I am prepared to give Moyes a full season, unless something unforeseeable and disastrous happens. If our European performance is unacceptable or if we fail to challenge for the Premier League title, then we should cut our losses. So far, the Moyes reign has been extremely worrying, but it is also very early. The most annoying aspect of Moyes' reign has been the cowardice he's shown in bringing in so many of his staff from Everton to replace with established world class set up of coaching and scouting already in place at United. I recall reading that Moyes said no to the possibility of signing Thiago Alcântara because he had not seen enough of the player, despite years of extensive scouting of the player by the previous regime at United. In the end, Moyes was forced to revert to the familiarly and mediocrity of what he knew in Marouane Fellaini. This is beyond frustrating and simply not good enough for a club of Manchester United's stature.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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May not expect him to be SAF Mk.II...But I certainly expect better than "Premiership Champions to getting beat by WBA" in 6 games....
Criticizing Moyes doesn't equal to chants of "Moyes out! ". Some people need take a breath and realize that some criticism is totally justified. These words he said about not being good enough for the CL, what are they supposed to achieve ? They just make a clown out of him and Utd.
We created only one shot on target in the first 45 min against city.
If we finish outside the top then he'll probably get sacked
I full expect SAF to do a Scholsey come back..
I don't know if Fergie would do that to his mate. Unfortunately I can see Fergie sticking by Moyes unless we're facing a relegation battle.
Sadly, I think it's only a dream..Expect or hope?
How are either of those things unacceptable or unforeseeable? Moyes himself has basically predicted one of those just this morning and in any season other than this one our start would already have made it difficult to win the league as our opponents would have ran riot.
I would have given time, if he's showing he's moving in the right direction
And right direction for a reigning champion of only last year is simply turn up and produce something solid, bad result happens, we've had our share of freakish moment under SAF as well. With all due respect, we are not Everton, new manager, transition and all for us doesn't mean it is ok to be in midtable. I'm not taking anything for granted, but the squad we have at the moment have won it all (bar CL for some), and there's no reason that they become midtable over the course of 5 months into the new season.
It could have been a freakish losing sequence, I really hope it is just that, but we have nothing to show so far, we're playing without tactical nous, without cohesion, and we also failed to score in open play for 5 games ("Can Manchester United Score? Manchester United always score" used to be our motto). We are relying on individual brilliances instead of collective play (with moment of brilliance as added bonus).
Hand in heart, how much confident we have if we're going against the like of Juventus, Dortmund, Bayern, PSG, when even City could rape us 4-0 and we just sit there taking it in the bump. And to rub salt over it, the players aren't even looking bothered that we got humiliated like that, turns up the next week and performing the same dross all over again (It's you Rio), when he is one of the most senior member in the squad. Where is the drive, pride and hunger to play for Manchester United?
As of now, there has been no indication of he is moving in the right direction, I will personally give him the benefits of doubt (although it is well documented I'm not his biggest fan). My point is that the 5 years given to SAF, Moyes have to earn it (just show that you bloody merit a benefits of doubt at least). Giving 5 years blindly to Moyes because of past history is equally stupid with sacking him in 6 months.
And right direction for a reigning champion of only last year is simply turn up and produce something solid, bad result happens, we've had our share of freakish moment under SAF as well. With all due respect, we are not Everton, new manager, transition and all for us doesn't mean it is ok to be in midtable. I'm not taking anything for granted, but the squad we have at the moment have won it all (bar CL for some), and there's no reason that they become midtable over the course of 5 months into the new season.
It could have been a freakish losing sequence, I really hope it is just that, but we have nothing to show so far, we're playing without tactical nous, without cohesion, and we also failed to score in open play for 5 games ("Can Manchester United Score? Manchester United always score" used to be our motto). We are relying on individual brilliances instead of collective play (with moment of brilliance as added bonus).
Hand in heart, how much confident we have if we're going against the like of Juventus, Dortmund, Bayern, PSG, when even City could rape us 4-0 and we just sit there taking it in the bump. And to rub salt over it, the players aren't even looking bothered that we got humiliated like that, turns up the next week and performing the same dross all over again (It's you Rio), when he is one of the most senior member in the squad. Where is the drive, pride and hunger to play for Manchester United?
