Moyes So Far!

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Mel_F said:
The only bit I care about in that Castles article is that there is a clause in Moyes contract which allows termination at a cheaper cost.
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I'd be highly surprised if there aren't a hat full of clauses in that contract. That's the one point where being experienced in the NFL helps, most every contract there is built teeming with clauses, get outs, and bonuses(not that we have to worry on that front).
 
I wish Wayne Rooney would shut the f**k up about "doing it for the fans as they have been brilliant"

It's patronizing shit! And I have seen shag all giving back to the fans for their incredible support
 
Miguel Delaney also saying Moyes' future definitely isn't guaranteed, though he's pointing to commercial reaction rather than fan reaction dictating things.

So, three possible ways Moyes gets sacked. Either a) the players revolt, b) the fans revolt or c) the sponsors revolts. Which do we think is more likely?

You'd imagine it'll take more than humiliation against Bayern to do it though, with poor results against the likes of Villa, Newcastle or Everton needed to push things over the edge.
 
Also, this bit:
Moyes' managerial decisions have fomented grave internal dissent within United's coaching, scouting and recruitment staff. A strategy of attributing under-performance to the allegedly severely sub-standard squad he inherited from Ferguson has proved particularly divisive.
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Maybe I'm so willing to believe this because I've had enough of Moyes, but if it were true, I can fully imagine Moyes seriously believing that this season's losses are not his fault, and that Ferguson left him a shit squad. Then I get an irrational level of anger building inside me.
 
There is less enthusiasm for Moyes’s preference for more structured sessions centred on team shape and organisation
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Aye because our team shape has been much better this year too, I'd love to watch us train for a week because whatever we're doing isn't ending up on the pitch come the weekend.
 
sullydnl said:
Miguel Delaney also saying Moyes' future definitely isn't guaranteed, though he's pointing to commercial reaction rather than fan reaction dictating things.

So, three possible ways Moyes gets sacked. Either a) the players revolt, b) the fans revolt or c) the sponsors revolts. Which do we think is more likely?

You'd imagine it'll take more than humiliation against Bayern to do it though, with poor results against the likes of Villa, Newcastle or Everton needed to push things over the edge.
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The players revolt and all speaking out would be the only one to definitely seal his fate.
 
Earthquake said:
I'd be highly surprised if there aren't a hat full of clauses in that contract. That's the one point where being experienced in the NFL helps, most every contract there is built teeming with clauses, get outs, and bonuses(not that we have to worry on that front).
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The PR angle makes a lot of sense given that a 6-year contract for someone unproven seemed hugely risky. I'm not sure anyone realistically foresaw us doing this badly, but hopefully there's a non-europe clause in there somewhere.
 
Mihajlovic said:
My favourite part.
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I thought that would've been obvious. I never understood people saying we'd have to pay him 20 odd million to pay him off. There is absolutely no chance even United would have been stupid enough to put no clauses in.
 
sullydnl said:
Miguel Delaney also saying Moyes' future definitely isn't guaranteed, though he's pointing to commercial reaction rather than fan reaction dictating things.

So, three possible ways Moyes gets sacked. Either a) the players revolt, b) the fans revolt or c) the sponsors revolts. Which do we think is more likely?

You'd imagine it'll take more than humiliation against Bayern to do it though, with poor results against the likes of Villa, Newcastle or Everton needed to push things over the edge.
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Well after the Villa game we have a home game against Bayern, then 3 away games on the trot to Newcastle, Bayern and finally Everton so that might just do it. Can anyone realistically see us winning any of those 4? We'd have a hard time winning those games with Sir Alex in charge, and only really expect a win against Newcastle, let alone us now with Moyes.
 
Sixpence said:
The players revolt and all speaking out would be the only one to definitely seal his fate.
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If anything I can see the sponsors one being the biggest difference for the Glazers. If it was the players, then Fergie would think sell those players instead, wouldn't let player power dictate proceedings. Fans are just fans and can be won over pretty easily he'd think. If main sponsors start threatening to leave, then the whole financial structure of the club goes tits up.
 
Ringo 07 said:
David Moyes left Ferguson 'furious' after backroom changes

http://www.givemesport.com/447271-d...n-furious-after-backroom-changes?tg=/football

Sir Alex Ferguson was left ‘furious’ after David Moyes re-shaped the backroom staff he had inherited at Manchester United after the former Everton manager had promised he would not disrupt the coaching set-up. Well, at least that is according to Richard Keys.

Moyes reached another nadir as Manchester United boss on Tuesday night as a trouncing handed out by Manchester City at Old Trafford led to angry fans attempting confront the manager while he was in the dugout.

And, it would appear, Moyes attracted anger right from the star of his Manchester United reign, after the Scot went back on an agreement he had with Ferguson after being handpicked to become the club’s next manager.

