Moyes So Far!

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If and when the time comes to choose a replacement I would hope there is a committee to discuss potential candidates made up of prominent football figures at the club.

I would want Giggs, Neville and Scholes' opinions for starters and input from players like Van der Sar who have played abroad and worked with other coaches would no doubt be helpful.

I have a feeling Queiroz would be high on the list but, again, is unproven as a manager at this level.
 
The committee should basically be this then: Giggs,Scholes,Neville,Joel Glazer, Woodward, Dave Gill(if possible), and Fergie.
 
KeninDC said:
So-if so many Caf members, at the time of Moyes's appointment thought he was the wrong guy-the only thing that surprises me is that his support lasted through the Olympiacos game. It's not like Moyes really did much to inspire confidence at any point in the season up to that point.
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Fergie at the last home game saw to that - "stand by your new manager". Then there was a summer's worth of media massaging, reading about how dedicated he is, student of the game etc. It's just reached a critical mass now, like reality's switched back on.
LonelyFire said:
Would suggest you buy the latest issue and read it in context - i can tell you the link you have posted is not what is said in the issue.
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The tweet it links says pretty much the same thing though in fairness, so did that misrepresent the article as well?
 
Moyes wasn't only Fergie's choice. It was discussed with the board - he obviously put the name forward but, the board agreed. He then just delivered the news.

Am sure Fergie just didn't base it on nationality and had already put a lot of thought into it. These kinds of appointments happen all the time in the world, a successful leader picking their successor - usually they've earned the respect and right to do so, much like Fergie had. It doesn't always work out but, these people have done more than enough to be able to identify the next person. It's not like a formal process guarantees anything, I mean look at the manager merry go around everywhere.
 
this is feckin absurd



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It's like players. I thought Veron was a good signing at the time, but it did not work out. Same with Moyes. The thing is to give them a fair chance and then recognize when it is not working and move on.
 
Amir said:
Regarding the Woodward discussion,

There's no perfect way to choose a manager or a perfect CEO to choose one. It's hit and miss. But just like being a great footballer doesn't mean you'll be a great manager, being a great manager doesn't mean you'll be a great director or be able to choose a new manager well. It's a new world and funnily enough, Fergie might actually have been TOO involved in the game, with personal favourites, etc.. A cold, hard calculation by people who were not football managers may well have led to a better result.
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Fergie never relied on statistics, or data in anything, such as ball retention, pass completion, yards travelled per game, so he didn't with a manager either, he went with his gut basically.

Personal favourite yes, he would have justified his decision with the board and said oh yes he offers long term stability, Ferguson also doesn't like to be wrong, he had a rift with the BBC for so many years over something so childish, until the BBC gave him a written letter of apology, so he wouldn't do interviews with the BBC for match of the day and sent his assistant manager.

Sir Alex was a great manager, the best in a very long time, but he was also one of the most childish managers (like it or not) but he was a winner too, he held grudges, made everything personal, walked out of press conferences at times when they said someone was favourites, but Moyes would say "they might very well be favourites [coming to old trafford".

I think Moyes appointment was a huge mistake, tactically he's bad, no plan b, players way out of position, you could win a game with RVP and Rooney up top, with Mata in the hole, you could even play Young and Valencia on the wings... to track back let them 3 worry about attacking and it would work, but he shifts players out of position... because he's set on playing one system week in week out when it doesn't work.
 
surf said:
It's like players. I thought Veron was a good signing at the time, but it did not work out. Same with Moyes. The thing is to give them a fair chance and then recognize when it is not working and move on.
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Veron had been one of the star players in what was the best league in Europe at the time. It didn't work out for him in England but I doubt anyone doubts the man's quality. Moyes was a mid-table manager that the club took a wild and unnecessary punt on. And in any case, gambling on one player is a totally different category of risk than gambling on the manager.
 
ISSYNAZAR said:
Oh dear. Other than being slightly less ginger, he's just the same wherever he is.
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Yes, percentage football has a ceiling. God only knows why the club thought he would adapt to a more aggressive style at the age of 50....Arrogance and complacency I suppose.
 
for anyone in keep moyes on camp, can you explain why you feel we should stick with moyes? i cant think of any good reason why right now
 
Ubik said:
Fergie at the last home game saw to that - "stand by your new manager". Then there was a summer's worth of media massaging, reading about how dedicated he is, student of the game etc. It's just reached a critical mass now, like reality's switched back on.

The tweet it links says pretty much the same thing though in fairness, so did that misrepresent the article as well?
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I would say its not necessarily a fair representation.
 
The White Pele said:
If and when the time comes to choose a replacement I would hope there is a committee to discuss potential candidates made up of prominent football figures at the club.

I would want Giggs, Neville and Scholes' opinions for starters and input from players like Van der Sar who have played abroad and worked with other coaches would no doubt be helpful.

I have a feeling Queiroz would be high on the list but, again, is unproven as a manager at this level.
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What?

