Moyes So Far!

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Getting hell for pointing out the obvious now.

If he was getting sacked this season it would have already happened after one of the big derby defeats. You don't have to be a Glazer to figure that shit out.
 
Tomalonge said:
Getting hell for pointing out the obvious now.

If he was getting sacked this season it would have already happened after one of the big derby defeats. You don't have to be a Glazer to figure that shit out.
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Alternatively he has a non-CL qualification sack clause the club is waiting to activate?
 
Cal? said:
There was one a while ago, then one of the mods merged it with this one I think.
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Ah ok, I did wonder, but just to get my thoughts in I am stating to think he might go after the Bayern ties. I do think the most probable is end of season but we gave Moyes a similar time with pre season and look how thats turned out, if were ready to sack him, sooner rather than later is the way.
 
Cal? said:
Alternatively he has a non-CL qualification sack clause the club is waiting to activate?
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My posting stance pre arrival here in the mains was that we were going to get battered by Liverpool, eliminated by the Greeks, then battered by City and that the morning after Moyes would be stood at Warwick Road Metro with a cardboard box in his hand full of his stationery and a P45 sticking out of his breast pocket. I'm convinced the fact that we are still in the CL is the only thing keeping him in a job and that should we suffer an horriffic mauling against Bayern (odds on at this stage) he will be down the job shop
 
LonelyFire said:
This has been my suspicion all along. Its not rocket science to suugest performance related clauses exist in the contract.
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I don't expect him to get sacked even after losing to Bayern. I think the only argument I heard which stands against other is that "Moyes needs to build his own squad" and by the looks of it, he will get the money and time to do so. He is tactically inept, he cannot put together 4-5 sentences to give a confident interview and to top it all he cant seem to shake off the shitty grin. As much as I would like for our fortunes to change overnight, I think it will take us a good season or two to build a squad good enough to compete for the title.
 
Barca84 said:
My posting stance pre arrival here in the mains was that we were going to get battered by Liverpool, eliminated by the Greeks, then battered by City and that the morning after Moyes would be stood at Warwick Road Metro with a cardboard box in his hand full of his stationery and a P45 sticking out of his breast pocket. I'm convinced the fact that we are still in the CL is the only thing keeping him in a job and that should we suffer an horriffic mauling against Bayern (odds on at this stage) he will be down the job shop
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Unless we've got someone ready to step in right away - not on an interim basis, but on a permanent role - I don't see the point. We might as well wait until the end of the season and prepare a new man in the background.

But what am I talking about. He's here to stay.
 
entropy said:
I don't expect him to get sacked even after losing to Bayern. I think the only argument I heard which stands against other is that "Moyes needs to build his own squad" and by the looks of it, he will get the money and time to do so. He is tactically inept, he cannot put together 4-5 sentences to give a confident interview and to top it all he cant seem to shake off the shitty grin. As much as I would like for our fortunes to change overnight, I think it will take us a good season or two to build a squad good enough to compete for the title.
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The building your own squad argument is silly beyond belief, as not many coaches/managers actually get to build their own teams and most are doing just fine by taking good squads and doing well with them. We may well improve the squad even with Moyes, but if he's not made the best of what he had this season I see no reason to think he'll make the best our of a better squad.
 
Ringo 07 said:


What a great interview. This man has an aura and football philosophy that Moyes could never even dream of having. This man is everything Moyes is not
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Never knew his English was so good! And he's so refreshing to listen too, not at all like listen to Moyes where you want to kill yourself after two minutes of glum and doom.

Klopp, save us from this hell.
 
SirAF said:
Jesus christ what I would do to have van Gaal or Klopp as our manager. I mean, I'd love for Moyes to succeed and I'd love to be confident in his future here. However, I just can't see that he has what it takes, tactically to take us to the next level. (Or even back to our previous level for that matter)
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We'll wait until the summer to sack Moyes and van Gaal will be at Spurs by then unfortunately.
 
Amir said:
The building your own squad argument is silly beyond belief, as not many coaches/managers actually get to build their own teams and most are doing just fine by taking good squads and doing well with them. We may well improve the squad even with Moyes, but if he's not made the best of what he had this season I see no reason to think he'll make the best our of a better squad.
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Most clubs do not have the luxury of being Manchester United. The managers that you speak off have never replaced someone who has been as successful as fergie. It is an entirely different beast. Moyes has shown no evidence to support that he deserves more time and money but clearly it is a risk the board are willing to take. I wont be getting worked up about it but if these shitty half arsed school boy interviews continue next season I expect him to get sacked without any doubt.
 