“I learned this week one of the agreements Fergie had with Moyes was that he wouldn't disrupt the backroom staff,” Keys wrote in his latest blog, which is often the source of much amusement. “Fergie was furious when he did.”

Moyes decided to ring a host of changes to the Manchester United coaching staff, with Steve Round, Chris Woods and Jimmy Lumsden taking up the same roles they had at Goodison Park, while Phil Neville was inducted into the backroom after retiring at Everton.

This meant Mike Phelan, trusted assistant to Ferguson during their time together at Manchester United, was relieved of his duties while Rene Meulensteen also departed, although Moyes claims he wanted the latter to stay.

Ryan Giggs was also added to the coaching ranks, most likely on the recommendation of Ferguson, while long-serving goalkeeping coach Eric Steele departed.
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This article strikes me as bullshit, but assuming it's true, I think it's worrying that SAF felt he could dictate personnel decisions to Moyes. Although it obviously hasn't worked out, I've always felt that Moyes was well within his rights to bring in his own people. The outgoing manager, no matter how much of a legend, needs to let the new guy get on with it in the way he sees fit. If there's any truth to this story, and again I'm sceptical, this would shed some light on why SAF didn't someone like Mourinho, the kind of manager who would never even allow such a conversation to take place.
 
This player revolt, who would the players go to? Ferguson would tell them to get fecked. Woodward would still be on the plane from pre-season. The Glazer's? Somehow I can't picture Ferdinand sitting down with Malcolm.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
This player revolt, who would the players go to? Ferguson would tell them to get fecked. Woodward would still be on the plane from pre-season. The Glazer's? Somehow I can't picture Ferdinand sitting down with Malcolm.
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"Yeeaaaaaaaaah!!! Cum' on then uncle Malc, let's 'ave it!! Proper geezer style. Wooo!!!"

Insightful stuff Rio
 
jem said:
This article strikes me as bullshit, but assuming it's true, I think it's worrying that SAF felt he could dictate personnel decisions to Moyes. Although it obviously hasn't worked out, I've always felt that Moyes was well within his rights to bring in his own people. The outgoing manager, no matter how much of a legend, needs to let the new guy get on with it in the way he sees fit. If there's any truth to this story, and again I'm sceptical, this would shed some light on why SAF didn't someone like Mourinho, the kind of manager who would never even allow such a conversation to take place.
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I think it would have been quite clear that Moyes should have kept at least one member of Fergie's staff in place, someone who knew the players and the club. I think that's perfectly reasonable, more than anything it's common sense. Mourinho has done it at Chelsea, Pellegrini has done it at city so what makes Moyes different? fecking ineptitude by the sounds of it.
 
SirFergie said:
I think it would have been quite clear that Moyes should have kept at least one member of Fergie's staff in place, someone who knew the players and the club. I think that's perfectly reasonable, more than anything it's common sense. Mourinho has done it at Chelsea, Pellegrini has done it at city so what makes Moyes different? fecking ineptitude by the sounds of it.
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On the other hand, he doesn't have to worry about his senior coaches also thinking he's not up to it, which would make his sacking even likelier. One thing you can say about Moyes - he's trying to make it hard for them to sack him.
 
More from the Guardian.
Paul Scholes lends credence to whispers of imminent Manchester United revolt
Football fans everywhere love a good conspiracy theory, so here are the beginnings of one over which to chew (warning: may be half-baked). The reclusive Paul Scholes, a good friend of Ryan Giggs who appears to have been marginalised as both a player and coach by David Moyes, makes a surprise appearance on Sky Sports to help analyse a Manchester derby. With the kind of ruthless no-frills precision that marked out his passing as a player, he takes a scalpel to his former team's many shortcomings under the post-Ferguson regime: lack of pace and penetration, questionable selections, underperforming big-name purchases, a manager that still doesn't know his best side.

In mitigation, Scholes cites extenuating circumstances and says the club has "got to stand by" Moyes, but the tacit criticism is clear. Another grenade sent rolling into a dressing room rumoured to be approaching the brink of mutiny, perfectly weighted by one of United's respected players, not only of recent years but all time. Considering how reluctantly and infrequently Scholes airs his views in public, it's only natural to question the timing of Tuesday night's TV appearance and headline-making comments. Marouane Fellaini? "You'd expect better to be honest". Last night's starting 11? "Toothless". Juan Mata? "Quality ... in his right position." Cited in Sir Alex Ferguson's latest autobiography as "a man of excellent opinions", Scholes was always going to cause a stir.

