That's the spirit.Even though your tongue is firmly in your cheek.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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That's the spirit.Even though your tongue is firmly in your cheek.
Wait tell he gets the players he wants. Some people just can't see the vision. Rooney, Mata, Januzaj and Fellaini are the only players that will last new Moyes, the rest simply aren't good enough for this level.
Yes, but remember in American Sports there is no threat of relegation. Most teams know they aren't going to win, so they just muddle along. We have to be competitive.But they gave both Raheem Morris and Schiano two seasons before pulling the plug.
I don't think going out in the next round would do it. If we got a big side, then even a SAF team might go out, it would just be used as another excuse. It's the league, the bread and butter games that are going to do for him. I am not even confident that we will beat West Ham. I am glad we played West Brom when we did, now they have that win under their belt they might have been a far harder proposition. City will annihilate us.
Rightly so, at club like United you need to deserve your time. You don't do that by underachieving massively in your first season costing your club over 100 million.
He looks ill. For goodness sake put the poor man out of his misery. The board should not have allowed SAF to decide who he wanted as manager without going through interviews. If they had done their job properly he wouldn't have got the job. There would have been a queue a mile long for this job. SAF has left yet he is still wielding the power.
Oh my... that's him from the last time he managed Everton
Yep. It boggles my mind how a manager with no winning pedigree, no top level experience and seemingly absolutely no vision whatsoever could get a job like this. Even more so how he can be given time against all reason, there's not even the slightest chance he'd be allowed to continue at any other club if he underachieved as much as he has here.
It's like Moyes is Fergie's project. He wants Moyes to succeed more than he wants United to carry on winning - even if it takes 4-5 years to get Moyes to finish in top 4, he'll give him that time because he's a fellow Scot and Fergie would like him to at least taste top level football.
I feel symphaty for him. I really do, from the bottom of my heart. I critized him alot in here, but for the David Moyes as a person and human being and from one employee to another, he have my deepest symphaty. Been in his boots where things doesn't work out, luckily I have the options of just quiting (without having any considerable financial strain / contract / nationwide exposure) something he doesn't have.
I hope he's strong enough to take it easy on himself, at the end of the day, it's just a bad choice of career, something we all have been through.
I am afraid SAF's ego has got in the way here. The future of our club can not be used as some sort, as you say project.
They know they dont want to let happen what happened after Busby left, and oh look...its happened...Fergie has been given too much power. He isnt the manager anymore
The media's really laying into him now. Just saw this article on MEN titled "At a loss: The excuses David Moyes gave for each United defeat"
I think he wanted others instead of Fellaini, for instance apparently we bid for Khedira, if Fellaini was his number one target then he would have gotten him much earlier. He probably wanted to use Mata as he did Pienaar but when the entire team are under-performing then even players like Mata will look poor. I was just saying he isn't trying to turn us into Everton with the players he is trying to buy, he probably planned on turning us into a much better version of Everton (E.g. Using Mata as Pienaar, Januzaj as Mirallas etc) with some tweaks of course.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being a much better Version of Everton, such a team would be defensively solid and counter attack with full backs ferociously flying down the wing play almost as wing backs, two central midfielders sitting to cover for them and the wide men drifting inside with the view of taking the full backs narrow creating space out wide. Crosses are not a problem either when you have the likes of Baines with a 38% cross accuracy.
He just hasn't executed his plan and unfortunately doesn't seem to be a great tactician nor a great motivator and therefore he should be replaced but he is still a good manager. That said, because his away form is better than Mourinho, Pellegrini and Rodgers, if it is still come the end of the season then I would be content if he isn't sacked (I would rather he is though) providing he employs as his assistant a great tactician so he can focus on actually being a masterful manager as opposed to the jack of all trades. I'm convinced he can get top four next season if he realises how to break down the teams that park the bus and can set up the team to win some of the big games, for this he'll need an expert though. To me, if a top top manager is available, it just makes sense to go for that as opposed to stick with a manager that probably will come good but also might not.
