Seriously though Cal that would be a disaster. Honestly. Totally pointless. It would absolutely not lead to us winning the CL, and there is exactly nothing left to play for in the league, so all we would be doing is putting a massive amount of pressure on the next manager. Horrible thought, for me.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Moyes has done this before.. He had the same points and goal difference with Everton last season.. So United and Everton must have similar squads.
I don't think he had them in for training, I heard he had them in to watch the Everton 12/13 DVD.
The Fail feeding into the desperation of some fans.Aye...Yesterday they got to watch the bonus disc. A day in the life of Tony Hibbert
To be fair, I don't think there a 'right' or 'proven' way to hire a manager. I mean, Ferguson's knowledge should give him a far better chance at selecting a good manager than Abramovich. But Roman just went for the hottest young manager in the world in 2004, and in 2013 went for the same guy who is probably the best manager in the world. Sometimes it's that simple.
I think Fergie's judgement would have brought us someone else, much different, much better, a few years ago. But Fergie has aged and some of the bad decisions he had taken with the team in recent years have also shown in his judgement with Moyes. A little behind the times, a little conservative.
Moyes seems to have a let's try our best and see what happens attitude while Sir Alex had a must win and anything else is unacceptable mentality. This is the difference between a loser and a winner.
That is assuming Sir Alex is taking over for 2 years or more, not 2 months.
Bend it like Bilyaletdinov.
I can see why you would be happy about it. I still wouldnt like it. I wasnt thrilled when Scholes came out of retirement either. We need to think long term now, no point in short term fixes.
Thinking long term is part of the thinking that got us in this current mess. Sir Alex for 2 years is the best option out of all the realistic ones at the moment.
Perhaps Mourinho will have another fallout with Abramovich during that time?
I think its different to that. I think that sometimes people who are truly gifted find it hard to understand their gifts. Its why many good managers were only modest footballers - they had to understand the game so much more, and know what players needed to do to improve. While other players, such as Mat le Tissier, probably have no idea how they did what they did. (What a player he was btw).
Fergie won 5 of the last 7 titles. And we were inches away from the other two - goal difference and an offside goal. That's unreal and makes it hard to criticize him. My guess is that he thought that he was just a hard working Scot, and that the squad was winning so much they were obviously good enough. He probably thought another hard working Scot would do. He probably wasn't totally aware that he had some sort of unnatural aura that made players play out of their skins.
That's really simplistic... Who knows, though. You're looking at the list of traits Fergie listed in his book regarding Moyes, and it kind of fits... Very little about football, all about character.
Regarding the board gathering - It's common practice to meet and greet before a European game. For example, here's PSG and Olympiacos together before a game, back in November.
http://www.psg.fr/en/News/003001/Article/64454/Official-lunch-on-Wednesday
http://www.psg.fr/en/News/003001/Article/64454/Official-lunch-on-Wednesday
Anything's possible I guess but I think the Mourinho ship has sailed.
Blaming "thinking long term" for this mess is like blaming food poisoning on having been hungry. I agree that we shouldnt select a manager solely on the basis that he has demonstrated that level of super-long term loyalty, so having a manager for 2 or 3 years is acceptable (though not ideal). But bringing SAF back will really set us back IMO. I think we just need to move on.
He won't be sacked until the end of the season at the very least. What is the point? Nothing left to play for if we crash out tonight. It's very likely he will be our manager the beginning of next season as well. I don't think the board gives a feck about the fans, where did the GnG campaign lead? Plus, Ferguson will say his piece. If things continue the way they have been going, well into next season, then we're talking.
Yep, I'm convinced of it. Doesn't mean I like it, mind.
Yep, I'm convinced of it. Doesn't mean I like it, mind.
So we can identify a new manager early and he can start thinking about what he wants out of the summer. That would be the only logical reason.
If we can get Klopp that's great, but if we go with Van Gaal, he's not likely to hang around for more than 2-3 years, surely Sir Alex will do a better job over the same period.
Why not? The season is over and it's not like having Giggs in charge for a few games is going to set us back, also it'll give us time to go our and openly chase any manager we want before the WC summer.
Maybe someone doing a good buffer period of 2-3 years is what we need. Whoever replaces him won't be replacing Sir Alex, which would make things easier.
We just can't go hiring people and expect huge stints anymore. Great if it happens, but you just can't expect it now.
Fergie's retired, let him go.
There were multiple points during the season when the trigger could have been pulled. Carling Cup loss to Sunderland, crashing out of the FA Cup, Fulham, Newcastle, the away loss to Olympiakos... why now?
My question is, what will pressure the Glazers to sack Moyes before his alloted evaluation time is up? It won't be the fans. It won't be Ferguson. What will it be?
This is all assuming we lose to Olympiakos. Oh ye of little faith.
Would be nice to show some pride tonight. I do fear being embarrassed in the next round though unless some dramatic improvement emerges from nowhere.
Poor, poor season for United and I blame the players first and foremost. Many have taken their eyes off the prize I think.
Poor, poor season for United and I blame the players first and foremost. Many have taken their eyes off the prize I think.
If we hired Mourinho like we should have last summer, none of it will be a problem. Hopefully the club will have learnt the lesson (if Sir Alex comes back for 2 years) and go for the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola or Ancelotti.
Wasn't it Van Gaal that laid down the groundworks for Bayern that Heynckes and Guardiola refined and perfected? If so, I wouldn't mind him too much as long as Moyes is out the door. Ideally though, I'd want a manager that is ready now and can hit the ground running. Never mind the future, sort out the shambles that is the present.