A respectable showing in the league for the rest of this season and, despite the size of the task, making a good account of ourselves in however long we last in the Champions League this year, then I think attitudes to Moyes will soften heading into and over the summer. Having said that I've very little faith any of that will happen; I suspect we'll carry on as we have been dropping points at home and will be embarrassed both in and other two legs against Bayern.
 
Plugsy said:
A respectable showing in the league for the rest of this season and, despite the size of the task, making a good account of ourselves in however long we last in the Champions League this year, then I think attitudes to Moyes will soften heading into and over the summer. Having said that I've very little faith any of that will happen; I suspect we'll carry on as we have been dropping points at home and will be embarrassed both in and other two legs against Bayern.
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I don't understand this. Why should he be given more time if he does well against the remaining teams we have to play? He's clearly not the right manager for United even if he beats the likes of Villa or Hull.
 
Mel_F said:
I don't understand this. Why should he be given more time if he does well against the remaining teams we have to play? He's clearly not the right manager for United even if he beats the likes of Villa or Hull.
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Because we're nearly in April, the whole season has been a complete sham and he isn't going anywhere. I'm not saying what should happen, I'm just saying that I think is likely. The straw that breaks the camels back isnt going to be the handful of meaningless games over the final few weeks.
 
Oliver Kay in today's Times.

This is not how Sir Alex Ferguson imagined it when he abdicated last May, basking in the warmth of the fondest of farewells. Since then, his visits to Old Trafford have become pained, anguished affairs, whether it is watching Manchester United’s latest miserable underperformance or sitting in his office at the ground, listening to the laments of his increasingly embattled successor.

On Tuesday, after United fell to their sixth defeat in 15 Barclays Premier League home matches under David Moyes, losing 3-0 to Manchester City, some supporters vented their anger at Ferguson as they headed past the directors’ box towards the exits. Gone was the reverence of last May as Ferguson was berated and castigated over his decision to appoint — or, as it seemed, anoint — Moyes as his replacement.

Reaching the Champions League quarter-finals can mask the inescapable reality that United are in a bad, bad place under Moyes right now — seventh in the Premier League, hopelessly adrift of the top four and, worse, afflicted by a malaise that is souring the atmosphere both at the training ground and, finally, at the stadium. Even without facing accusations that it is all his fault, Ferguson must look at the state of his kingdom with a sense of growing despair.

A penny for your thoughts, Sir Alex? No, let us put it a different way. Speak up, Sir Alex. In the later years of his managerial career, Ferguson often used his press conferences and his press columns to speak up on behalf of troubled managers — Sam Allardyce, Steve Bruce, Alex McLeish, even sometime foes such as Kevin Keegan, Arsène Wenger and Rafael Benítez, when facing difficulties — but, on Moyes, we have barely heard a peep out of him.

Last October, Ferguson said precious little about Moyes, who even then was feeling the heat after defeats by Liverpool, City and West Bromwich Albion. When the BBC spoke to him at a Uefa conference in January, Ferguson took umbrage at being asked about Moyes. On March 1, he finally opened up, but only as far as four short sentences, the gist of which was: “They’ll be fine.”

They’ll be fine? United are not fine. They are in such a mess that it feels almost too late for Ferguson to say anything of substance. Even so, it is tempting to wonder whether it would do some good, even if only to mollify the fans before the home matches against Aston Villa on Saturday and Bayern Munich in the Champions League quarter-final, first leg on Tuesday, if Ferguson were to allow an MUTV camera into his office, where he could remind the supporters of the grim times they endured together in his early days, how they always stuck by him and how United’s enemies are those outside the club, not inside.

There is nothing sinister behind Ferguson’s silence. It stems, apparently, from an unwillingness to undermine Moyes and feed the “media monster”. A personal view is that the media have, like United’s supporters inside the ground, been far more understanding than is normal in these unforgiving times — few shared Ferguson’s belief that Moyes had been left with a squad capable of sustaining “a decade of success” — but people are running out of reasons to believe.