The way I see it, he only know one style of football : Drop deep, cross from deep
He just had years and years of perfecting it so much that Everton looks solid enough, and he has years to mould every players to play to his tactics. I bet my dollars that he come to United thinking the same tactics with a better personnel = better result. Who can blame him if he's confident on the tactics that has served him well for a decade (Well is subjective)
He just didn't know why it doesn't work, and to be fair I don't know why it doesnt' work. It won't be tiki taka, but surely what works for Everton will at least works a bit better with United?
Our teams aren't perfectly build for his style of play, but then again we should not be that bad ... right??
The only thing that irks me the most is that we're hiring a manager with no other tactical ability other than his trusted tactics, he hasn't try new things... probably because he doesn't know how to. Not every manager can devise a tactical plan. It's one thing to make you hard to beat ala stoke and pump up cross on percentage, it is another to really create a fine tuned tactics
That's imo the difference between good manager and great manager, a good team and a good individuals.
That alone is enough of a reason to sack him. Top 4 shouldn't be the aim, if anyone told you in any of the previous seasons we'd be struggling to put up a fight for top 4 you'd be shocked.
For him : managing United is his boyhood dream (My guess)
He just arrived at the promised land. But he doesn't know what's beyond the promised land.
For characters like Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, SAF, managing a big team is just the starting line, they're hungry for success beyond getting a dream job. I suspect for Moyes, it feels as if he did it.
He just arrived at the promised land. But he doesn't know what's beyond the promised land.
For characters like Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, SAF, managing a big team is just the starting line, they're hungry for success beyond getting a dream job. I suspect for Moyes, it feels as if he did it.
Didn't take long to lower the standards, did it? Less than a year in, and we're already a team hoping to break into the four.
We are having to accept a new reality. Under Moyes 7th to 4th place will be the height of our ambition.
Yup doesn't matter who we put out we'll be absolute gash. The team seem in a state of perpetual slumber and I can't see an end in sight.
I can see Old Trafford buzzing on the last day of 2014-15 when we make 6th and qualify for Europa League, Moyes running around the stadium cheering with his arms up and absolutely delighted at the thought of playing in Europe next season.
Note the keyword regularity. Ferguson's record of doing this is unmatched anywhere.
Don't tell me I am doing Matt Busby a huge disservice just because I think that Fergie was the best we had at cultivating a never-say-die mentality, what utter nonsense. Busby's legacy is absolutely untouchable.
There's a difference between saying that "it will never be as good again" and "it's gone". Sir Alex was not the sole reason for that mentality yet you made it seem like he was. It all dies with his retirement. It's not something that was ingrained in the club. Nonsense. It was there before and it will be there in the future because it is part of United's identity.
I actually made a point of noting the consistency of come-backs but you're unable to acknowledge this.
You are just coming out with dewy-eyed sentimental bollocks, frankly. How can such a quality as impeccable man-management be "ingrained into a club", irrespective of the manager? It literally doesn't make sense and it is evidently false by the example of the current season.
An example supporting your point is Ancelotti who wasted top players due to tactical inflexibility but eventually learned from his mistakes to become a much better manager. Moyes probably is on course to make the same mistakes however considering we can attract much better managers, I do not see the logic in letting him make those mistakes here.
The following is taken from an article, I can't remember where from but I posted this in a thread a few weeks ago:
The footballing philosophy of Real Madrid manager Carlo Ancelotti drastically changed after working with Zinedine Zidane, now Ancelotti's assistant manager, during their time at Juventus.
Nine months on from winning the 1998 FIFA World Cup, Zidane, a Ballon d'Or recipient, had an uncertain future under Ancelotti, from Corriere dello Sport via Jon Brodkin and Michael Walker at The Guardian:
The 1999 version of Ancelotti was stubborn to a fault, dogged in defence and had a philosophy that leaned more towards catenaccio than total football.
During Ancelotti's time at Parma, he was notorious for his refusal to adjust his tactics according to the creative flair of the players he had at his disposal.
