Moyes So Far!

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Amir said:
I'd rather prove we can play good football even against the top teams. This is a big part of what we've been missing all season and something we need to show we can do. Snatching an ugly 1-0 can come later.
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City are a very good team, picking up a win playing ugly can only improve confidence. We are not really flying high at the moment, two victories on the trot is good, but nothing history changing considering it's against West Ham and Olympiakos. We need to get a good run going and playing attractive football against City, in my opinion should not be a priority. We need to go in there and play as good as we can and pick up the victory.
 
fishfingers15 said:
City are a very good team, picking up a win playing ugly can only improve confidence. We are not really flying high at the moment, two victories on the trot is good, but nothing history changing considering it's against West Ham and Olympiakos. We need to get a good run going and playing attractive football against City, in my opinion should not be a priority. We need to go in there and play as good as we can and pick up the victory.
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Plus a statement of "we aren't going anywhere"
 
fishfingers15 said:
City are a very good team, picking up a win playing ugly can only improve confidence. We are not really flying high at the moment, two victories on the trot is good, but nothing history changing considering it's against West Ham and Olympiakos. We need to get a good run going and playing attractive football against City, in my opinion should not be a priority. We need to go in there and play as good as we can and pick up the victory.
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We're not going anywhere this season so just gaining momentum isn't the issue. We need to gel. Obviously we can't tell exactly until we actually see the game, but If we play back to the walls stuff and win 1-0 I won't see it as a sign of progress. Just another 90 minutes with a good result but no long term implications.
 
Amir said:
That's not going to bother the teams battling for the title this season one bit.
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No but it's always good to hurt opponents even in the current season, if this season can stop the title going to the north-west than it's good news, I'd rather see Chelsea lift it.
 
TheNewEra said:
No but it's always good to hurt opponents even in the current season, if this season can stop the title going to the north-west than it's good news, I'd rather see Chelsea lift it.
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So do I. But it's more important for me to see United making progress towards next season. I'll certainly live with an ugly win better than with defeat, but 24 hours before the match we can still dream of a good result with some good football.
 
TheNewEra said:
All you need in a football match is players to be clinical with their chances really.
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Right. So let's just get our players practicing finishing day in day out and chuck the rest. Not sure why we need defensive and goalkeeping coaches either. Physics can stay as a player can get injured shooting. This will be the response to tiki taka we were all hoping for after the wembley final. Let the finishing begin!
 
TheNewEra said:
Plus a statement of "we aren't going anywhere"
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Confidence is the biggest we can gain from beating City IMO. We've seen the confidence of this group co pletlry shattered this season and going on a winning run in the final stretch of the season will restore that to a great degree.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Right. So let's just get our players practicing finishing day in day out and chuck the rest. Not sure why we need defensive and goalkeeping coaches either. Physics can stay as a player can get injured shooting. This will be the response to tiki taka we were all hoping for after the wembley final. Let the finishing begin!
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You take it to the extreme to try and illustrate your point, which is worrying actually, yes I'm clearly saying, yes let's sack the entire staff, dig up the pitch, demolish the stadium! make the fans sit on pitch forks, make the players wear flip-flops!

Football you win by goals scored, versus goals conceded, so being clinical wins you games.
 
Amir said:
We're not going anywhere this season so just gaining momentum isn't the issue. We need to gel. Obviously we can't tell exactly until we actually see the game, but If we play back to the walls stuff and win 1-0 I won't see it as a sign of progress. Just another 90 minutes with a good result but no long term implications.
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What do you mean? We are going to play Bayern on April 2nd, of course momentum is an issue. We are not out of the UCL competition yet, so let's build some momentum. Beating City is very good for us, whether we play ugly or not. Anyone who thinks otherwise and feels that we have to go out and play attacking football, even if it meant losing the game, is a bit odd (at least, that's what I believe). This team needs confidence and a win over City will be a huge boast.
 
TheNewEra said:
You take it to the extreme to try and illustrate your point, which is worrying actually, yes I'm clearly saying, yes let's sack the entire staff, dig up the pitch, demolish the stadium! make the fans sit on pitch forks, make the players wear flip-flops!

Football you win by goals scored, versus goals conceded, so being clinical wins you games.
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But what's the point of even saying that? Can we actually discuss how to make our players clinical? Is that the goal our coaching staff and players should aspire to, for our players to be supremely clinical, when we've been playing such nonsensical football all season? Surely the priority has to, right now, at a very obvious area and one that isn't how clinical we are, and evidenced by our complete lack of goals and creativity.
 
An improvement for me would be building on the West Brom/Palace/Olympiakos/West Ham performances and playing in a similar way, although that's much more difficult in a big game. We've tried Young/Valencia/Welbeck in nearly every big game this season and mostly failed - for me they're picked more for their defensive contribution than their attacking threat in these games, reverting back to that despite losing nearly every other time would be disappointing. Young has started three games versus the top four and we've lost all three - the gameplan hasn't worked for the most apart.