United were never as impressive last term as their rivals’ shortcomings made them look, but they have regressed this season into a team without any kind of discernible identity or style. When Gary Neville, whose brother is on the coaching staff, and Paul Scholes sounded so aghast on Sky Sports at the performance against City, with Marouane Fellaini and Juan Mata so peripheral, it needs someone, other than poor Moyes, to explain why anyone should believe there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Ferguson could even shed some light on the appointment process. It was romanticised at the time but, in the light of what has happened since, that story of how Moyes, while in Manchester city centre to get his watch repaired, was asked to report to Ferguson’s house, where he was told the job was his, sounds like corporate negligence. Yes he then spoke to Joel Glazer, the co-chairman, and Ed Woodward, the executive vice-chairman, but the old pals’ act was already done, based, seemingly, on Moyes’s personal traits and his record with Everton rather than how he might approach the job.

Some accuse Ferguson of arrogance in appointing a manager he considered to be in his own image. A personal view is that, if anything, Ferguson was guilty of the opposite — underestimating how enormous a factor his mere presence had been and overestimating, on one hand, Moyes’s ability to keep things going and, on the other, the pedigree and mental fibre of some of the players.

The squad he left was far from his strongest, but if Ferguson’s faith in his players and in Moyes was misplaced, then it is no less innocent than the mistakes Sir Matt Busby made more than four decades ago in handing over an ageing squad to Wilf McGuinness and then Frank O’Farrell.

In 2014, though, Ferguson is being caught in the crossfire. As United capitulated on Tuesday night, the City supporters taunted him with “Fergie, Fergie, give us a wave”. He did not oblige. He is not waving, but his successor is drowning.
 
Tomalonge said:
Getting hell for pointing out the obvious now.

If he was getting sacked this season it would have already happened after one of the big derby defeats. You don't have to be a Glazer to figure that shit out.
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I don't agree. I think the last thing United would want to do is offer the illusion of credit to either of those two with the departure of Moyes.

Our season is not officially over until we go out of the Champions' League.
 
FlawlessThaw said:
I suspect that will be the case, or at least that is what I am clinging onto.
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I think that this is the case. Once we mathematically cannot qualify for CL via the league next season and we are knocked out of this year's CL the axe will probably fall.
 
Man-United said:
If we miss the Champions League next season, I will be shocked if he stays.
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I used to say this Christmas was the marker. I'm now beginning to think it could be the end of the season because they will want to reevaluate giving him the money to spend, as opposed to a world class manager's power to attract.
 
KeninDC said:
In 2014, though, Ferguson is being caught in the crossfire. As United capitulated on Tuesday night, the City supporters taunted him with “Fergie, Fergie, give us a wave”. He did not oblige. He is not waving, but his successor is drowning.
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Really enjoyed this line. Overall good article too.
 
entropy said:
Most clubs do not have the luxury of being Manchester United. The managers that you speak off have never replaced someone who has been as successful as fergie. It is an entirely different beast. Moyes has shown no evidence to support that he deserves more time and money but clearly it is a risk the board are willing to take. I wont be getting worked up about it but if these shitty half arsed school boy interviews continue next season I expect him to get sacked without any doubt.
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I'd say that Everton losing Moyes after 11 years was just as big for them as us losing Fergie. But they went on with things and are doing just fine.

I'd also like to point out, again, that Moyes's biggest failure is in one aspect that shouldn't be that affected by the whole 26.5 years thing: The first team. None of the players worked with Fergie for that period, quite a few have them have only been with us a few years, some only a year, before he joined. Some were coached by other managers for longer periods. It shouldn't have had that sort of affect - with the right man at the helm.

It just shouldn't be about who we are or how it is we like to do things. It should be about whether there's anything to indicate he's the right man for the job. I don't honestly think there's even one thing to indicate that. Well, other than Scottishness.

I doubt it's a risk that the board are willing to take. More like a bunch of people without any football knowledge being told by the two footballing men int he club that it'll be alright.
 
Some very reliable reporters are coming out with rumors and stories of unrest. Not saying its true but Moyes could be a dead man walking after Bayern next week. Hell it could be sooner if Aston Villa were to get something at the weekend. I want to say losing to Villa would be the final nail in the coffin but you just can't tell anymore. I guess if the players come out and look uninterested we will know it is over for Moyes.
 
Wazza1 said:
Some very reliable reporters are coming out with rumors and stories of unrest. Not saying its true but Moyes could be a dead man walking after Bayern next week. Hell it could be sooner if Aston Villa were to get something at the weekend. I want to say losing to Villa would be the final nail in the coffin but you just can't tell anymore. I guess if the players come out and look uninterested we will know it is over for Moyes.
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He'll get a fair chance at Bayern, and he should. He's brought us to the quarter finals and he should have a fair shot at it. It wouldn't be right to do it before. But if we get eliminated, I really hope he's gone.
 