@Cal? what if Abramovich decides to keep Mourinho?
Money.
Maybe he would but it would set us up for another difficult transition when he retired again IMO, whereas Van Gaal, for example, even if we didnt do anything much for the time he was here, we would have SAF out of our system making it easier for the next incoming manager.
This isnt the kind of thing you can really rationalise though, I dont think either of us are going to change our point of view about it, I just personally think SAF coming back would do more harm than good in the long run, I am a big lover of history and perhaps I look too much for precedents in the past but the whole thing is way too similar to the end of Busby's time for my liking.
Oh right, you mean in reality? No, youre right, in reality he isnt going anywhere. In fantasyland it would still be worth doing though.
We have a regular 8 a side on Tuesday, and I got a (bigger than usual) grilling in the pub afterwards, predictably lead by a Scouse fan....
They wanted to know why I still supported Moyes. I simply said "because he's our manager". I've only really known two, before - Big Ron & Fergy, being two young to have gone to watch Sexton or the Doc, so I dont know what its like to NOT support the manager
That pretty much shut em all up !
They wanted to know why I still supported Moyes. I simply said "because he's our manager". I've only really known two, before - Big Ron & Fergy, being two young to have gone to watch Sexton or the Doc, so I dont know what its like to NOT support the manager
That pretty much shut em all up !
Then we hope that Guardiola is bored after getting 102pts in a season with Bayern or Real Madrid sack Ancelotti for only winning the league or something.
Moyes waking up to the 'ghost of christmas' past' and taking him on a magical journey showing his plans amount to nothing.
Yes and no. He brought in several of the players that Heynckes used, and got them playing a very dogmatic attacking style of football, winning the league and cup in 09-10 in attractive style. However they werent viewed as a great Bayern team, and were done over in the CL final buy Inter.
On the other hand Heynckes really changed the philosophy, ditching the dogma for some pragmatism and high pressing, which changed them from a cheapo version of Barca to the version we saw last year - a team able to hurt you in 10 different ways. That probably wouldn't have happened had he stayed. Plus he was sacked for looking like he was going to miss out on the CL qualification of course, fell out with the President, the press, the players etc.
I would say that he's a better class of problem than David Moyes right now. But not my first choice.
From the Champions League? He would have been sacked as soon as 4th place became impossible. Plus Woody has reportedly been excellent in snapping up commercial deals. Match day revenue from the Premier League and domestic cups will remain steady. As far as I know the United stocks aren't like other company stocks, owning stock doesn't earn you a voice at the table. They're just an investment tool, and I don't see the Glazers putting too much emphasis on the stock. Oh oh... I'm sure Moyes has severance pay written in his contract, I see them as the owners willing to wait until a period comes when they can cut him loose without paying him. Their NFL team is currently shit, and they don't seem to be aggressively working to restore the Buccanneers to Superbowl glory.
This is my pessimistic side coming out, but I just don't see them sacking Moyes so soon, even with the potential loss to Olympiakos. I'd love for someone to convince me otherwise.
This theory of him needing his "own" players and "own" team is extremely dodgy to say the least. At the very essence of managing a football team, is the ability of a manager to be able to get the best out of his team. The only situation where I can see that theory working is if the expectation is to exceed past performances or reach new levels.
I read Sid Lowe's book on Barcelona and Real Madrid and it gives a fair bit of credit to van Gaal for the development of the modern Barcelona, even though the first team underachieved (relatively speaking) during his time there. Having said that, it was 15 years ago now and, even though he would no doubt be better than Moyes, I would rather go for someone in their forties than their sixties. Also, I think we need someone to reunify the dressing room rather than a figure who seems to be able to start a fight in an empty room. Klopp would be ideal - surely every man has his price?
Pleasing to see more of this in the media lately.
It could be argued that some managers are good at coming into clubs and getting suCcess for a couple of years and even fewer are capable of building up a club into a position where it consistantly challenges for honors.
People are judging moyes like he was brought in for instant success. He wasn't. It's not that the glazers didn't want to succeed but he was a long term vision option whether people want to accept it or not.
I wouldn't expect pep to be able to mould this squad of players into a successful team too quickly. The kind of football his teams play is alien to the kind of football this team played under SAF. United were efficient and ruthless, but not regularly easy on the eye.
People are judging moyes like he was brought in for instant success. He wasn't. It's not that the glazers didn't want to succeed but he was a long term vision option whether people want to accept it or not.
I wouldn't expect pep to be able to mould this squad of players into a successful team too quickly. The kind of football his teams play is alien to the kind of football this team played under SAF. United were efficient and ruthless, but not regularly easy on the eye.
I don't think Moyes needs 200m, I don't agree with this. A normal transfer budget of £50m per season plus 100% of players sold will do providing he can sign a top tactician like Querioz as his assistant in my personal opinion and of course adapt to the work load by delegating more. However it is pointless keeping him on, at this point we don't know whether the regression as the season has continued is down to the left over Ferguson effect lessening with each game or whether players aren't respecting him.
I don't personally like his methods because my philosophy of quality over quantity means I think he is doing too much. Don't get me wrong, to some the view 'less is more' could be seen as lazy but I do think Moyes should put in the same hours as any other manager, if not more, but in those hours focus his attention on only the most important things and delegate everything else to those more capable, who in turn focus all their attention on a limited number of things. Ferguson was a strong believer in being the observer of training as opposed to taking it therefore I cannot understand why he chose the jack of all trades and master of none to replace him.
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