"Difficult for him aswell"? He won the league last season with pretty much the same squad Moyes currently has minus the £70 million Moyes spent "improving" it. Is he trying to turn SAF against him? As if to compound matters on the pitch, some of the things he has said in the media have taken the biscuit. He should join in with our under 18's for their media training classes. He needs it more than most of them.
Moyes So Far!
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"Difficult for him aswell"? He won the league last season with pretty much the same squad Moyes currently has minus the £70 million Moyes spent "improving" it. Is he trying to turn SAF against him? As if to compound matters on the pitch, some of the things he has said in the media have taken the biscuit. He should join in with our under 18's for their media training classes. He needs it more than most of them.
Does anyone miss the months in the middle of the season when everyone was injured and Januzaj was our best player? I really miss those times
The speed with which the majority of the fan base is turning on him is frightening, he just seems to be speeding up the process.
He's making it incredibly easy for people to turn on him with the things he's saying and also his shite brand of football and clueless tactics.
At so many clubs he'd have been hounded out in December after the Newcastle and Everton defeats. Amazing it's took this long. Shame it has to come to this but it could just about push the board in the right direction.
I'm sure with some of our younger players...if Fergie had been around would have developed better instead of the reverse.
Perhaps Fergie will reveal all in his third book someday...why the heck he picked Moyes.
Perhaps Fergie will reveal all in his third book someday...why the heck he picked Moyes.
I couldn't believe it when I was reading that - it was actually interesting and with genuine insight. From Michael Owen. My my.
The money quote:
I am really curious. How long a contract did Bayern offer Pep?
To this day it still boggles the mind why Moyes was ever chosen never mind the 20/20 hindsight crap.
I can't think of one reason why he was chosen over someone like Mourinho or even Klopp.
I can't think of one reason why he was chosen over someone like Mourinho or even Klopp.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ed-Old-Trafford-takeover.html#v-3394953540001
Watch the video halfway down, it shows every press conference after each loss this season, as well as his pre season talks. This man is in charge of our club.
Watch the video halfway down, it shows every press conference after each loss this season, as well as his pre season talks. This man is in charge of our club.
Moyes' demeanor is beginning to resemble that of AvB before he was sacked (both times).
He's basically stirring as much shit as possible when he knows he won't last for much longer.
Yes. What really surprises me is his aggression at times. The way he basically calls out people who doubt his work. This last statement actually made very little sense. Why would he involve SAF in all of this? From what we know, Moyes has had a free reign without any interference from Fergie. So, what could have possibly made him make such a crass statement.
He's the human personification of the movie "Groundhog Day".
Before every defeat he says stuff like " we're make it hard for them etc" and after every defeat he says "unlucky, we'll look to improve in the future etc"
Basically, the man has no idea what he's doing. His main tactic is shouting a player's name for 15 minutes per game around the 60th minute when we're inevitably losing a game and have had 1 or 2 shots on goal maximum.
The man is clueless, and as we've found out from his latest comments, classeless as well.
He sometimes claims to take full responsibilty after a defeat but two days later dishes it out to the players, and now, the greatesr manager who ever lived.
Although when he wins, he doesn't acknowledge the players and claims "HE got us into the next round of the Champions League", by laboring to a 3-0 win after a 2-0 defeat against the European giants, err.... Olympiacos.
Basically, the man is clueless and should be driven out of the club if
Not worse.
Before every defeat he says stuff like " we're make it hard for them etc" and after every defeat he says "unlucky, we'll look to improve in the future etc"
Basically, the man has no idea what he's doing. His main tactic is shouting a player's name for 15 minutes per game around the 60th minute when we're inevitably losing a game and have had 1 or 2 shots on goal maximum.
The man is clueless, and as we've found out from his latest comments, classeless as well.
He sometimes claims to take full responsibilty after a defeat but two days later dishes it out to the players, and now, the greatesr manager who ever lived.
Although when he wins, he doesn't acknowledge the players and claims "HE got us into the next round of the Champions League", by laboring to a 3-0 win after a 2-0 defeat against the European giants, err.... Olympiacos.
Basically, the man is clueless and should be driven out of the club if
Not worse.
Which involves adding a few players here or there and not going into absolute freefall.