Scholes' most high-profile recent and equally revelatory screen excursion was in the excellent Class of '92 documentary last year, alongside Gary and Phil Neville, and other club stalwarts who learned at Sir Alex Ferguson's knee. Now a respected pundit and Manchester United coach respectively, some insight into the two brothers' private, possibly contrasting ruminations on Tuesday night's man of the match performance from their good friend and former team-mate would be interesting to glean. With the Old Trafford natives growing increasingly restless with their manager's apparent haplessness, Scholes' comments will do little to silence whispers of an imminent Machiavellian revolt masterminded by some of the club's most faithful servants.

Of course, as unlikely as it seems, there is every chance that the famously publicity-shy Scholes simply fancied an evening of green room hospitality, pampering by makeup and a seat in front of sweltering TV lights offering forthright opinions to the Sky anchor Ed Chamberlin along with his fellow analyst Graeme Souness.

It's also far from inconceivable that he's so stereotypically "northern" that mouthing the kind of bland, obvious and uncontroversial opinions for which so many more experienced analysts are renowned is simply beyond him.

What is hard to countenance is that such a shrewd and intelligent man can be unaware of the media hubbub his influential comments would generate, which once again leads to the question: why would somebody so obviously averse to courting publicity bother pouring petrol on the flames of dissatisfaction already threatening to engulf Old Trafford?

On an evening of derby day humiliation when a section of United fans publicly turned on the watching Sir Alex Ferguson for his choice of successor, it was reported that Moyes couldn't get out of the press room fast enough when the subject of Scholes' criticism of Juan Mata was raised in his post-match media briefing. He replied that he thought Mata had played well in defeat and promptly walked out of the door. Quite what he'll make of the rest of the Old Trafford hero's blunt and astute appraisal of the shortcomings he so often seems at a loss to rectify is anyone's guess, although he may at least gain a sliver of much-needed consolation and amusement from the encore of punditry's new star-turn. Scholes' assault on Arsenal was predictably two-footed, but it's his softly spoken criticism of United that will leave the scars.
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Ubik said:
On the other hand, he doesn't have to worry about his senior coaches also thinking he's not up to it, which would make his sacking even likelier. One thing you can say about Moyes - he's trying to make it hard for them to sack him.
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Trying to make it hard how? after every defeat he says "Blame me", they can just bring that up and say, "you are taking the blame, so you feel its your fault, out of mutual agreement we feel its best to terminate your contract".
 
Ubik said:
On the other hand, he doesn't have to worry about his senior coaches also thinking he's not up to it, which would make his sacking even likelier. One thing you can say about Moyes - he's trying to make it hard for them to sack him.
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Maybe he should try winning the odd game against a decent team. :rolleyes:
 
TheNewEra said:
Trying to make it hard how? after every defeat he says "Blame me", they can just bring that up and say, "you are taking the blame, so you feel its your fault, out of mutual agreement we feel its best to terminate your contract".
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Wasn't being entirely serious with that bit. I think it's the easiest sacking you could hope for.
 
jem said:
This article strikes me as bullshit, but assuming it's true, I think it's worrying that SAF felt he could dictate personnel decisions to Moyes. Although it obviously hasn't worked out, I've always felt that Moyes was well within his rights to bring in his own people. The outgoing manager, no matter how much of a legend, needs to let the new guy get on with it in the way he sees fit. If there's any truth to this story, and again I'm sceptical, this would shed some light on why SAF didn't someone like Mourinho, the kind of manager who would never even allow such a conversation to take place.
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While it's within his rights to do it, it was probably the mistake that will cost him his job. He replaced a staff who knew what they were doing with a group of men who have done nothing remarkable as coaches and are essentially yes men. If he had kept the previous staff and taken Fergie's approach for the first few seasons, he could have adapted it to his liking slowly without upsetting the applecart. Instead, he came in and changed everything. He's failed miserably at transitioning because of it and has no one but himself to blame.
 
I don't think Moyes feels threatened at the moment, that's why he's taking the blame.

The moment he starts to blame the players is the moment I know he's become under serious pressure from the club.
 
Sir Matt said:
While it's within his rights to do it, it was probably the mistake that will cost him his job. He replaced a staff who knew what they were doing with a group of men who have done nothing remarkable as coaches and are essentially yes men. If he had kept the previous staff and taken Fergie's approach for the first few seasons, he could have adapted it to his liking slowly without upsetting the applecart. Instead, he came in and changed everything. He's failed miserably at transitioning because of it and has no one but himself to blame.
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No doubt, he has to live with his decisions, almost all of which have been disastrous. I just don't think SAF had the right to be furious at Moyes for making his own staff decisions. I was under the impression that any new manager would have complete control over these things. But again, I think Moyes has to face the consequences for our team's utterly horrendous performance this year.
 
Danny1982 said:
I don't think Moyes feels threatened at the moment, that's why he's taking the blame.

