Wow one player. More than likely they will get Barry so there main problem will be replacing Lukaku. Is that an impossible task?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Wow one player. More than likely they will get Barry so there main problem will be replacing Lukaku. Is that an impossible task?
I've been through all these arguments myself when I thought the jury was still out, we unquestionably had flaws in the side but there's just no excuse for what's gone on this season. On any metric, it's been awful. I genuinely don't know what he does well. When you have a season this bad, you need to see something that gives good reason for carrying on as before, and there hasn't been anything. Certainly nothing that would lead someone to say "let's give Moyes £150m to make the team his own" and see what happens.
I'm not arguing with any of that, just that it appears that he still has the backing of those that matter so just constantly moaning about him and wishing he'll get sacked is a waste of energy.
What we don't see is his long term plans for the team at present. Only those making the decisions are privy to that but it looks from reports that he is making changes behind the scenes that hopefully we'll benefit from even if he's no longer there.
So what are people going to do other than moan and hope for him to be sacked? If you want a manager gone and he's not going to go, that doesn't suddenly change someone's opinion of the man. Fans have their opinions and they have every right to air them, especially when those opinions have some precedence.
The long term plan almost seems like part of the problem, because everything we've seen so far from Moyes indicates that he's not the right man, and therefore shouldn't be making those long term plans. For example, are those long term plans going to involve the same predictable, one-route stuff we've often been playing this season? If he'd shown positive signs so far then I'd be glad to know about the changes he's made, but a lot of fans won't be inspired by the thought that he's changing things; it'll be the complete opposite.
Moyes will have to change those perceptions. Just repeating the same old criticisms ad nauseum isn't particularly productive or interesting.
But our play has improved in the last couple of games. Fellaini has shored up midfield, which has allowed Moyes to drop one or both of Valencia/Young. The wingers have been noticeably narrower now that the manager can play a midfielder with some physical presence. Judging by the reports about Carvalho, that's a trend he wants to continue with.
So what's more productive then? Believing Moyes will turn out to be the right man for the job when everything indicates otherwise? I get what you're saying, but there's little to suggest Moyes is going to change those perceptions.
Neither is backing his uninspired season. I'd rather everyone just admit his abit shit for United and left it at that. Our youth structure is probably the most successful in the league so i don't get what he is actually trying to achieve so special behind the scenes. It is probably just tweaking that any manager would have done.
I have no idea if he will turn out to be the right man or not, but he's here and looks to be here for a while.
Our youth structure is not as successful or strong as others in Europe currently. There are always ways to improve and develop and surely it's a positive that he's looking to improve it, the scouting etc?
That'll depend. If he continues to do poorly then it may reach the point where the Glazers decide to act, whether Fergie wants to or not. Simply because he's going to be given time doesn't mean people can't complain. If he's doing poor, people are going to moan. That's natural and I don't blame them.
We've played well in the past couple of games, but every time we do this we tend to revert back to our old ways against a team who's considerably better than us. We looked as if we had improved for a couple of games before we played Liverpool, but as soon as we came up against them they walked all over us. Of course, if we can go out and beat City then things might actually show signs of changing, but I can't say I'm overly confident of us doing that to be honest.
How the hell can someone show they are incapable of completely rebuilding a team when he hasn't had the chance to do it?
He's not saying he's completely incapable of doing so in that post. He's simply saying that to allow someone who's shown nothing to suggest he's the right man to rebuild our team is a major risk, which is a fair point. People seem to be under the impression that he should automatically be given the chance to rebuild our team. After the season he's had, I'd struggle to trust him with doing so.
Those games we won were West Brom (Fellaini-Carrick midfield, Mata-Januzaj on the wings) and Crystal Palace (Fellaini-Carrick midfield, Mata-Januzaj on the wings). The match we lost was Olympiakos (Cleverley-Carrick midfield, Valencia-Young on the wings). The Liverpool match was terrible in fairness, but then they're a much better gelled unit than us at the moment. The trend is there to see though: a brute in midfield and a pair of elegant players on the wing make us play better. We'll be improved the rest of this season.
He is going to be the manager next season, he has assessed the squad now and this Summer is so important for getting in the right players, the problem is it is going to be very difficult to do that when you cannot offer CL football mainly, the World Cup complicates things too, the only way around it is for the club to throw money at it, transfer fees and wages otherwise we won't stand a chance. He should have got more out of the current crop, and that is a criticism I back up, assessing the squad, trying different formations, injuries, from day one next season all those excuses are out the window. I have called for him to go because what we have seen is atrocious and that is all we have to go on, there is little from him or senior figures at the club to say what the plan is, style of football, tactics, long term plan, if we had more communication it might give people something to buy into, so the only way you can assess things is based on what you see and in terms of waiting to see things change for the better you look at his cv and it's blank so the outlook from most people is poor. He will get the Summer window and he will be under massive scrutiny to start producing but you have to consider as already mentioned that a difficult transfer window is in store and also, given we could sign a lot of new players, they could take time to settle, the top four will strengthen too, it is not going to be easy and I don't see a quick fix.
It's not as simple as that though. Fellaini has improved thankfully, but there's no guarantee that the formula which has won us a couple of matches against relegation threatened sides you mentioned is going to continue working.
Not to mention that the "brute in midfield" thing seems to be working against some of these smaller teams. Our form has been awful against the other top 9 sides. Out of them, we've to play City at home, and Everton, Newcastle and Southampton away from home, sides we've struggled against. That's around half our games right there, so I'm struggling to see where this improvement is going to come from when Moyes will likely be happy with a point in most of them.