I agree. The guy is showing signs of arrogance. I mean coming out with this shit despite United are at 7 place and he had been managing for 10 years without ever winning anything. Imagine the guy having SAF record.
Which might also include not sorting out our midfield and extending Evra and Vida's contract.
Like many I did not want Moyes from the start. I didn't think he had the personality, charisma or the winning track record to manage a club like United. Actually given its history, traditions and the unprecedented success of his predecessor, there is no other club like United. Anyway, once he was appointed I was prepared to allow him some time to see what he could do. After all he seemed to be respected in the game as a result of what he "did" at Everton. I rather ignored the somewhat veiled criticism from Everton fans as regards the style of play and the tactics they were used to under their erstwhile manager. I rather ignored the fact the term "dithering Dave" came up quite a bit. I laboured under the belief that perhaps our new manager would be able to step up a few gears to the sort of level required of a United manager. Despite my resigned optimism, my first major doubt arose when Fergie's successful backroom staff were replaced by a bunch of relative nobodies. Given the magnitude of the task ahead, this seemed an astonishing act. From then on it seems to have gone downhill all the way with Moyes digging a seemingly bigger hole for himself as the weeks went by.
The bottom line is that Moyes was never a suitable candidate for this job. Apart form anything else he had no track record of real success, least of all at the highest level. He just hasn't got it. For those who think there might be a glimmer of hope, look at it on the balance of probabilities. Given the evidence so far, including the time at Everton, what chance is there that Moyes has the ability to return United to the level expected by millions of fans worldwide - to say nothing of the shareholders? It seems to me the chances are very slim indeed - almost non-existent I would think. Giving Moyes a substantial transfer kitty wont help and it would be a considerable risk given his record so far - Fellaini in particular and even the gifted Mata whom he doesn't know really what to do with.
On balance, a gross mistake has been made. That should now be acknowledged and rectified as a matter of urgency before much more damage is done. Paying Moyes out the balance of his ridiculously long contract will be costly but not as costly as keeping him on. Finding a far better qualified replacement will not be easy but the sooner that process is started, this time in a far more thorough and professional way, the better. As far as this decision is concerned, it might take either the Glazers overriding the advice and wishes of co-directors Fergie and Charlton or the board, in any event, being forced into a decision as a result of a widespread fan revolt or even a player one, the beginnings of which seem to be already be in evidence.
The bottom line is that Moyes was never a suitable candidate for this job. Apart form anything else he had no track record of real success, least of all at the highest level. He just hasn't got it. For those who think there might be a glimmer of hope, look at it on the balance of probabilities. Given the evidence so far, including the time at Everton, what chance is there that Moyes has the ability to return United to the level expected by millions of fans worldwide - to say nothing of the shareholders? It seems to me the chances are very slim indeed - almost non-existent I would think. Giving Moyes a substantial transfer kitty wont help and it would be a considerable risk given his record so far - Fellaini in particular and even the gifted Mata whom he doesn't know really what to do with.
On balance, a gross mistake has been made. That should now be acknowledged and rectified as a matter of urgency before much more damage is done. Paying Moyes out the balance of his ridiculously long contract will be costly but not as costly as keeping him on. Finding a far better qualified replacement will not be easy but the sooner that process is started, this time in a far more thorough and professional way, the better. As far as this decision is concerned, it might take either the Glazers overriding the advice and wishes of co-directors Fergie and Charlton or the board, in any event, being forced into a decision as a result of a widespread fan revolt or even a player one, the beginnings of which seem to be already be in evidence.
They need to act now because it looks as though Wenger might quit at the end of the season.
Calling David Moyes smug is like calling Eeyore captain happy.
You see something that isn't there. It's a nervous smile. He's still not lost my support yet, nor convinced me he's the right man.
You see something that isn't there. It's a nervous smile. He's still not lost my support yet, nor convinced me he's the right man.
I cringed when after the 0-3 loss to Liverpool he said "we need to make ourselves harder to beat"
What as Wenger got to do with anything.Unless some are believing that Klopp may become arse manager thus messing with their wet dreams.
All the United fans ringing Talksport this morning were behind him. A lot of them are game going fans as well. It seems to be fans forums that aren't.
Those phone ins are always open to abuse from fans of other clubs pretending to be United fans. I suspect at least some of them were not genuine.