Forget about Adaílton, Jesper Blomqvist and Tomas Brolin; Gianfranco Zola was the biggest casualty.
reflected Ancelotti via The Guardian.
When Roberto Baggio, then with AC Milan, approached Parma regarding a potential move, Ancelotti sunk the deal because he didn't want to build the team around il Divin Codino.
Baggio would have been divine for Parma, but he signed with Bolognaand scored 22 times in 30 Serie A games, six more goals that season than Enrico Chiesa and Hernán Crespo combined.
Ancelotti said to BeIN Sport via Ian Holyman at ESPN FC.
With Fabio Cannavaro, Gianluigi Buffon, Lilian Thuram, Néstor Sensini and Roberto Mussi, Ancelotti had no intentions of Parma emulating Zdeněk Zeman's Foggia side of the early '90s, a team that played football with bravado and no fear.
Parma finished two points behind Juve for the 1996-97 Scudetto, however 13 teams scored more goals than Ancelotti's side.
When he replaced Marcello Lippi at the Bianconeri, an already disgruntled Thierry Henry, wasted in Lippi's 3-5-2, was Ancelotti's next high-profile victim.
Ancelotti told Philippe Auclair via Thierry Henry Lonely at the Top: A Biography.
Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger, who worked with Henry at Monaco, bought the Frenchman and changed him into a centre-forward—Henry went on to score 228 times for the Gunners.
The key difference between the situations of Henry and Zola compared to Zidane was that Ancelotti didn't want Zizou to leave.
Ancelotti said via Rob Shepherd at The National.
Instead of being known as the manager who was too headstrong to experiment with Baggio, Henry and Zola, Ancelotti was now more open to change because he was forced to abandon his inflexible, rigid and limited formation for Zidane.
At AC Milan, Andrea Pirlo, then a No. 10, was the first to profit from Ancelotti's new-found tactical adaptability, from Preferisco La Coppa via The Daily Mail:
Kaká, an €8.5 million signing from São Paulo, wasn't going to become Henry 2.0 for Ancelotti.
Early on in Kaká's career, Ancelotti surrounded the Brazilian with three playmakers in Pirlo, Clarence Seedorf and Rui Costa, coupled with a world-class No. 9 in Andriy Shevchenko.
There was no way a player of Kaká's talent was going to fail with that much assistance.
During Kaká's pomp, he was often a deep-lying forward playing off Filippo Inzaghi, and the freedom to roam enabled the Brazilian to win the 2007 FIFA World Player of the Year.
Kaká's dominance vs.Manchester United was voted as the fourth greatest UEFA Champions League moment.
He became Ancelotti's penance for not projecting Henry's upside.
Having won two Champions League titles for AC Milan, Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich arranged a secret meeting with Ancelotti.
Abramovich told Ancelotti from Preferisco La Coppa via The Independent.
Under Ancelotti, the Blues became the first Premier League team to score 100 goals or more in a season.
His inability to win the Champions League led to him saying arrivederci to Stamford Bridge and bonjour to Paris Saint-Germain.
Whether it was a 4-1-2-1-2, 4-3-3, a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-2-2-2, Ancelotti's propensity to experiment is linked back to him having to adapt to Zidane at Juventus.
Ancelotti had to figure out a way to include Ezequiel Lavezzi, Javier Pastore, Jérémy Menez, Lucas Moura and Zlatan Ibrahimović in the PSG starting XI.
Ancelotti is coming to Real Madrid with league titles in Italy, England and France.
Thank you. Very interesting read. Very insightful
I've made it clear he should be sacked however there is the very realistic possibility he won't. I hope he is gone tomorrow because he has under-performed and there are no excuses for what has happened this season.
That said, considering the aim of the Glazers very well might be consistent top four, I do think he can get that with no real difficulty if he delegates tactics to an assistant on the level of Queiroz. We have a strong squad and it's only going to get better, with the players he has and he can go out and buy, then with a top tactician he will get top four.
I agree though he should be sacked because he doesn't have the elite skills for Man United and in our current position we don't need somebody who must learn on the job.
