Moyes So Far!

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Ubik said:
Not all down to him I agree, no matter how bad a motivator or man-manager someone is, players should always be working hard to do their best. But I tend to go with Occam's Razor on stuff like this - is it likelier that our squad have decided to turn shit over the space of a few months out of spite, or is Moyes just out of his depth? Obviously that's a simplification, but Ferguson left a club where the manager was pre-eminent, and Moyes is now quite clearly not the person to fill that void. We needed a personality, someone that can imprint a vision into the club - take the foundations Fergie laid and build another great side. We should be challenging Bayern, not worrying that they're about to put double figures past us. We'd never have thought like this last year, with this same side. We'd think it would be tough but that there was a way past them. That confidence has been trashed in 7 months. We've gone from thinking we're a few signings away from competing with anyone in europe to hoping that £100m of signings will be enough to get us back into europe.

As a club, we still have the potential to take on anyone, and the right person with the right vision could turn us into an attacking outfit that would scare people again. I've tried to believe that Moyes is that man in the past, but let's be honest, he can try all he wants, he's not going to be it.
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Thats a good post man.

I've tried not to dwell on the backroom staff removal too much, because not only does it do my head in, but i got a torrid amount of abuse on here about that when he got stuck in. I'm not sayin i was right or any of that shite, but as Res Shorts said: "top players need world class training week in, week out to maintain a level of consistency.."

It feels like McDonalds has taken over a Michelin Star restaurant & you just cant defend criticism from non-United fans because you know they're right. My best mate is a Toffee fan & he has a huge admiration for United as a club, but he was astounded we chose Moyes. "Negative Manager etc.." is the key phrase he most describes him!
 
entropy said:
Come on mate, you cannot be seriously comparing us losing fergie who won titles to someone who wasn't under any such sort of pressure. You can draw parallels but both clubs face totally different challenges every season.
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I'm completely serious. For Everton, what Moyes has done is just as big. He seemed to have completely overhaul the club. He build the entire first time as it was when he left. He didn't win trophies or anything, but that's not what I'm comparing.
 
Adebesi said:
Come on! Its not just about the length of service but the honours won. You could make that case for Wenger when he leaves, but even then, nowhere near to the same degree. There is no equivalent to us losing SAF for any other team, I understand people feel this point is overdone and maybe it is but you are going too far the other way to compare these two situations.
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It's not just the honours won at all. It's how important you are in the club, how big an affect you've had over the way it is run. I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but there are certain comparisons. For Everton to carry on so smoothly while we do so poorly does indicate something.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
As I said in the other thread, he speaks constantly about what a huge job he has to do and how he has to rebuild the squad, as if he took over a shambolic club. He took over the champions FFS. I wish someone in a presser would call him out on this.

In the very next sentence he goes on to say that we have many good players. Which only points to one thing, not having a good manager.
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Yeah, i totally agree. Would be interesting to hear what he has to say regarding that alright. It would probably something along the lines of:

"Of course with every re-structuring at a football club there's always gonna be a change in philosophy & i have my own philosophy - thats why i was chosen to manage the club. Its gonna take time for the players to understand that philosophy & i should only be judged properly when i've brought in the players that mirror that philosophy..."
 
Amir said:
It's not just the honours won at all. It's how important you are in the club, how big an affect you've had over the way it is run. I'm not saying it's exactly the same, but there are certain comparisons. For Everton to carry on so smoothly while we do so poorly does indicate something.
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Right. And I'm not saying it's just about honours won.

"Certain comparisons" is fine. What you actually said was losing Moyes after 11 years was as big for them as losing SAF was for us, I disagree with that statement strongly.
 
Shark22 said:
A Bayern mauling won't be the end of his reign, I'm almost certain of that. We got a mauling at the hands of both City and Liverpool at home, which is far worse. Obviously you wouldn't say 0-3 is a thrashing, but at home, it's still a deeply embarrassing result. Just the Liverpool game on its own was a sackable offence at any big club that isn't living in cuckoo land.
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I think the club will stick with Moyes no matter how many goals we get stuck past us. The general consensus is that he'll be given money to spend and the first half of next season. It's a hell of a gamble Gary Neville is right when he says money won't solve all the problems. You can buy three or four really good players but if the manager has no idea how to get them playing as a team then it's money pissed up the wall for all intents and purposes.