Michael Owen talking sense, that doesn't seem right somehow.
There's quite a few match going fans on here who aren't. I don't see how you can be behind me the way he's performed and coming out with shite like he has been doing. He's been a major let down and the most telling aspect of it is that no one can see him improving - no one. He's stuck in his way of doing things and it's not right for us.
He said that after Newcastle didn't he? Mind you what's the difference he probably said it both times.
This article by Ken Early is the best I've read on the Moyes situation so far. Great piece of writing that sums up what I, and I'm sure many others are feeling.
United We Fall
Is David Moyes to blame for the collapse of Manchester United? Or is it all Sir Alex Ferguson’s fault?
David Moyes’ account of the day he got the Manchester United jobforeshadowed so much that was to follow, in a way that seldom happens in real life.
Moyes says that last April he was out shopping with his wife, Pamela, when his phone rang.
“Where are you?” said Sir Alex Ferguson.
“I’m out with my wife,” said Moyes.
“Can you drop over to the house?” said Sir Alex.
Moyes, the longtime manager for Everton, wondered what Ferguson wanted. He told Pamela: “It’s either he wants me to take somebody on loan, or he’s come to buy one of my players.”
Moyes left Pamela at a local shopping center and drove to Sir Alex Ferguson’s mansion. He was nervous because he was wearing jeans and a T-shirt. “I’d never ever go to a meeting with Sir Alex with a pair of jeans on. ... I can’t do this!” he remembers thinking.
Sir Alex ignored Moyes’ casual outfit and got straight to business: “I’m retiring. Next week. You’re the next Man United manager.”
“So I didn’t get the chance to say yes or no,” Moyes later said. “As you can imagine, the blood drained from my face.”
Two things strike you about Moyes’ story: At no point was he in control of what was happening. And when he sought to describe his feelings when he learned he had been handed the biggest job in English football, he reached for a cliché that signifies terror.
* * *
The metaphor might not have been adroit, but it was at least truthful. Lately the blood in Moyes’ face appears to have gone on permanent leave. The cameras love to linger on the pale, haggard figure in the Manchester United dugout, eyes round with dismay beneath hairless brows whose wrinkled skin betrays every twitch of anxiety.
The horror is unrelenting. Nothing works.
Last Tuesday, Manchester City came to Old Trafford. Knowing that City at their best are an irresistible attacking force, Moyes had devised a tactical system that he hoped would prove an immovable object. Everyone knew this was United’s last chance in domestic competition to show some defiance, to salvage some tatters of pride from the wreckage of the season.
City kicked off and swarmed forward. In 25 seconds, they had four players in United’s penalty area. In 35 seconds, David Silva had their first shot. In 41 seconds, Samir Nasri had a second shot. In 43 seconds, Edin Dzeko sent a third shot high into United’s net. It was the fastest goal any visiting team had scored at Old Trafford in the Premier League era.
The match finished 3–0 to City, making 2013–14 the first season in United’s history when they have lost both home and away to their rivals, City and Liverpool. They are guaranteed their worst-ever points total in the Premier League, having already suffered a record 10 defeats, and they will fail to qualify for the Champions League (if they don’t win the whole thing this year) for the first time in 19 seasons.
United are 18 points behind the league leaders, Chelsea. They have scored 18 goals at home, the same total as Fulham and Cardiff, who occupy the bottom two places in the table. For every three goals United have scored at home, Manchester City have scored eight.
Over the past 15 seasons, United have won on average 77 percent of their home matches, taking 46.7 points at home out of the 57 available in a season. In the past five seasons they have been even more dominant, taking on average 50 out of 57 points at home. This season, they’ve won 40 percent of their home matches, taking 21 of 45 points.
Forget barbarians at the gates. They’ve come through the walls and the city is in flames.
* * *
Sir Alex Ferguson lifts his final Premier League trophy in May 2013.
Photo by Alex Livesey/Getty Images
A few weeks after the scene in Sir Alex Ferguson’s house, the knight stood on the pitch at Old Trafford with his 13th Premier League trophy, basking in the crowd’s acclaim for the last time. He took a microphone and issued his final command: ”Your job now is to support your new manager!”
With hindsight, it was a curious thing to say. The “job” of fans, if they can be said to have a job, is surely to support the team rather than the manager. Such was the authority of Sir Alex, however, that it seemed normal at the time.