The moment he starts to blame the players is the moment I know he's become under serious pressure from the club.
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He already blamed the players in the past. Then you have all these "continue to support me, please!" pleads and letters which to me looks like he's feeling the heat no doubt.
 
Skywarden said:
He already blamed the players in the past. Then you have all these "continue to support me, please!" pleads and letters which to me looks like he's feeling the heat no doubt.
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True.

More and more by his mouth he's starting to sound like a politician under a crisis than a regular pissed off Premier League manager.
 
I'd love it if Fergie was thinking along the lines of ....Let Moyes get the players in over the summer he needs so that Fergie doesn't take the flak if the big names don't come in, Get Queiroz back in......and then boot out Moyes early next season after Utd's first shocking loss so that everything is set up for Fergie to make a come back and take over for 1 final season to get us back into the Champions League before appointing a proper world class manager in the summer of 2015...wishful thinking I know
 
Ringo 07 said:
I'd love it if Fergie was thinking along the lines of ....Let Moyes get the players in over the summer he needs so that Fergie doesn't take the flak if the big names don't come in, Get Queiroz back in......and then boot out Moyes early next season after Utd's first shocking loss so that everything is set up for Fergie to make a come back and take over for 1 final season to get us back into the Champions League before appointing a proper world class manager in the summer of 2015...wishful thinking I know
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Summer 2015... not that wishful thinking as it sounds. If the club lose it's financial stability because of the results nothing will save long term project called 'David Moyes'.

Money matters even in Manchester United.
 
Can you imagine how optimistic this place and United fans in general around the world would be if Moyes was relieved of his duties before the summer transfer window?
 
Pexbo said:
Can you imagine how optimistic this place and United fans in general around the world would be if Moyes was relieved of his duties before the summer transfer window?
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Would be the best moment of the season with respects to Manchester United and club football.
 
Pexbo said:
Can you imagine how optimistic this place and United fans in general around the world would be if Moyes was relieved of his duties before the summer transfer window?
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It's everyone's dream and it will certainly happen eventually as Moyes has proven that he is nothing more than a 'park the bus' long ball specialist with not a single other trick up his sleeve but he's probably worked his ass off scouting and trying to get some new players in and maybe the board will give him a chance to bring some of those top class players in.....Kroos and Carvalho would be outstanding signings for any team and fingers crossed we can get players of that level here but with Moyes you wouldn't be surprised if our only summer signing was Osman for £32 million
 
There's some serious talk regarding a group of fans having hired a plane bearing a Moyes out banner to fly over Old Trafford for the Villa game.
 
Kin ell :lol: Can you imagine, tell them I will do a skydive from it, spelling Moyes out in red smoke emitting from my shoes, I will then land in front of the dug out in my Moyes out t-shirt and only to streak across the pitch with Moyes out on my bare arse.
 
gasmanc said:
Kin ell :lol: Can you imagine, tell them I will do a skydive from it, spelling Moyes out in red smoke emitting from my shoes, I will then land in front of the dug out in my Moyes out t-shirt and only to streak across the pitch with Moyes out on my bare arse.
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They've nearly raised enough apparently. It genuinely seems a goer.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Aye because our team shape has been much better this year too, I'd love to watch us train for a week because whatever we're doing isn't ending up on the pitch come the weekend.
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Yep that's the part I don't understand.

We seem to have no shape or cohesion to our play this season, so I have no idea what our coaching staff are doing in training :(
 
Pexbo said:
Can you imagine how optimistic this place and United fans in general around the world would be if Moyes was relieved of his duties before the summer transfer window?
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I think the caf would melt down.

A million Klopp threads would instantly be started! :)
 
Pexbo said:
Can you imagine how optimistic this place and United fans in general around the world would be if Moyes was relieved of his duties before the summer transfer window?
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It'll certainly be the highlight of this season. :D
 
A player revolt with the support fully behind the players that brought them joy simply must happen now. Force the change.

I'm actively starting to dislike the bloke. He's banging on about rebuilding again. He was given a championship-winning team, full of great guys, full of winners, and has met this challenge like an absolute baby. He's played the blame game from the first day, whether it be fixtures, media or playing squad.

When he's an old man I'd like to think he'd regret the arrogant way in which he's met this challenge. Had he accepted it with some bollocks, with outward excitement, with an appreciation of what he had to work with instead of glum pessimism, perhaps things may have been different. Had he had the self-awareness to acknowledge what the club is all about and looked to change his Everton-like approach into a more progressive one, perhaps with the help of somebody a little more tactical, instead of his brick-wall pals then, again, it could have been so different.

Either way, he stays and we spend money, we might finish fourth, but he'll still be a loser and we'll just be delaying the inevitable.
 
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