There never is. If you want one, you're demanding too much.
this still is a bad way to go about things imo. How often is it that managers come in and inherit a squad of players of their choosing? You have to show you're capable of getting results with the squad you have, even if it's not "your" team. Because if you dont, then imo it increases the risk of failure when you are given the team which is deemed a team in your image. If Moyes can keep getting results with signs of progress from now until the end of the season then things will start looking up. But if we get well-beaten at City and dont perform so well in our remaining fixtures, I wont be looking towards the future in much hope. Even if he is well supported financially and gets good signings in, the pressure will be even higher for him to get it right.
this appeal to authority just doesnt work. fallacious
He's had the chance to manage a title-winning squad and he's failed miserably. If he can't challenge with a squad that won the league then why should we trust him to try and build one of his own?
I'm amazed at the blind faith some of you show him. It's scouse levels of delusion, it really is.
Im amazed at such a simplistic angle of argument with the title winning squad thing. Scouse level of one dimensional thinking.
He's had the chance to manage a title-winning squad and he failed miserably, that's fact.
There's absolutely nothing about him to suggest that he deserves the chance to build a squad here. There's a litany of reasons why he shouldn't be given that chance though.
Has this thread left the front page of RedCafe since the beginning of the season? 
I say that, I've a hell of a lot of posts in here.
I say that, I've a hell of a lot of posts in here.
You've 648, the second highest post count in this thread, after Revan.Has this thread left the front page of RedCafe since the beginning of the season?
I say that, I've a hell of a lot of posts in here.
That's amazing. 3.6% of my posts have come in the Moyes thread.You've 648, the second highest post count in this thread, after Revan.
Go on, we're listening...
I don't really have two hours to spare like.
Still sticking with the incredibly simplistic argument, I guess it means you dont have to justify the reasoning that way, probably why you dont have the 2 hours to spare....
Calling my argument simplistic is a bit rich when the people in favour of Moyes can only muster 'well Fergie picked him...' as a defence.
2 wrongs make a right huh? nice cop out
And everton is?
They're probably good at best, certainly not that far ahead of us that we need to scrap ours and model everything like them.
Besides, what does Moyes has achieved in regards to Youth setup that qualifies him to think he can do better than our current set up? His youth policy in Everton is not out of this world, they have Rooney / Barkley (which IMO is a highly naturally talented players by their own rights, and probably will make the next step even if you put them at Fulham)
I agree with the bolded part. He's done very bad this season, he has made way too many mistakes and showed that he lacks tactical brilliance. We were terrible against the strong teams and clueless against the weaker teams.
We get 2 good results and everything seems to have changed though. We had this before but only to fail again. He will get another season and we'll have to accept that but no one can deny that he was out of depth and failed miserably this season. And not to have CL next season is gonna suck big time
Missing out on the CL is another reason why comparisons with SAFs first few seasons are not appropriate. SAF could feasibly be given more time then because no English clubs played in Europe. It was really stupid to employ someone like Moyes when times have changed and the importance of staying in the CL has changed the nature of the game at the top level.
Some can surely see the benefits in avoiding going back to square one? What I mean is sacking moyes and dealing with the enormous coverage that gets followed by speculation on who will take over followed by the same months of intense scrutiny and background checking of the new candidate not to mention the tedious over analyzing of every word uttered in press conferences and lac of trust regarding line ups, transfers and everything else. not to mention the players needing to get used to yet another new system.
it is of course a gamble to stay with moyes but unless an opportunity too good to miss arises, eg klopp announcing his desire to manage united, then i see no point in changing him for another potentially unsuitable candidate. look at what chelsea did. ranieri, boas, scolari, di matteo. some will point to their success in that time but there was years of uncertainty. id much prefer give moyes the time and only replace him with somebody top drawer if it doesnt work than gamble on some of the names touted; van gaal to de boer to pochettino to martinez. surely nobody wants that?
if moyes gets it right and come october he's starting too look comfortable in the managers seat we will reap the rewards.
it is of course a gamble to stay with moyes but unless an opportunity too good to miss arises, eg klopp announcing his desire to manage united, then i see no point in changing him for another potentially unsuitable candidate. look at what chelsea did. ranieri, boas, scolari, di matteo. some will point to their success in that time but there was years of uncertainty. id much prefer give moyes the time and only replace him with somebody top drawer if it doesnt work than gamble on some of the names touted; van gaal to de boer to pochettino to martinez. surely nobody wants that?
if moyes gets it right and come october he's starting too look comfortable in the managers seat we will reap the rewards.
Thats turned my stomach thinkin about that!
Wait & see how the season pans out is the best / only thing we can do now folks...
I think this is where I am @SER19. If the opportunity presents itself to get a top tier manager in, we should take it. Nobody is arguing the manager has done well, or that he has not pushed the mitigating circumstances justification to the absolute limit. But if it is a case of swapping him for another manager with big question marks hanging over him (see the thread about getting Martinez or Pochettino) we might as well give him more time. While things have been awful they could still turn themselves around. Having come this far we might as well.
If we get a result tomorrow I will be thrilled. SAF didn't get good results against City at home in the last two seasons. I am actually more interested in the game on Saturday. We owe someone a good tonking and I am hopeful it will be Villa.
Unless we somehow finish top 4 or win the CL Moyes should leave at the end of the season. I'm not going to be fooled by beating Westham and Olympiacos in the same week. These are what we used to call routine victories less than a year ago.
- Status