Normal, at least, compared to the news that football’s most decorated manager would be succeeded by the trophyless David Moyes, which had provoked widespread astonishment in the world of football. The gist of that astonishment was simple: “Not Mourinho!?”
technical areas all over Europe. He had once gouged a man’s eye in a touchline scuffle. The only reason he was available is that his position at Real Madrid had become untenable after several senior players turned against him. And while nobody could dispute that he had been successful, his style of football was cold, cruel, and devious.
The rationalization continued: Ferguson, the old fox, understood what Manchester United needed better than anyone. United were already a machine for winning trophies. They didn’t need a self-proclaimed genius to teach them what they already knew. They didn’t want an unstable, preening narcissist to storm in, use them as a vehicle for his own glorification, and storm back out again, leaving behind God knows what kind of mess.
No. What was needed was a loyal custodian who could be trusted to keep the United machine ticking over. A man who respected the values that had brought so much success. A man who understood what it meant to serve something greater than himself. That man—how the scales have fallen from our eyes!—was David William Moyes.
* * *
David Moyes in happier, preseason days.
Photo by PAUL ELLIS/AFP/Getty Images
At the beginning of July, the club released photographs of a beaming Moyes sitting in his new office at the club’s training ground at Carrington. His desk was tidy, his Manchester United mouse pad ready for action.
It was from this building that Alex Ferguson had ruled English football, the spider at the center of a vast invisible web of connections and control. He exercised absolute power over the club he managed for nearly 27 years, but his influence stretched well beyond the limits of his own domain. Other British managers competed for his favor; they knew a word from him could make or break careers. Referees and journalists were terrified of him. He left most of the training to his coaches and spent his time gathering intelligence from far-flung corners of the empire, speaking to contacts on one of as many as nine mobile phones.
Ferguson believed he had left David Moyes with a winning hand. “It was important to me to leave an organisation in the strongest possible shape and I believe I have done so,” his retirement statement read. “The quality of this league winning squad, and the balance of ages within it, bodes well for continued success at the highest level whilst the structure of the youth set-up will ensure that the long-term future of the club remains a bright one.”
It’s clear now that the squad and the youth setup was only the hardware of the United system. The software that made it work was all in Ferguson’s head. How do you hand over the keys to a kingdom of the mind?
* * *
Moyes’ first major initiative was to dismiss Ferguson’s coaching staff and install the technical team he’d brought with him from Everton.
He had a reputation as a hands-on coach who pushed his players hard in training. According to Phil Neville, who played for Moyes at Everton, players sometimes ran so hard in preseason training that they vomited. “The Horse Shoe” was a Moyes preseason institution. Neville describes it as “a series of sharp runs that cover distances between 100 meters and 300 meters and there is barely any time to catch your breath in between. By the time you are on your eighth sprint, your legs feel like jelly and buckle, while your lungs are burning. The manager, meanwhile, simply laughs as you collapse.”
a different approach: “At Chelsea … the way they used to develop an aerobic condition was putting players through 12 sprints of 100 meters each. The way I use to develop an aerobic condition is three against three, man to man, in a square 20 meters by 20. It’s completely different.” Frank Lampard remembers Mourinho’s fitness coach, Rui Faria, saying: “If I am working with a concert pianist why would I make him run around the piano until he drops? Will it make him a better pianist?”
United’s players soon noted the difference between Moyes’ training methods and Ferguson’s. Wayne Rooney: “We’ve done a lot more running: long running, quicker running, sharper running.” Rio Ferdinand: “I think the intensity has gone up … it has been very hard.”
The new methods became a matter of controversy in the summer when Moyes said of Robin van Persie: “We have overtrained him this week to try and make sure we built up his fitness but he has never complained about a thing.” The comment drew criticism from at least one high-profile fitness coach, Raymond Verheijen, who predicted that such overtraining would lead to a recurrence of van Persie’s past injury problems. As it turned out, van Persie has missed nearly half this season’s games due to injury. It might be purely coincidental, but it doesn’t look good.
* * *
Of course, United supporters didn’t care what Moyes did to the players in training as long as they were still the same dominant Manchester United on the field. Obedient to Ferguson’s command, they urged the new boss on with a new song: “Come on David Moyes, play like Fergie’s boys!”