What would those three know about Klopp or Simeone? Next time rather than choosing someone. Let's actually interview people for the job.
 
To be honest I'd love for us to consult the guy who went about selecting Dalglish's successor at Liverpool. They made contact with some pretty impressive young managers including De Boer and Klopp before settling for Rodgers.
 
He spoke about his vision for the club today, and the direction he wants to take. I, like many others, would love to know what this is. This is a man who's apparent footballing philosophy is to stick with what he knows, regardless of performance and result.
 
What is David Moyes's blueprint – his vision for Manchester United?
United's manager is floundering, Juan Mata is being dragged down and signs that things are coming together are sparse


There was a moment among the wreckage of Manchester United's 3-0 trouncing by Liverpool when David Moyes was forced to confront reality.
He was asked if being the manager of the 20-times champions was more difficult than he had thought. "The job was always going to be hard," he said. When pushed if the post was not just hard, but harder than he had hoped, the man who has overseen a 43-point swing to United's fiercest enemy, had to reply in the affirmative. "Harder? Yes I would say so, yes."

With each demoralising defeat the ire and concerns of United fans focus more on Moyes and whether he is the man for the job. The manner of the defeats the 50-year-old is overseeing is the chief charge against him. All teams lose but to go down constantly by playing like a team of strangers seven months into his inaugural season offers scant hope of optimism.

Supporters want to look at the Moyes project and see a glimmer that things are coming together. Instead, the evidence of the dire 2-0 defeat to Olympiakos three weeks ago in the Champions League and Sunday's equally abysmal reverse to Brendan Rodgers's dazzling Liverpool suggests that United are going backwards under Moyes.

Tactically, Rodgers had no compunction playing the 19-year-old Raheem Sterling in the No10 slot while Moyes again shunted Juan Mata, his £37.1m club record buy, out wide on the right. Adnan Januzaj, another No10 in-waiting was on the opposite flank, while the £27m Marouane Fellaini continues to look a player sucked under by the challenge of playing in the famous red shirt.

Mata has played seven games under Moyes but whereas the eye can see the Spaniard operating with success in a wide position for Barcelona or Bayern Munich – where the central players are creative – in this United side he has become an auxiliary wingman, who is yet to score, and is being dragged down to the level of the average player.

It begs the questions: what is Moyes's plan, his blueprint, vision? And, can he arrange Mata, Januzaj, Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie into a slick, interchangeable front four who can terrorise teams?

The answer is that no one knows. From the moment Moyes replaced Sir Alex Ferguson he has constantly talked of "transition". The word has been applied to the club, the squad, the expectations of fans. Yet Moyes is also in transition.

He is the time-served manager who arrived at Old Trafford having spent 11 years in charge of Everton, a club of more modest achievements than the institution of George Best, Sir Bobby Charlton, Cristiano Ronaldo, three European Cups and a self-professed 659m fans around the globe.

One of football's great truisms is about it being a results business. Winning convinces everyone – from owner to star player to supporter. A glance at Moyes's record shows failures in the League Cup and FA Cup, that reverse to Olympiakos, supposedly the round's "easiest" opposition and a dismal seventh position in the league.

The bad news continues. If United drop one more point in the closing nine games they will return a poorest points tally of the Premier League era, dropping below the 75 of the 1996-97 and the 2003-04 campaigns.

Moyes carries the can for this. To retain the title might have been a stretch but to be 12 points from a Champions League place is perhaps the most damning of the facts that show how far he is falling short.

In a season of disappointments two moments illustrate the gradient of the learning curve Moyes is on. In a mid-December briefing, the manager revealed he had to tell Danny Welbeck to be "last off the training field", pointing to Wayne Rooney as an example. Moyes also admitted to being a "little bit" surprised at having to urge Welbeck, who is an England striker, to do so.

Moyes said: "I've got to say we had a word with him about a month ago and we said that he needs to be the last off the training field. Wayne's out there practising his finishing each day, whether it's taking free-kicks, shooting from tight angles or bending them in, whatever it may be Wayne's practising. I said: 'Danny, you need to be out there every day finishing, even if it's 15 minutes at the end.'"

While Moyes went on to say that Welbeck had heeded the advice, it still seemed a strange approach from a manager to go public if he wanted to keep the player onside.

This was confirmed when three days later, Welbeck questioned the veracity of Moyes's comments. "I have been doing that ever since I have been at United. I have been injured this season so maybe the manager has not seen me on the training pitch as much," he said. "At Manchester United I want to be working hard and I have been doing that ever since I was a kid. I just want to keep on getting better and improving. Those extra hours on the training pitch, whether it be with the boys or individually, I am just looking to improve."

Beyond whatever was the truth of the exchange an overriding sense was that Moyes had missed an opportunity. If, say, Ferguson had informed Welbeck of the need to train more you could imagine him spinning the tale on its head. He would have informed journalists that, actually, extra training had all been Welbeck's idea. In a classic bit of man-management, Welbeck would have been placed in the best light while Ferguson would earn his undying loyalty for doing so.