As of now, there has been no indication of he is moving in the right direction, I will personally give him the benefits of doubt (although it is well documented I'm not his biggest fan). My point is that the 5 years given to SAF, Moyes have to earn it (just show that you bloody merit a benefits of doubt at least). Giving 5 years blindly to Moyes because of past history is equally stupid with sacking him in 6 months.
They seem aimless and at times a shambles.
He didn't actually say that though. He said we lack as many world class players as the top sides but we have experience. As with everything he says it gets overly analysed outside of context with increased emphasis on the negative.
Picking up another point (not from you Kouroux), if anyone really thinks that Mourinho or anyone else who may have come in would have maintained exactly the same coaching staff they live in another world. A new manager will always want to have their own people on their staff as they know and trust them. It's a massive change and it's going to take time. He knows that, the owners and SAF know that. There will be no rash decisions.
That's a given, when you make a interview, specially when you're a new coach at Utd, everything will be possibly turned to its most negative light. What he said was the truth and only a deluded idiot would think the opposite but to say it after two defeats where Utd was completely outclassed is just asking for awful interpretation and even more criticism.
I think moyes is probably guilty of being too reasonable with the press. Being honest and open with then. Will hopefully take on Fergie's sullen scot mantle soon enough.
Hopefully yeah, give nothing that they can use against you or give as least as possible. They're fecking vultures.
I was joking, just stating the kind of managers that are out there looking for work.
Just had a read back through the old 'Moyes To Succeed Ferguson Anyone' thread, and it's fair to say a LOT of people on this forum were strongly against the appointment of Moyes even before it became clear Fergie was leaving. I was one of them. I've warmed to him slightly. Not because I think he was the right man for the job, but because he's here now and he's trying his best. I feel a bit sorry for him. It's the hardest job in football following SAF and it's been made more difficult imo by getting rid of the coaching staff and not strengthening the team in the transfer window.
I think this will be a year of lessons learnt, hopefully Moyes will be a better more experienced manager at this level by the end of it.
I think this will be a year of lessons learnt, hopefully Moyes will be a better more experienced manager at this level by the end of it.
Ah.. sorry, I missed the obvious sarcasm.
When it comes to manager, there's always the options of hijacking them
It's not like Moyes is out of contract when we decided to hire him.
Mourinho's staff have won him league and CL titles and have experience at top teams in Europe... So it's not really comparable, and I doubt even Mourinho would have overseen such a mass exodus. If he did, we wouldn't have people making excuses for him like "it's a learning curve, it's a new experience, it's a step up into a huge club", when it was his own decision to contribute to the supposed reasons why we'd be struggling..
Well, that isn't saying anything beyond: Moyes hasn't won anything, he has no top club experience, all the rest of it. We know this. The board knew it when they gave him the job, Fergie knew it when he recommended him. The premise is obviously that he has what it takes to become a top club manager. He wasn't hired for his top club credentials, clearly not - so that possible stick to beat him with is going to be available until he wins something with us. The question is how much point there is to avail oneself of the stick at every opportunity while the man (along with his staff) has been on the job for half a dozen league matches.
If he had kept all the staff and our start had been identical I'm sure many would have used the fact against him: Not proactive, relying too much on Fergie's people, should take more chances and impose himself more - take your pick.
im not sure. im talking about playing him with rooney and kagawa simply isnt doing it at united. ozil instantly would. we spend to long waiting for potential to become a reality and football doesnt stand still for us. we'd be the best team in the world if nani, anderson, kagawa, cleverley and more met the potential we've been waiting to see. they havent and theyre starters for us. (i rate nani but still isnt as consistent as we expected and also rate kagawa but the fact is he hasnt really delivered)
It is completely comparable as it would be a new manager wanting his own men with him. There aren't excuses, most rational fans would realise that it was a massive job taking over from SAF, and it's proving to be. The majority of the structure of the club is still there, it's only the first team that's changed and only really Rene, Phelan and Steele then. The fitness coaches, doctor, kitman etc are still there.