Would love it if Moyes opted for Kagawa/Giggs/Nani(big risk considering his gametime) on either side.
 
You'd have to be a monumentally miserable cnut to not be delighted if we win tomorrow, ugly or not.

In any top four contest (yeah, I know) games can hinge on fine margins and you take wins any way you can get them. It's not as though this was the type of game we'd win with swash-buckling style under Fergie. At least, not regularly.

Winning ugly or losing pretty is fine by me.

Losing ugly, though...
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You'd have to be a monumentally miserable cnut to not be delighted if we win tomorrow, ugly or not.

In any top four contest (yeah, I know) games can hinge on fine margins and you take wins any way you can get them. It's not as though this was the type of game we'd win with swash-buckling style under Fergie. At least, not regularly.

Winning ugly or losing pretty is fine by me.

Losing ugly, though...
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Of course, and we'd all be delighted to win tomorrow. But winning ugly doesn't count for much when we're not playing for trophies, does it?
 
Kaos said:
Not only is it a start, but its a consolation. It softens the blow if we're getting shit results.

Trouble is we're playing shit AND getting shit results.
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Aye, that too. Plenty here are willing to give him the chance even after the insane season we've had if we actually play well and move towards a better style. That says a lot.
 
There have been numerous false dawns, and the optimism after decent performances away at Arsenal, Palace, and WBA, was quickly crushed by the follow-up games away at Olympiakos and at home to Liverpool. All season we've been waiting for United to go on a run of decent results (or at least decent performances), but if anything the team's form has regressed, and it's now 8 defeats in 2014. Obviously it's City next, followed by a very winnable game at home vs Aston Villa, before we meet Bayern, and I'd expect this year's general pattern of fits and starts to continue.

A positive result tomorrow though, could be exactly what is needed to break the pattern, at least in the league.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You'd have to be a monumentally miserable cnut to not be delighted if we win tomorrow, ugly or not.

In any top four contest (yeah, I know) games can hinge on fine margins and you take wins any way you can get them. It's not as though this was the type of game we'd win with swash-buckling style under Fergie. At least, not regularly.

Winning ugly or losing pretty is fine by me.

Losing ugly, though...
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I'm personally not basing all my expectations and hopes of this united on Sir Alex's recent united team and what they did. If anything, new management is a chance to evolve in a lot of ways. But your point is of course true. And obviously I'd be very happy with us beating city any which we we can, given the seasons both teams are currently having. But these days I just find myself getting all giddy whenever we play classy football (or whatever I think is classy anyway). It seems to give me much more satisfaction and a bigger kick than 3 points, oddly enough.
 
Getsme said:
I'll be disappointed is Kagawa doesn't start, but I reckon your right.
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I wouldn't. But I really hope he features a lot alongside mata from here on. It doesn't have to happen every single game. But just Moyes giving it a chance regularly to see it develop would be nice,
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Yeah, obviously. But in the grand scheme of things it won't mean much, will it?
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in the "grand scheme of things", it ll give the players a much needed morale boost after what the went through this season
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I wouldn't. But I really hope he features a lot alongside mata from here on. It doesn't have to happen every single game. But just Moyes giving it a chance regularly to see it develop would be nice,
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The reason I'd like to see him start is his link up play, his ability on the counter attack could be vital tomorrow night, especially if we are under a bit of pressure. It would be a shame to have that sitting on the bench.
 
dev1l said:
in the "grand scheme of things", it ll give the players a much needed morale boost after what the went through this season
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A morale boost for what? Dead rubber remaining league games and a massive uphill task versus the best side in Europe? A win tomorrow will give the fans something long overdue to cheer about, and may well afford Moyes more breathing space, but that's about it as far as this season is concerned.
 
Getsme said:
The reason I'd like to see him start is his link up play, his ability on the counter attack could be vital tomorrow night, especially if we are under a bit of pressure. It would be a shame to have that sitting on the bench.
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I think he's a class player, but we have got a big squad and starting in a majority of games this seaside but not in a few games arguably city or bayern or whoever is not that important. I'd like to see him given a run of game and based in his last performance he deserves to especially alongside Mata, but one game isn't relevant IMO. If he starts 3 of the next 5 I'd be very happy with that.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
A morale boost for what? Dead rubber remaining league games and a massive uphill task versus the best side in Europe? A win tomorrow will give the fans something long overdue to cheer about, and may well afford Moyes more breathing space, but that's about it as far as this season is concerned.
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a morale boost for the players i meant, then we build on that. As long as you don't prefer seeing more lacklustre performances for the rest of the season.
 
dev1l said:
a morale boost for the players i meant, then we build on that. As long as you don't prefer seeing more lacklustre performances for the rest of the season.
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I'd love a win tomorrow, and perhaps a confidence boost for the players is long overdue. But I find it hard to be positive when there is little to no time left for a new found confidence to turn our season around.
 
Problem with starting Kagawa tomorrow is that I don't think he would be that effective against City, thus an average/disappointing performance and relegated to the bench most likely. We have to play to his strengths, shoving him on a wing consisting of Zabaleta and Navas and asking him to stay on the wing is pretty pointless.