United is simply far too big a club these days to trust to a man who has no track record of winning trophies or competing with the best in Europe on a consistent basis. We are, in terms of global presence (as the marketing men say) on the same level as Real and Barca. I imagine Jose would have slit his grandma's throat to get the United job, and that goes for other managers of similar stature too. What the hell made the club tear up their stated job requirements and hand the job to Moyes on a plate, without even interviewing, as far as we know, other suitable candidates?

This whole "chosen one" business is one of the most naff things I've seen in football, and that's over 50 years of watching this club. The expectations were huge and he must feel the weight of the world on his shoulders at the moment and I wouldn't swap places with him for any amount of money.
 
Freak said:
Sometimes I do wonder if the board actually set any list of minimum achievements/goals in his contract. Either the goals were set way too low, or nothing was set. I guess we will see soon enough.
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Id imagine if there is any it would be a top 4 finish, which we can still get. We will know more when its mathematically impossible to get it.
 
Freak said:
Sometimes I do wonder if the board actually set any list of minimum achievements/goals in his contract. Either the goals were set way too low, or nothing was set. I guess we will see soon enough.
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Surely they must have included targets? In the real world, you don't get a 5m a year contract without some minimum threshold being set. And, whatever they were, Moyes must have fallen short barring some miraculous champions league run (which will probably be as good as over by 21.30 on Tuesday).
 
MoskvaRed said:
Surely they must have included targets? In the real world, you don't get a 5m a year contract without some minimum threshold being set. And, whatever they were, Moyes must have fallen short barring some miraculous champions league run (which will probably be as good as over by 21.30 on Tuesday).
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Targets are hard to quantify at a football club. For example would 10th place be acceptable if we won the Champions League? Or would 7th be ok if we won the FA Cup and League Cup and reach a CL final? Would 4th be okay if every other team was poor and we got knocked out of every other competition at the first hurdle? Would 5th be okay if the top 4 all played brilliantly and we progressed far in all the other tournaments, getting knocked out narrowly?

I would guess that the better approach would be for the board or whatever sub-committee of it to consider all these things in conjunction before deciding.

That said, however success is being measured, I agree its fair to say he's failed. Humiliated at home in both the FA Cup and League Cup and out of the title race by October, numerous humiliations by our rivals. The CL is the only competition where we've probably achieved the minimum standard, getting out of a modest group and getting past the worst team we could have faced in the knockouts.
 
Freak said:
Sometimes I do wonder if the board actually set any list of minimum achievements/goals in his contract. Either the goals were set way too low, or nothing was set. I guess we will see soon enough.
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I don't think so. I think SAF likes the idea that a manager should be given control and time and faith to exercise his plans. Which is what I reckon what we've done with Moyes. We've given him a free hand and he's the "boss" like fergie was in a sense.

Howveer, at the end of the day this club is owned by the glazers and they can't afford to see their gold mine of an investment sink, and that's I'm sure more important to them than Saf's opinion on managerial tenures.
 
Ringo 07 said:


What a great interview. This man has an aura and football philosophy that Moyes could never even dream of having. This man is everything Moyes is not
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Yeah it's a great Interview!

His winning mentality:
On Pep,
"It's exciting I like meeting him, someone who I like talking to...
When we meet them we will beat them"

On losing his players:
"Kagawa is a bomb, he's a strong player, unbelievable"

We can easily imagine the answers in interview of Moyes with same set of questions!

Maybe some witty poster here would like to have a go what those answers would be? Anyone? :)
 
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Ubik said:
Pretty much. Would fit in here seamlessly.
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Agreed!

He says he's sure he won't be like Sir Alex sitting here (at his stadium) at age 69. He would like to try something else.

Bigger challenge maybe?

If he's coming to us, he will be a success. Well, he understands football and his philosophy fits our cultural. He's charismatic and likable (not to mention better looking :))
 
Yes, blood has been spilt! Stakes! Drive the stakes through KC's tainted heart! Beeeern the heretic!
 
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