Yes they do, but I'm not sure if it's the players or the manager/tactics. I saw no reason why that attack shouldn't blow West Brom away yesterday. The defence was more than capable on paper, also. There's no excuses on the players part, they have let us all down with that performance yesterday.
I was actually thinking of our centre backs when I write that. Both as an example of overplayed veterans and of the planned replacements, Evans, Smalling, Jones either getting left out or used as fullbacks.
Just out of curiosity, a bad result Wednesday and next saturday, what will be the opinion then?
Hasn't really gone according to plan for our new manager has it.
I believe in David Moyes.
Mine? Same as now. It doesn't matter as long as we use the season to build.
I think we need to trust Fergie's judgement on Moyes......
there was always going to be a drop in performance after Fergie went
we really didn't compensate for that in the summer by bringing in a couple of marquee signings
This is a long term job for Moyes and the players and fans have to get behind him
the team he put out yesterday was good enough to beat West Brom - his team selection wasn't great but that United side were more than good enough to win
the challenge is there for the players to not rest on their laurels and show why they are champions - they are the ones who didn't perform yesterday
there was always going to be a drop in performance after Fergie went
we really didn't compensate for that in the summer by bringing in a couple of marquee signings
This is a long term job for Moyes and the players and fans have to get behind him
the team he put out yesterday was good enough to beat West Brom - his team selection wasn't great but that United side were more than good enough to win
the challenge is there for the players to not rest on their laurels and show why they are champions - they are the ones who didn't perform yesterday
I think it's already glaringly obvious that we need about 3 new players, so I'll hold off from the kneejerk reactions for now. Moyes needs a big win though, and very soon.
CBs on the flanks is something we've seen, time and time again, going back to Wes Brown. Even gary neville starter his career in the centre.
Agree Rio and Vidic were overplayed, initially, although the fixture list forced his hand. Definitely not been the case since City. Too many changes in central defence, if anything.
Seems churlish to pick out any of the above as evidence that moyes isn't looking to rebuild.
It will completely be depended on the overall performance. If there will be spinless performances like the last two games in the league and we lode things will get ugly (and rightly so). If we play well but still lose well it's a step in the right direction.
The main difference was that Brown and Neville were legitimately the best options to play at RB during those period. Whereas now we've Rafael who's back from injury and Fabio who's shown that he can perform if he's given the chance and yet we've seen Smalling and Jones get picked ahead of them. From what we've seen so far, it's worrying for Fabio that Moyes seem to think that he's 4th choice at RB and 3rd choice at LB.
I'm sorry I had to bite on this. How can you possibly feel sorry for him?
He is a proven Premier League manager and coach who has been working for years to get an opportunity like this.....it is up to him to make it work....he needs support but not bloody sympathy. He won't won't any. The guy bought his own team in, that was his choice. He identified the targets and he did strengthen, with Fellaini, who hasn't shown his best yet and surely needs to quickly.
He has a great structure and support system to tap into. Picking the right team and motivating the players, a managers bread & butter, appears to be the main problem thus far. It's also the worst thing to have problems with, as feck-ups in the media can be tolerated, poor performances and results cannot.
Phil Neville being interviewed by Paddy on MUTV.
if we finish below tenth...I suspect that he will be relieved of his duties..and Fergie will come back for one season...whilst they think again...
I didn't. People were talking about transition seasons. I said I'd be happy to see a transition season, and the ups and downs that will create.
Historically we've used players to win things, even if they are in the wrong position - Wes Brown in 2007/8 was a perfect example of that.
If we've already concluded we aren't winning the League this year (I haven't, but I might if we aren't looking strong enough at Christmas say) then I'd sooner see us take risks.
Our 2004/5 2005/6 teams gave Ronaldo, Rooney, Fletcher time to grow - turning them from trophyless, into useful seasons. That's a great transition.
The impression I get is he's trying to keep a lot of journos on his side to fend off a lot of negative press and keep the heat off him. He seems to be getting a surprisingly easy ride so far from what I've seen, particularly from the main Manchester journos for the major papers, in turn they seem to be getting a lot of stories from the club on transfers etc.
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