Moyes So Far!

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That's absolutely fine and understandable.

I've always said that I've got the patience of a musician. I've seen some of the least naturally talent people struggle through for years then one day it clicks. I'm hoping (not expecting) this is the case with Moyes. He certainly doesn't give the impression of a natural.

I'm quite patient and was willing to spend a season or two away from honours and trophies or even challenging for them. But my patience ran out when I realised we weren't even looking like a team with a manager who knew what our problems were much less doing anything to address them.

Someone posted here last night that by now after the season we've had we should least see signs of green shoots, even if we do get beat a lot. We should be well into the period of "Well, we lost but you can see what he's trying to do". Instead the season is in its dusk and we're all still asking "WTF is he trying to do?". We should at least be playing well, even if we don't get the results. We're not back to square one as that'd indicate we ever left, which we haven't.

There's only so much lack of progression that I could tolerate. Even if we never challenged for the title for the next 3 years if it was evident what the manager was building towards and that he had a clue then I'd not love it but most of us would accept it. But we're not even beginning to learn the lessons that IMO a competent coach would have noticed in pre-season training let alone getting to April and still looking as if he doesn't have a clue what's going wrong.
 


The quote from Ross Barclay about Martinez compared to Moyes in there is terrifying:

Ross Barclay said:
"He's similar to David Moyes as they both like to take over the training session and be the main man but Martinez is more tactical. We do a lot more tactical work which is good for me because I'm young and still learning."

Disturbingly, that echoes a lot of what Van Persie had been saying about how last year we did loads of tactical work in training under Muelensteen, but nowhere near as much now. What does Moyes have the players doing in training? Just running up and down the pitch?
 
I'm quite patient and was willing to spend a season or two away from honours and trophies or even challenging for them. But my patience ran out when I realised we weren't even looking like a team with a manager who knew what our problems were much less doing anything to address them.

Someone posted here last night that by now after the season we've had we should least see signs of green shoots, even if we do get beat a lot. We should be well into the period of "Well, we lost but you can see what he's trying to do". Instead the season is in its dusk and we're all still asking "WTF is he trying to do?". We should at least be playing well, even if we don't get the results. We're not back to square one as that'd indicate we ever left, which we haven't.

There's only so much lack of progression that I could tolerate. Even if we never challenged for the title for the next 3 years if it was evident what the manager was building towards and that he had a clue then I'd not love it but most of us would accept it. But we're not even beginning to learn the lessons that IMO a competent coach would have noticed in pre-season training let alone getting to April and still looking as if he doesn't have a clue what's going wrong.
Well your definition of patience and mine appear to be two very different things. Only difference.

Think the Moyes criticism is going way overboard now so I'll stay out of the FF for a bit, it's making for some very frustrating reading at the moment. Way too negative for me.
 
Moyes' hands-on training approach, coupled with the fact he got rid of much of the senior coaching staff is something he deserves far more stick for than he gets even here. Not knowing the limits of your own ability or the benefits of the experience of others is probably his most cardinal sin. I understand he wanted to work with who he was familiar with but if he couldn't see a problem with taking the management of a successful team and gutting it for the sake of he wanting to have his made to drive to training with, then it puts all our other problems into context.
 
Well your definition of patience and mine appear to be two very different things. Only difference.

Think the Moyes criticism is going way overboard now so I'll stay out of the FF for a bit, it's making for some very frustrating reading at the moment. Way too negative for me.

What are the positives? It's taken him until nearly April for last seasons run-away champions to look anywhere near half-decent against a side who isn't mid-table fodder or lower for a quarter of an hour?
 
Well your definition of patience and mine appear to be two very different things. Only difference.

Think the Moyes criticism is going way overboard now so I'll stay out of the FF for a bit, it's making for some very frustrating reading at the moment. Way too negative for me.
I think Plugsy is being very reasonable with his patience. Sorry if this offends you but I think you're trying to look for hope in an idealistic situation that he might come good.
 
The quote from Ross Barclay about Martinez compared to Moyes in there is terrifying:



Disturbingly, that echoes a lot of what Van Persie had been saying about how last year we did loads of tactical work in training under Muelensteen, but nowhere near as much now. What does Moyes have the players doing in training? Just running up and down the pitch?
Probably a lot fitness traiinings. Our players are fit as a fiddle but are shite at football. The work he has done with players like Rafael has been very evident this season. Rafael was the rightback who couldn't even complete a full match. Now give him 2 full matches in one week and he'll still be bombing up and down the flanks.
 
Offended? No, a ridiculous assumption.