There's absolutely no way they'll sack him before our biggest game of the season. Maybe if there's the appetite for a change they might do it after we get knocked out, but I'd still be amazed if he didn't make it to the end of the season.
 
Brophs said:
There's absolutely no way they'll sack him before our biggest game of the season. Maybe if there's the appetite for a change they might do it after we get knocked out, but I'd still be amazed if he didn't make it to the end of the season.
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I'd be amazed if he didn't make it to the end of next season.
 
Ian Herbert (most of his piece is just rehashing the woes, but this stood out);

A number of Sir Alex Ferguson's retired former players are understood to have reached the view that the club needs to act swiftly to change manager and that United would be wrong to give Moyes the £150m summer investment intended to deliver the club – on course to miss out even on Europa League qualification for next season – back into the Champions League the season after. Paul Scholes' decision to make a first appearance as a Sky Sports pundit on Tuesday – for a game which his former club seemed likely to lose – was made in the full knowledge that he might have to deliver heavy criticism of Moyes' team. He did not hold back.

Scholes' willingness to work with United's Under-19s team in this season's Uefa Youth League, travelling to Real Sociedad and Shakhtar Donetsk as Nicky Butt's assistant, revealed a desire to renew his involvement. But after United's elimination at the group stage that came to an abrupt end.

The level of abuse directed at Moyes and his predecessor Ferguson by United fans was substantially greater during the 3-0 defeat to City than in the dismal loss to Liverpool by the same scoreline. The chant of "20 times, 20 times Manchester United" – an allusion to the club's number of domestic titles – was accompanied by ironic cheers on Tuesday, while after the Liverpool loss it was sung in defiance, for fully 20 minutes. The club are by no means impervious to the views and mood of the fans. They will be taken into account this summer, despite the club's official stance that Moyes will be leading the effort to rebuild for next season.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ews-of-fans-could-have-influence-9217806.html
 
Tomalonge said:
Getting hell for pointing out the obvious now.

If he was getting sacked this season it would have already happened after one of the big derby defeats. You don't have to be a Glazer to figure that shit out.
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If it were to happen, it would be when we are knocked out of the CL. That's the one last hope the board are holding out on I reckon.
 
Freak said:
He'll get a fair chance at Bayern, and he should. He's brought us to the quarter finals and he should have a fair shot at it. It wouldn't be right to do it before. But if we get eliminated, I really hope he's gone.
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I think it's more a question of when and how badly we get eliminated. 'cause going out to this Bayern team is no shame but if we get the mauling of our life then that should be it for Moyes.
 
Amir said:
I'd say that Everton losing Moyes after 11 years was just as big for them as us losing Fergie. But they went on with things and are doing just fine.
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Come on! Its not just about the length of service but the honours won. You could make that case for Wenger when he leaves, but even then, nowhere near to the same degree. There is no equivalent to us losing SAF for any other team, I understand people feel this point is overdone and maybe it is but you are going too far the other way to compare these two situations.
 
NK86 said:
I think it's more a question of when and how badly we get eliminated. 'cause going out to this Bayern team is no shame but if we get the mauling of our life then that should be it for Moyes.
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That's an interesting point. If we we under Fergie at the moment I think a heavy defeat would still be possible, albeit less likely. It happened to Barca, after all. And obviously that wouldn't come with any repercussions for his position, as Bayern are just so good. So I suppose it could be argued that Moyes shouldn't be under any greater pressure to get a result given the side he's facing. But in reality I think the pain of being humiliated would send a lot of people on Moyes' side or, more likely, on the fence, into the Moyes out camp. Not so much because of the result but because it would be just another sign of the lack of signs of progress and it's the last important game of the season.
 
Amir said:
I'd say that Everton losing Moyes after 11 years was just as big for them as us losing Fergie. But they went on with things and are doing just fine.

I'd also like to point out, again, that Moyes's biggest failure is in one aspect that shouldn't be that affected by the whole 26.5 years thing: The first team. None of the players worked with Fergie for that period, quite a few have them have only been with us a few years, some only a year, before he joined. Some were coached by other managers for longer periods. It shouldn't have had that sort of affect - with the right man at the helm.