They knew that Moyes’ Everton teams had seldom played like Fergie’s boys. They were tough, methodical sides that were always hard to beat but often struggled to win. Lacking the wealth that enabled United to attract some of the world’s most talented players, Everton compensated with togetherness and tactical cohesion. In the simplest possible terms: They worked hard in defense and when they won possession, they would get the ball to wide areas and cross it.
United supporters hoped that once Moyes was working with Fergie’s actual boys, he would adopt a style of play more in keeping with their status: open, attacking, ambitious.
Instead, to their dismay, United now look more like Everton.
That table makes interesting reading. Conventional football wisdom might lead you to think that a high number of crosses is an indicator of dominance in the game. Yet when you look down the list of matches where one team has produced an exceptionally large tally, you notice that none of the top seven entrants won the game in question. You have to scan down to eighth place and Manchester City, who struck 68 crosses in the 3–2 win against Queens Park Rangers that sealed the 2012 league title, to find the first team for whom the barrage coincided with the desired result.
It could be that such a freakishly high number of crosses is a symptom of a kind of nervous breakdown within a team that has collectively lost faith in its plan and forgotten how to play football.
For the home crowd, the sight of United persisting with their failing strategy was like watching a beloved relative methodically smashing his head against a brick wall. Fulham’s 6-foot-7 central defender Dan Burn remarked, “I haven’t headed that many balls since the Conference.” “It was straightforward—get it wide, get it in. If you’re well-organized it can be easy to defend against,” gloated Meulensteen, who would be sacked five days later due to poor results—another sign that away results at Old Trafford aren’t held in the same regard as they once were.
Moyes reacted irritably when confronted with the crossing statistics after the match. “You need to have a football intelligence, a football brain, to understand first of all,” he said, instantly ensuring that the journalists’ reports would become 10 percent more caustic. This is the problem David Moyes has had all season. There has been too little evidence of his football brain, and rather too much of his tin ear.
* * *
David Moyes, the face that launched a thousand memes.
Photo by Laurence Griffiths/Getty Images
While advances in sports science and analytics have made football management more technical than ever before, the job remains essentially about people skills and communication. Those are still the keys to that mysterious thing called inspiration, and in a football arms race where everybody is eating the right things and (mostly) training the right way, inspiration can still make the difference. It was Ferguson’s gift that, whether by bullying or cajoling or encouraging, he was invariably able to push the right emotional buttons, to think of the right thing to say at the right time.
Moyes has shown a sixth sense for pushing the wrong buttons. As United have reeled from defeat to defeat, bewildered by the sudden disappearance of their powers, crying out for inspiration, Moyes has shown himself incapable of rising above leaden clichés cluttered with disheartening qualifiers.
“We just didn’t get to the required standard.” “I take responsibility, it’s my team and we have to play better.” “We have to try and do something about our league position.” “It’s a long journey here and this is only the start of it. It is just going to take a little time to get it sorted.” Moyes-speak is the rhetorical equivalent of 81 crosses against Fulham. Imagine Winston Churchill had promised not “blood, toil, tears, and sweat,” but to “hopefully try and work hard to make life difficult for Mr. Hitler.”
That word “hopefully” has become a kind of verbal tic. Every sentence that includes “hopefully” admits the possibility of failure. Would the voice of Milton’s Satan have echoed through the ages if he’d exhorted his evil army with the cry: “What though the field be lost? All is hopefully not lost.”
the latest Moyes failure meme on Facebook. Instant communication means instant reaction and counterreaction; whole story arcs can play out in hours where previously they would have taken days or weeks. Criticism of a failing manager can build to a fervor that was not possible in the time before social media.
the fanzine RedIssue suggested that up to 40 percent of United fans blamed him for the way things have turned out. At the City game he became the target for abuse from angry fans expressing that very opinion. He, too, may be reflecting on whether his original conviction about Moyes was correct.
It’s tempting for successful people to flatter themselves that they are successful because they are, at heart, good. Alex Ferguson is not a sentimental man, but maybe he began to sentimentalize aspects of his own mythology. He may have started to believe that the roots of his success lay in his solid Scottish values, his honest, working-class ethics. Maybe when he looked at Moyes, his fellow Scotsman, he saw some of the qualities that he liked to see in himself.