Tired of reading the same old shite? Most certainly.

Well to be fair I'm tired of fans who preach this abstract notion of patience and loyalty just because they think they should. We're not stuck in an abusive marriage pre-dating the suffragette movement, there's no obligation to be loyal to patient with someone just because someone once told them they should be or they fear others would judge them badly if they weren't.

The club is sinking and we have a manager who has no clue how to fix it. At what point does patience run out because believe me even if next season we slip further down the table and your patience runs out they'll be someone like you now to come up to you and say "I'm bored of all this negativity, our idea of what patient means clearly differs."
 
It's also annoying that our joke of a summer transfer window now goes largely under the radar after due to our shitty season. The truth is that he has fecked things up since day one.
 
Probably a lot fitness traiinings. Our players are fit as a fiddle but are shite at football. The work he has done with players like Rafael has been very evident this season. Rafael was the rightback who couldn't even complete a full match. Now give him 2 full matches in one week and he'll still be bombing up and down the flanks.


Rafael completed pretty much all games he started last season. In fact, he has been more injured this season than the last one.
 
Its bound to be a remarkable coincidence that they all lost mental desire at the same time. Maybe it was something they each ate in late July.

That post was in direct response to another poster. Had you read my other posts or even thought about things a little, you would realise actually the character and fight has been there earlier this season. It has however gradually got less and less, eventually to the point it is now non-existant.

You seem to be implying Moyes is asking them not to fight and not to show desire when they go behind. This is most ridiculous, clearly Moyes wants them to show more desire. He has made many mistakes and he made some more last night but once we went 2- 0 behind there was little to no reaction from most of the players. I'm not sure how Moyes can be held responsible for such.

Something is wrong and either you back the players or the manager. Let Ferguson, Charlton and the board discuss this, they'll probably do what is right.



The players are not excused either especially if they do not give it 100%.
 
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Whilst i'm still behind Moyes, even if we did something miraculous and made it to the CL final or win our remaining games, I believe that he will never win the respect of the fans for many many years. Some of the bitterness towards him on social media, Redcafe, FB etc is just beyond reason really. Sure, every club will have fans that have a gripe with manager/players/board and so on, but for Moyes it may have gone too far.
It would take a massive title push next season to win many fans back...at least, maybe.
I'm behind him and will remain so until he fecks it up with a squad that he has built. That may be next season, maybe the season after, but I don't sit on the board and will have no say or input in to whether he stays or goes, so I may as well get behind him and see how it pans out - can't be any worse can it?
He will most probably get the duration of his contract to prove us right or wrong - that could be a bitter few years for those wanting him out so passionately now.

It'd be a miracle to even make the CL SF given we have this clown in charge.

Winning the remaining league games is what people would have EXPECTED under Sir Alex, now people think it'd be a miracle - again, down to the clown.

The title challenge is what a club with the resources of United should expect, the last time we finished outside the top TWO was over 10 years ago, till the clown came along.

I fully expect things to get much worse next season with Moyes in charge, 100m or so wasted and we still look clueless against anyone half decent, the excuses will include the World cup as if no one else had players in the World cup.
 
If Fergie came back now, given Arsenal's recent dip I wouldn't rule out top 4 in all honest. With Moyes, I wouldn't rule out 9th
 
This season has given me erectile dysfunction. Seriously, I've spent the last half an hour aspiring to get it up. It's just not happening. Oh well, lunch break over, back to work...
 
Offended? No, a ridiculous assumption.

Tired of reading the same old shite? Most certainly.

Perhaps it'd be prudent to stay away from Moyes thread, afterall, what do you expect in these threads after the abject performance last night (again)?

People praising him for the 15 min we didn't conceed? :lol:
 
Well to be fair I'm tired of fans who preach this abstract notion of patience and loyalty just because they think they should. We're not stuck in an abusive marriage pre-dating the suffragette movement, there's no obligation to be loyal to patient with someone just because someone once told them they should be or they fear others would judge them badly if they weren't.

The club is sinking and we have a manager who has no clue how to fix it. At what point does patience run out because believe me even if next season we slip further down the table and your patience runs out they'll be someone like you now to come up to you and say "I'm bored of all this negativity, our idea of what patient means clearly differs."
You've just speculated all of that.

What if the reason for my patience is that I'm a patient person.

Would it shock you to learn that Fergie's stand by your manager had precisely zero effect on me? Also I'm being reasonable, I've not spat my dummy out, just explained why I didn't want to stay in this debate for a few days. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just putting my own view forward.
 