It just shouldn't be about who we are or how it is we like to do things. It should be about whether there's anything to indicate he's the right man for the job. I don't honestly think there's even one thing to indicate that. Well, other than Scottishness.

I doubt it's a risk that the board are willing to take. More like a bunch of people without any football knowledge being told by the two footballing men int he club that it'll be alright.
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Come on mate, you cannot be seriously comparing us losing fergie who won titles to someone who wasn't under any such sort of pressure. You can draw parallels but both clubs face totally different challenges every season. I am surprised at how well Everton are doing under Martinez but it isn't something their fans have not experienced under Moyes. If Everton can actually carry their form from this season into the next, that would be some achievement for Martinez. You are right, Moyes has hardly shown any positives for us fans to get behind him. He is not making it easy for anyone, from the fans to the board members he is testing everyone's patience.
 
A Bayern mauling won't be the end of his reign, I'm almost certain of that. We got a mauling at the hands of both City and Liverpool at home, which is far worse. Obviously you wouldn't say 0-3 is a thrashing, but at home, it's still a deeply embarrassing result. Just the Liverpool game on its own was a sackable offence at any big club that isn't living in cuckoo land.
 
Ringo 07 said:


What a great interview. This man has an aura and football philosophy that Moyes could never even dream of having. This man is everything Moyes is not
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Damn. Imagine if he succeeded Moyes. He's obviously open to a change at some point in the future. Hopefully it's to us.
 
My faith in Moyes is slowly being eaten away after every game we play. Even if we are royally beaten by Bayern, home & away, they won't get rid of Moyes. He'll be given the summer to bring in players, rebuild and see where next season ends up. If no improvement by Christmas, he'll be gone.

I feel for Moyes. With every dropped point, goal conceded, bad performance; the confidence he has just seems to be zapped away from him and nut just the players. If he is going to succeed at this job, he needs to have confidence in himself and he just doesn't seem to have that at the moment. Having said that, I do feel that we do seem to be attacking with a bit more freedom than at the start of the season, but with no real end product or conviction. Are lack of goals, especially at home, is costing us big time. No-one in midfield is taking it amongst themselves to put a pass forward. The midfielders seem to be scared in case they lose the ball so they pass it to the midfielder next to them or play it back. We lack a leader in our midfield. Someone who takes control of the ball and plays with a bit conviction and moves the ball around the park with ease. Our current crop of midfielders are struggling with the ball and just don't know what to do with it. Moyes needs to bring in a midfielder who will lead the team. Giggs did it against Olympiakos but he isn't getting any younger so we can't rely on him all the time.

Come the summer, Moyes will need to take a long hard look at his own performance, as well as his teams. He needs to come back next season with a bit more fight about it. He needs to realise fast that he is at a massive club, stooped in history and we go into every game to win. Not to make it difficult of the opposition, not to try and get a result but to win, no matter how much stronger the opposition look on paper. Fergie had that ability of getting the players to believe they could beat anyone and sure enough it worked, especially when other clubs were throwing millions at their teams to invest. Moyes needs to find his own fire, his own way of getting it across to his players that they are playing for the red jersey of Manchester United. They are playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world and that they can beat any team. Without that fire, he has no chance in getting anything across to his players and is not worthy of managing a club the size of United.
 
I dont think the Bayern game will have any bearing on Moyes' position whatever happens, except for possibly timing. The owners will know now whether they want to get rid of Moyes in the summer or not, it is possible they are waiting until the formality of our defenestration from the CL has been confirmed before they announce anything but I doubt it. If they are going to get rid itll be in the summer, but as time passes I am more and more convinced he'll be our manager when next season starts. A drubbing by Bayern is a lot less humiliating and significant than a drubbing at the hands of hated domestic rivals, quite the contrary. I guess if we won the CL that could possibly sway the owners, if they were thinking he had to go, but given that is not going to happen there is little point speculating about that.
 
Shark22 said:
A Bayern mauling won't be the end of his reign, I'm almost certain of that. We got a mauling at the hands of both City and Liverpool at home, which is far worse. Obviously you wouldn't say 0-3 is a thrashing, but at home, it's still a deeply embarrassing result. Just the Liverpool game on its own was a sackable offence at any big club that isn't living in cuckoo land.
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No, individually, this tie may not have the effect. But that could be the climax of what has been an awful season. When there is literally nothing to play for after this. No more big games, no more knock outs matches.
 
Klopp's an amazing character. He is basically your perfect manager.
 
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