only time this season which has given me hope that we can go somewhere other than midtable with him. Bar the inclusion of Fellaini and Young today tactics and other player selection was fantastic. Kagawa and Mata are brilliant and Hernandez linked well with them.

Moyes in. For now

I think it's best to reserve judgment till we see the team at Bayern.