If Fergie came back now, given Arsenal's recent dip I wouldn't rule out top 4 in all honest. With Moyes, I wouldn't rule out 9th

It's too late now even for Sir Alex, we could win all our remaining games and still be way short of 4th.

We should have got rid of Moyes back in Jan/Feb and Sir Alex could have rescued our season.
 
If Fergie came back now, given Arsenal's recent dip I wouldn't rule out top 4 in all honest. With Moyes, I wouldn't rule out 9th

Under Moyes we'll struggle not to lose at Everton, Newcastle and Southampton...

...I'm sure we'll go there and try to make it hard for them though.
 
Perhaps it'd be prudent to stay away from Moyes thread, afterall, what do you expect in these threads after the abject performance last night (again)?

People praising him for the 15 min we didn't conceed? :lol:

It's really sad. Really. Moyes apologists somehow tries to convince people that actually there were signs of improvement last night and we played good on periods of time.
 
I'm in a masochistic mood, anyone have a league table for 2014 only?
 
It's really sad. Really. Moyes apologists somehow tries to convince people that actually there were signs of improvement last night and we played good on periods of time.

Did you not expect us to lose that game and lose convincingly?

City were always going to be tough therefore I'm not so sure why people are so upset we lost.
 
Someone near me did sing "Moyesy Out Moyes Out Man United...." he might have been joking around, as he stopped after that, but I wonder if he had continue.

And how would that chant end? "To play football the Matt Busby way?"
 
Did you not expect us to lose that game and lose convincingly?

City were always going to be tough therefore I'm not so sure why people are so upset we lost.
Because it's another pile of shite being served on plate this season?
 
Did you not expect us to lose that game and lose convincingly?

City were always going to be tough therefore I'm not so sure why people are so upset we lost.
With Moyes I expect us to lose every game. Seriously.

That doesn't mean that he should be praised because we didn't concede during a period of 25 minutes against City, because we conceded only 3 against Liverpool, because we hit the post against Newcastle or because we beat the mighty Cardif City. When people start praising him for this, it is time to realize how the expectations have fallen when only 12 months ago we went to Madrid with the aspiration of winning. Now we expect to concede 10 goals against Bayern. But it will be alright as long as we manage to make a shoot in target, because that will be a big sign of improvement.
 
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Did you not expect us to lose that game and lose convincingly?

City were always going to be tough therefore I'm not so sure why people are so upset we lost.

City are a good side, but Bayern Munich they are NOT. Take a look at their away record this season and it's fair to say last night was one of their easiest wins the whole season.
 
Did you not expect us to lose that game and lose convincingly?

City were always going to be tough therefore I'm not so sure why people are so upset we lost.

When was the last time you went into a game, any game, before Moyes arrival and thought "we'll probably lose this convincingly"
Without even a glimmer of hope or a prayer of a performance? We're Man Utd for f**ks sake, Champions of England at home at Old Trafford and all we can think of is "We'll lose this game convincingly"? instead of confident, even if we get beaten we'd go down swinging with the best of them?
What the hell has happened to us over the last 8 months.
 
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league/2013-2014/custom-table


1Liverpool11920403815+2329
2Manchester City1081162256+1925
3Chelsea1292182274+2329
4Tottenham Hotspur12714431816+222
5Everton11623331512+320
6Arsenal12633531818021
7Southampton12534421920-118
8West Ham United11515531412+216
9Manchester United12525631615+117
10Stoke City12444131816+216
11Aston Villa11425331517-214
12Sunderland9324341112-111
13Crystal Palace1133536711-412
14Norwich City12345541016-613
15Newcastle United1241738919-1013
16Hull City11317361014-410
17West Bromwich Albion11245131118-710
18Swansea City12237221823-59
19Fulham12228141129-188
20Cardiff City12219171128-177

Just goes to show how lucky we are to support United. For all the terrible results and performances we've had to endure in 2014 we're still in the top half of the table!

Now, imagine what it's like to support a team that consistently flirts with relegation. Fair play to their season ticket holders. That really is impressive loyalty.
 
When was the last time you went into a game, any game before Moyes arrival and thought "we'll probably lose this convincingly"
Without even a glimmer of hope or a prayer of a performance? We're Man Utd for f**ks sake, Champions of England at home at Old Trafford and all we can think of is "We'll lose this game convincingly"? instead of confident, even if we get beaten we'd go down swinging with the best of them?
What he hell has happened to us over the last 8 months.

I just read somewhere that the odds of United to win the match next Tuesday at about 7.5 is the biggest odds on United to win a home game for over 25 years.
 
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