In his autobiography, Managing My Life, Ferguson writes, “Loyalty has been the anchor of my life.” But when Roy Keane—one of several great players Ferguson ultimately drove out of the club—was asked to define the manager, the word he chose was ruthless.
Managing Manchester United is not a job for a custodian type. The United manager has to carry the hopes of hundreds of millions of supporters, to whip star players into line, to remain serene amid a ceaseless media frenzy. You don’t have to be a ruthless egomaniac with delusions of grandeur, but it helps.
When Ferguson chose Moyes over Mourinho, he may have thought he was appointing a successor in his own image. If that was Sir Alex’s intention, it’s clear that he chose the wrong man.
The question now is whether the Glazer family decides to stick with Moyes for at least the start of the coming season, or relieve him of his duties in the summer. Next week Bayern Munich visit Old Trafford for the Champions League quarterfinal. The record-breaking German champions are the best team in the world. A win for United would be something like a football miracle.
In a strange way, Bayern may have arrived at the best possible time for David Moyes. Because only a miracle can save him now.
Moyes, just once this season can you get us to look like an exciting team that the opposition fear. Just once please and I will stop telling god you are a cnut
Sorry, if this has been posted already. More blame from Moyesie...
Moyes responds to Neville and Scholes criticism: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/manchester-united-boss-david-moyes-6891934
"As Sky TV pundits at Tuesday’s Old Trafford derby drubbing by City, Neville and Scholes were scathing about the United’s display and highlighted the lack of tempo and speed.
One of United’s fans main issues about Moyes’ influence has been that the champions have become ponderous and lack their previous energy and verve. “Tempo and speed comes from the personnel and we are aware of that,” said the Old Trafford boss."
Moyes responds to Neville and Scholes criticism: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/manchester-united-boss-david-moyes-6891934
"As Sky TV pundits at Tuesday’s Old Trafford derby drubbing by City, Neville and Scholes were scathing about the United’s display and highlighted the lack of tempo and speed.
One of United’s fans main issues about Moyes’ influence has been that the champions have become ponderous and lack their previous energy and verve. “Tempo and speed comes from the personnel and we are aware of that,” said the Old Trafford boss."
It's only really dawned on me in the last few days. ..
Moyes. We replaced SAF with David Moyes.
Bayern got pep.
Chelsea got Mourinho
Madrid got ancelotti
manchester united got david moyes. What were we thinking?
He's never won anything. He brings Phil Neville as a coach. How on earth could we expect the champions to respect him?
He's such an embarrassment. We need rooney in case rvp gets injured. We'll try. We need to try make it difficult for newcastle at OT. Liverpool are favourites at OT. We aspire to be like city. The guy hasn't got a clue.
The annoying thing now it's that stories are being leaked that he'll get the sack if he loses the fans. Glazers are passing buck to us, now we need to be the bad guys and act like other small time clubs.
We could have had mourinho. What the feck were we thinking?
Moyes. We replaced SAF with David Moyes.
Bayern got pep.
Chelsea got Mourinho
Madrid got ancelotti
manchester united got david moyes. What were we thinking?
He's never won anything. He brings Phil Neville as a coach. How on earth could we expect the champions to respect him?
He's such an embarrassment. We need rooney in case rvp gets injured. We'll try. We need to try make it difficult for newcastle at OT. Liverpool are favourites at OT. We aspire to be like city. The guy hasn't got a clue.
The annoying thing now it's that stories are being leaked that he'll get the sack if he loses the fans. Glazers are passing buck to us, now we need to be the bad guys and act like other small time clubs.
We could have had mourinho. What the feck were we thinking?
Ingesting thing to say
Great read.
Was speaking to a friend last night who attends a lot of games both home and away and he says whereas he doesn't feel like the majority of match going fans will ever visibly turn on Moyes that the atmosphere has been getting more tense and the moans and groans about our tepid performances are increasing. He also said that he believes most match going fans do want Moyes out but are reluctant to express these feelings whilst at the games.
Watching Soccer Saturday and they all think he needs time to build a squad, not one of them have mentioned we're the current champions. Everybody acts like we finished 10th last year and need a completely new squad to challenge again.
Moyes: "Fly-by money would be better spent by giving it to Darren Fletcher's charity."
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