Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Do you seriously believe that this side can win the CL? I tend to be pretty creative myself however I cant see how the likes of Young, the former Everton beanpole and the 1 trick pony on the right can take on Messi, Iniesta and co.
Flukes do happen but bloody hell its evident that we lack quality to seriously compete for the CL.
Calm down dear - it's not that bad. Yet.
Regardless of what Moyes or any of us may privately think do you think it helps the players have belief and regain confidence after being smashed by City to hear the manager talk down the quality in the squad?
If I was in their position I would be frightened of losing my job and I would start performing. Some people fail to understand that Moyes is not in SAF's position. The latter was a legend and there was no chance in hell he'd lose his job. Moyes has alot to proof and can't afford having idiots taking him for a ride.
if we finish below tenth...I suspect that he will be relieved of his duties..and Fergie will come back for one season...whilst they think again...
what the feck
Considering in which player he spent 27.5m, owners would be idiots to give him money to spend now. We could easily end with a Liverpool scenario, buying expensive shit players who are in big wages and then get stucked with them.
To me it seems fairly obvious many of the players are thinking they have no future at United e.g. Hernandez's body language with Moyes is terrible, barely looks at him and seems angry all the time, Kagawa just looks baffled etc. There also appears to be a massive difference in the perception of the players towards their teammates than Moyes. This is visible in the way they celebrate and talk about the squad in their interviews and the way he does. I also think its quite clear there's a worry that the whole house is coming down. The way Giggs played and behaved against Liverpool was obviously not just the behaviour of a man with a point to prove but a man trying to banish nervousness from the side.
If he wants to talk to the owners, then nothing good will come out from exposing the team's real problems publicly like that. He's after all, the one who sanctioned so much money on the signing of Fellaini whereas he could have been gotten cheaper and way before. I hope the players aren't gonna let him down, I hope they're pro enough not to sink that shameful level.
Its unbelievable we're only six matches into a 38 match season and people have already written him off and want him out. The most read article today in the Guardian Football section is David Moyes: Where is it all going wrong?
What a joke. God I hope he proves all the doubters wrong and ends up doing the treble with us. What a bunch of spoilt brats United fans can be at times.
What a joke. God I hope he proves all the doubters wrong and ends up doing the treble with us. What a bunch of spoilt brats United fans can be at times.
I know that feel, brah.
After playing 7 games, winning 2, drawing 1 and loosing 3 is extremely bad as we are the defending champions. We are currently lying 12th in the league.
All the senior players should stand up and be counted upon.
However I also like the fact players are given a chance to proove themselves. Nani was good. Not sure why Kagawa was taken off. Our midfield pairing of Carrick and Ando did not look solid. Fellaini did not offer much either.
For you it's more out of laughter right ?
Nah, I'm sure he's just reminiscing about the good ol' times with Hodgson.
Moyes has some way to go before he goes Full Hodgson. He's learning it though. Still, no substitute for 37 years of experience in that regard.
The defeatist talk from Moyes is completely demoralising. Maybe he wants to dampen expectations but it's coming across as someone without that winning mentality and without that fight to win. It seems like just getting excuses in early which makes it harder for the fans to feel optimistic about the season going forward and who knows what it's doing to the players own confidence in themselves. I'd rather he came out all guns blazing tbh. Sometimes we didn't play well last season but got the result through sheer bloodymindedness and self belief. That team believed last season that no matter what the deficit in a game they could turn it around, and that mentality is what took us all the way to the title. Writing us off in the CL and making bad results seem perfectly OK is not what United fans are used to hearing at all.
Looking back, it does make me laugh at some of the outrageous shit he came out with. Seeing him treat England to the same has made the heart grow fonder.
if we finish below tenth...I suspect that he will be relieved of his duties..and Fergie will come back for one season...whilst they think again...
Tenth?! For one thing, that would never happen. Secondly, if we finish below tenth I believe Moyes will probably be charged with crimes against humanity.
We let Souness finish 6th two years in a row after taking over a title winning side. I think extending the same patience to Moyes is the least you can do.
Yeah, it's perfectly understandable that he believes the squad is in need of some major changes, incuding a star player or two, but that doesn't mean that the squad we currently have shouldn't be challenging on all fronts. It'd be piss poor if we didn't qualify for the last 16 of the CL and finish at least 3rd in the league with this squad IMO. He's not at Everton anymore, where he could just say 'we did our best' and 'we'll try to win next week'. He needs to adapt a completely different mentality here, and fast.
I agree.