I would be content with another season of Moyes if we must providing he maintains this away form until the end of the season, if that goes then all hope goes with it.
Having consistent top 4 at little cost could be tempting to Glazers in term of financial stability. As things stand Moyes would probably need 200M to even have us competing for top 4 and that's not even a certrainty - to have a manager who will NEVER deliver a major trophy and will need at least a hundred million to even get us into a competition we've casually been in for the past 20 years must be terrible even to them.
I doubt that. The appeal of Manchester United for commercial partners is its association with success and winning trophies, and its that winning culture instilled by SAF which has made it one of the most reputable brands in world sport from a business point of view. 'Consistent top four' competitors is a massive downgrade from the club's mantra and perceived global value.
The belief among many United fans is that the Glazers would be content with just finishing top 4. If this was true, why did they sanction a 24m deal for an injury prone 29 yo striker when we finished 2nd on goal difference the season before? The answer is because top 4 is not good enough. Sponsors want trophies, not just making it into the CL every year. Nike dropped Arsenal precisely because they were not winning anything. The same will happen to United if we don't keep winning trophies and the Glazers know this. They will spend the money needed to ensure United keep winning. They spent 24m on RVP to help reclaim the title, something they would not have done if top 4 was enough for them.
You may then point out that the Glazers have not forked out the money in recent seasons. Why? Because there was no need to. We had Ferguson, the only manager that could keep winning trophies with the players he had. There was no need to fork out money on superstars when the existing manager could win with the likes of Young and Valencia. But that's changed now. Ferguson is gone and any manager replacing him will need financial backing to win. And I'm sure the Glazers know this, as evidenced by the purchases of Mata and Fellaini (27m is big money), as well as giving Rooney a new contract.
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@Empire this is the same guy who chose not to heed fergie's warning about letting his trusted hands go. what makes you think he'll happily take on the assistance of Queiroz who may very well object to what Moyes plans to do?
That's too simplistic. Our problem is far bigger than tactics, it's about basic football style. If Moyes needs an assistant to teach the team (and let's face it, HIM as well) how to play the right way, we might as well make the assistant the new manager.
I don't even know if there was ever a manager who brought in an assistant and told him to mould the team the way he wants, even though it goes against everything the manager knows and maybe even believes. And I don't see why we should do that just so Moyes has a job.
Completely agree. Why should we give to Moyes an assistant who will do Moyes job. Better to sakc Moyes and appoint that guy as manager. Or make Moyes' his assistant.
Yeah agreed. Its fine to bring in an assistant to work on the fine details - such drilling the back four on the off-side trap or setting up training practices to encourage short sharp passing between the attackers, for example. If the problem is a specific detail of our game, then by all means get someone in to help out.
But it has to fit within the general framework that the manager sets, and the coach is only implementing the manager's orders.
Genius. Not only should we sack him, lets actually demote him as a punishment.....but I'd prefer him to be made bog cleaner or something rather than anything which might involve him potentially having an influence on the football side of things
Actually, screw it. If we appoint Moyes as assistant to the guy who was supposed to be Moyes' assistant, then there is still the possibility of the new manager getting suspended for a match or two. Which means that Moyes will manage the team in his absense. Not sure, I'll like to watch it.
Genius. Not only should we sack him, lets actually demote him as a punishment.....but I'd prefer him to be made bog cleaner or something rather than anything which might involve him potentially having an influence on the football side of things
Agree wholeheartedly . .
I desperately want DM to succeed and while I find it awful seeing the club dragged down so far, a part of me thinks that there must be something that DM can do to rebuild the club. I just
What I don't know is how long is enough !!!!
How long will it last until the 'unprofessional cnut' coments will start.
Well you can't really be too tactical when you're not giving the players any idea if they're playing until game day. If nobody on the training ground knows if they're playing at the weekend, how the feck can he do any tactical drills? Let alone get players to physically prepare better. Some members of the squad will have very specific ways of training to keep them at 100%.
I'm getting annoyed again with all this.
I'm getting annoyed again with all this.
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