He would have to be mainly on the defensive, have limited opportunities to come inside and he's not going to beat Zabaleta on the outside for pace.
 
I think confidence can transfer across seasons. A strong finish to this one could give us a bit of momentum at the start of 2014/15.

Conversely, if we have this latest micro-revival blown away tomorrow night then the mental fragility we've seen this season could linger well past the end of it. Results in the league from here on in don't really matter in the table but definitely might be important in the longer term.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think confidence can transfer across seasons. A strong finish to this one could give us a bit of momentum at the start of 2014/15.

Conversely, if we have this latest micro-revival blown away tomorrow night then the mental fragility we've seen this season could linger well past the end of it. Results in the league from here on in don't really matter in the table but definitely might be important in the longer term.
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I agree that it could have some effect on next season. It may actually even affect our Summer deals, as it can give our targets some hope, and a glimpse of the light waiting for us at the end of the tunnel.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think confidence can transfer across seasons. A strong finish to this one could give us a bit of momentum at the start of 2014/15.

Conversely, if we have this latest micro-revival blown away tomorrow night then the mental fragility we've seen this season could linger well past the end of it. Results in the league from here on in don't really matter in the table but definitely might be important in the longer term.
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It absolutely can. Isn't that what happened at the end of the 05/06 season? I've seen it mentioned a number of times although I might be wrong. And even Moreso,when it's a restoration of confidence rather than a new found confidence or gaining of it.

Confidence won't make us challenge for honors and take us where we want. You need to put lots right for that I reckon. But a lack of confidence can act as a big hindrance to getting there.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think confidence can transfer across seasons. A strong finish to this one could give us a bit of momentum at the start of 2014/15.

Conversely, if we have this latest micro-revival blown away tomorrow night then the mental fragility we've seen this season could linger well past the end of it. Results in the league from here on in don't really matter in the table but definitely might be important in the longer term.
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This.

Liverpool finished last season strongly and it gave them the faith that Rodgers' methods work, faith that's propelled them into the title race this year.

If Moyes can find a formula, stick to it and get some wins under his belt it might get the players believing. That's why I'd like us to stick more or less with what we did at Upton park.

Liverpool went to City and played the way they almost always played and got a well earned 2-2, so why are we afraid of City? Why are we thinking of changing our game to match up to what Nasri and Zabaleta might do? We've done that all seasons in the big games and lost practically every time. Why don't we just play to our strengths like we did last season, when we knew we couldn't defend so we just relied on attacking?

It burns me so much to see Liverpool playing with bravery, despite their cak defence, while we try to 1-0 all the big matches.
 
#07 said:
This.

Liverpool finished last season strongly and it gave them the faith that Rodgers' methods work, faith that's propelled them into the title race this year.

If Moyes can find a formula, stick to it and get some wins under his belt it might get the players believing. That's why I'd like us to stick more or less with what we did at Upton park.
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The difference between the scenarios being, Liverpool had been trying to implement Rodgers methods since day 1 of training, and Moyes is yet to find a formula still at this point, big difference.
I think a couple wins over relegation candidates has given some false hope of some new "Moyes dawn" just remember we've won 1 game against the top 9 so far.
 
BennyBlanco said:
The difference between the scenarios being, Liverpool had been trying to implement Rodgers methods since day 1 of training, and Moyes is yet to find a formula still at this point, big difference.
I think a couple wins over relegation candidates has given some false hope of some new "Moyes dawn" just remember we've won 1 game against the top 9 so far.
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At this point I'm willing to believe in any positive sign. Desperation has deprived me of rationality. My head tells me we are on our way down, my heart tells me its a minor blip and we will go unbeaten until May.
 
BennyBlanco said:
The difference between the scenarios being, Liverpool had been trying to implement Rodgers methods since day 1 of training, and Moyes is yet to find a formula still at this point, big difference.
I think a couple wins over relegation candidates has given some false hope of some new "Moyes dawn" just remember we've won 1 game against the top 9 so far.
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Of course Rodgers has done an incredible job and our players simply getting a few results and confidence isn't going to match that amount of improvement they've made. But that's what I'd like to see from Moyes, fresh ideas that are his own, and he ability to elevate players, like Rodgers is showing. I don't rate him enough to think he can do it. However, gaining confidence is always good for a team. It makes it easier to implement ideas and plans.

Also, Moyes does have a far far better platform than Rodgers did. Although I don't think he has as strong a vision.
 
BennyBlanco said:
The difference between the scenarios being, Liverpool had been trying to implement Rodgers methods since day 1 of training, and Moyes is yet to find a formula still at this point, big difference.
I think a couple wins over relegation candidates has given some false hope of some new "Moyes dawn" just remember we've won 1 game against the top 9 so far.
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This isn't true. Rogers initially came in with a more possession oriented game plan, the like of which he'd played at Swansea. He has moved away from that significantly towards hyper-fast attacking play when it wasn't working for him.
 
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