I have faith in Moyes but he needs some PR training, he hasn't earned the goodwill or reputation of Fergie, who could say what he wanted because he was the boss and a winner. You can't come in and say the things he is saying, these players are judging you and comparing you to Fergie everyday. Say what you want about this team but no way West Brom beats us if Fergie was managing the team. The players Moyes has t his disposal are better than any you have ever coached, you should be beating West Brom at home. Currently the team doesn't look like a Championship winning side but anything outside the top for will baffle me with the squad we have, we will now more 15-20 league games.
Moyes has been here for few months and they have already lost hope of ever winning their place back? Jeez and they consider themselves top players? Mind you, I am not Moyes fan. Some of his tactics and choice of players have bordered to the ridiculous. However if these players cant accept competition and a new way of doing things then maybe they shouldnt be here in the first place.
We lost to shit teams at OT before. Heck, Bolton won twice in a row at Old Trafford under Fergie! Judging him on individual games is silly.
He must finish in the top four though, that is not up for debate. It would be an absolute farce if we ended up fifth or worse.
That is true, I am talking more about the manner of the defeat. Of course you can point to bad performances in a 27 year career. But coupled with the fact we had already had a shaky start I was far from impressed. With Moyes we have lost are aura and we need to get that back. I'm not really panicking to be honest, I expected this. But Moyes PR cock up's are what are annoying me more. He is making himself look like a novice.
Without having read through this entire thread, after the midweek and the weekends' results, I think it's fair to say that you guys are now the " game raising cnuts" (to use your favourite phrase) 
You think players perception of Moyes has affected them. What you think United players were thinking when they used to play Everton? A tough side, in your face, don't play pretty football, never title contenders. So when a manager they don't think much of in terms of play becomes your manager aren't old misgivings hard to get over?
Moyes was known for buying well, setting up sides hard to beat but never free flowing football. The positives of getting an experienced EPL manager has to be balanced against prejudices built up over time that can become ingrained in some.
Moyes was known for buying well, setting up sides hard to beat but never free flowing football. The positives of getting an experienced EPL manager has to be balanced against prejudices built up over time that can become ingrained in some.
Definitely.
I think we are somewhat stuck between the a rock and a hard place. For a manager to be given time and money to build his own team with poor performances, he needs to show something positive, or come with a history of success under his belt to illustrate that the aforementioned gamble is worth it. He needs to show what Rodgers showed at Liverpool or what Lambert showed at Villa; that the club is moving forward despite results not going their way.
Moyes will not and should not be given a blank cheque and years of time if he can't illustrate anything to show that this wouldn't be a monumental gamble. The fact is Liverpool for instance were correct in getting rid of Dalglish, despite not giving him years. Can you imagine if Liverpool stuck with him for 3-4 years and gave him more money to overpay for mid table talent? Liverpool certainly wouldn't be looking like a side that is steadily improving.
The fact is I currently struggle to think of a single positive thus far. He has been very poor in the transfer market, results have been awful, often team selection has been dire and he can't even use bringing through young players as an excuse. I also don't like the fact that Moyes talks as though he's been managing on Saturn for the last 10 years, acting like he had absolutely no clue as to any of our players' qualities or limitations, despite presumably watching them several times a season previously and hopefully researching and training them thoroughly over the Summer.
If it was me I'd be starting the next 4-5 games with the same strong team: DDG Rafael Evans Vidic Evra Nani Carrick Cleverley/Fellaini Valencia/Kagawa Rooney RVP.
I hope I am in a fecking nightmare and I will wake up to find Fergie by the touchline, looking at his watch on a saturday afternoon again!
Who ever said change was good clearly never Fergie in their lives!
Who ever said change was good clearly never Fergie in their lives!
I agree that he needs to go for some continuity - he is chopping and changing too much, one week a player is not even in the matchday squad and next week he starts - I cant remember that happening under Fergie too many times.
Moyes never really had many options at Everton and seems to be struggling to find the right balance in rotation with such a big squad.
There have been some positives, getting Nani on a new contract plus getting Rooney to good form (although he still needs to sign a new contract) and a couple of decent cup performances - but it has been a poor start to his United career so lets hope he finds the answers sooner rather than later.
I hope I am in a fecking nightmare and I will wake up to find Fergie by the touchline, looking at his watch on a saturday afternoon again!
Who ever said change was good clearly never Fergie in their lives!
The change was never going to be a seamless process. SAF made everything look so easy, but in reality he was just an absolute genius of a man. We've got to just accept that it's a level playing field now.
He should definitely start Cleverley more. He's actually looking sharp. Same goes for Nani and Rooney.
That's sarcasm, right? Fergie constantly rotated the shit out of the squad.
Read the sentence again - the point is not about rotation.
Nothing wrong with rotation, in fact it is vital when you are fighting on several fronts but you have to find the right balance between continuity and keeping everyone fresh - Moyes is struggling with that.
For me, Moyes needs to keep more or less the same 18 man squad for each game. Chopping and changing players isn't helping the situation right now, and the pressure is truly on us. My squad would be:
De Gea, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Evra, Carrick, Fellaini, Nani, Rooney, Kagawa, Van Persie (starting 11)
Lindegaard, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Zaha, Januzaj, Chicharito (subs)
For me the likes of Buttner and Young just aren't good enough. If Evra isn't available, then Fabio should be ahead of Buttner for the LB position. Giggs' experience will be used in certain games, as will Ferdinand's. Valencia and Welbeck may get chances at certain times, but I really do think at this moment in time with the bad form we find ourselves in, that we really should keep to a similar squad and try to get some continuity in place.
De Gea, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Evra, Carrick, Fellaini, Nani, Rooney, Kagawa, Van Persie (starting 11)
Lindegaard, Smalling, Jones, Cleverley, Zaha, Januzaj, Chicharito (subs)
For me the likes of Buttner and Young just aren't good enough. If Evra isn't available, then Fabio should be ahead of Buttner for the LB position. Giggs' experience will be used in certain games, as will Ferdinand's. Valencia and Welbeck may get chances at certain times, but I really do think at this moment in time with the bad form we find ourselves in, that we really should keep to a similar squad and try to get some continuity in place.
Dunno if anyone listens to the second captains podcast but Richie Sadler made a really interesting point about whichever manager takes over from Fergie. He reckons that a big reason Fergie always got teams to punch above their weight was because his place as manager of the club was assured as long as he wanted it. There could never be any doubt that he would be there next season, or the season after that. This meant that if we went through a dodgy spell the players had nobody to blame but themselves. They couldn't cop out by putting the blame on the manager, assuming he wasn't up to the job or incapable of steering them to the trophies they wanted. If they wanted to have successful careers the onus was 100% on them to up their fecking game and drag themselves out of this slump. If they could do that, history had proven that Fergie was the man to get them right up there at the end of the season.
United was almost unique in this regard. At very other club you had managerial churn and you would regularly hear reports about X "losing the dressing room", meaning players had decided their season was fecked and it wasn't their fault. This would be a particular problem when dealing with players with high opinions of themselves. Players who've already won a load of medals. Sound familiar?
I've no idea if Moyes is up to the job of replacing Fergie but am going to give him a fair crack of the whip on the basis that Fergie picked him for the job. I don't think people appreciate just how difficult his job is, though, and I find it interesting that people remain so convinced that falling out of the top four is inconceivable and that our squad is so good that we should continue being no less succesful than we've been in recent years under Fergie. I reckon they're in for a very rude awakening and it could well be a case of years, rather than months, of under-achievement before United start to dominate again. In fact, there's every chance none of us will see a repeat of our recent period of sustained success again in our lifetime.
United was almost unique in this regard. At very other club you had managerial churn and you would regularly hear reports about X "losing the dressing room", meaning players had decided their season was fecked and it wasn't their fault. This would be a particular problem when dealing with players with high opinions of themselves. Players who've already won a load of medals. Sound familiar?
I've no idea if Moyes is up to the job of replacing Fergie but am going to give him a fair crack of the whip on the basis that Fergie picked him for the job. I don't think people appreciate just how difficult his job is, though, and I find it interesting that people remain so convinced that falling out of the top four is inconceivable and that our squad is so good that we should continue being no less succesful than we've been in recent years under Fergie. I reckon they're in for a very rude awakening and it could well be a case of years, rather than months, of under-achievement before United start to dominate again. In fact, there's every chance none of us will see a repeat of our recent period of sustained success again in our lifetime.
Does anyone actually think that? I have not seen many comments to that effect. And I doubt there are many who would expect us to ever have the kind of success we had under Fergie.
However, this squad should be challenging and top 4 is the minimum expectation as far as I am concerned - it will be a massive failure on Moyes' part if he does not acheive it.
That's exactly what I'm getting at.
Once you accept that Moyes won't get the same results out of this squad as Fergie did - and take into account the improvement in other teams - then top 4 is by no means guaranteed, whether or not Moyes has the chops to replace Fergie in the long term.
As much as I hope it happens I think going from 1st to 5th or below is a drop too far in one season.
I hope I'm wrong.
I hope I'm wrong.
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