The second moment came last Friday when Moyes admitted not knowing that Van Persie had done an interview with the United Review in which the striker offered assurances of contentment and that he hoped to stay beyond his contract.

Moyes said: "Well, I didn't know what was coming out. I've only just heard this morning about it." The mind struggles to imagine Ferguson not knowing that a key player, whose future had been in doubt, was to speak to the club's in-house magazine and what might be said. Yet if somehow this had slipped under the radar, Ferguson, who understood that control was paramount, would have been loathe to admit as much to the media on the day the interview was aired in the national press.

If United manage to overcome a Champions League first-leg deficit for only the second time in their history on Wednesday against Olympiakos, and progress to the quarter-finals, the picture will change markedly.

"We have to go for the throat to get the win. We won't be gung-ho but we will certainly go with a mindset to overhaul the deficit as quickly as we can," Moyes said.

The manager knows he needs a result, perhaps as never before in his career.
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Jamie Jackson from the Guardian. Link

The press is starting to pick up on things people here have been saying for two months now.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He spoke about his vision for the club today, and the direction he wants to take. I, like many others, would love to know what this is. This is a man who's apparent footballing philosophy is to stick with what he knows, regardless of performance and result.
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Average mortals can't handle his radical philosophy and tactics. He even said so in the presser.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
He spoke about his vision for the club today, and the direction he wants to take. I, like many others, would love to know what this is. This is a man who's apparent footballing philosophy is to stick with what he knows, regardless of performance and result.
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The direction is simple - upwards. The vision thing is more elusive, and he like GH Bush seems not to have it.
 
Gladiator said:
@Shimo how often is it done in football though?
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It's not often done in football but, ours was a a little unique As others have shown, our board is run by not football men for the most part. Most here laugh at when owners of other clubs that know nothing about football will just willy nilly hire/fire people. If you look at our club, the football people are Sir Bobby and Sir Alex - so even putting together an interview process was not going to do much. How much was a Glazer really going to be able to ascertain how good a manager anyone was going to be ? They would have deferred to Sir Bobby and Sir Alex anyway. Both of those guys wholeheartedly felt (and may still feel) that Moyes was the right guy.

Funny thing is people are banging on about interviewing and what not, that really isn't a norm in football is it for the big clubs? Most of the managers they pick are hand selected and that usually happens at the recommendation of 1 or 2 people in the organization - whether it's a director of football or couple others. Then they may go through to get agreement from the board. We pretty much did the same as anyone else.

Interviews and vetting help when you know nothing about the people you are looking at - at this level it's more of a few people talking and just ensuring they are all on the same page.
 
The club know what they're doing, right?

This is genuinely all I have to cling to right now. I am praying the powers that be know what they're doing, because the vast majority of us would sack him in the morning without a second thought.
 
There were some dumbos in the cafe, who were rooting for managers like Moyes and ONeill regardless of the shit on a stick football. Their brilliant one point counter was these managers operated on a shoe string budget and that should be be nuff to run the show at a marquee club, all they need is a chance.

You must be really careful in what you wish for.
 
Shimo said:
It's not often done in football but, ours was a a little unique As others have shown, our board is run by not football men for the most part. Most here laugh at when owners of other clubs that know nothing about football will just willy nilly hire/fire people. If you look at our club, the football people are Sir Bobby and Sir Alex - so even putting together an interview process was not going to do much. How much was a Glazer really going to be able to ascertain how good a manager anyone was going to be ? They would have deferred to Sir Bobby and Sir Alex anyway. Both of those guys wholeheartedly felt (and may still feel) that Moyes was the right guy.

Funny thing is people are banging on about interviewing and what not, that really isn't a norm in football is it for the big clubs? Most of the managers they pick are hand selected and that usually happens at the recommendation of 1 or 2 people in the organization - whether it's a director of football or couple others. Then they may go through to get agreement from the board. We pretty much did the same as anyone else.

Interviews and vetting help when you know nothing about the people you are looking at - at this level it's more of a few people talking and just ensuring they are all on the same page.
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I have no idea. Depends on the big clubs you're talking about and the process they used. Curious question worth exploring imo. Was mancini and pellegrini hand-picked or was more careful planning involved?
 
vijay said:
There were some dumbos in the cafe, who were rooting for managers like Moyes and ONeill regardless of the shit on a stick football. Their brilliant one point counter was these managers operated on a shoe string budget and that should be be nuff to run the show at a marquee club, all they need is a chance.

You must be really careful in what you wish for.
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it also suggests a hopeful assumption that because said manager can perform with a shoestring budget, when they get a bigger one, they'll know exactly what to do. However, it can be the exact opposite because they may not be sure what to do as they've been so used to working within the limits. This is a poor analogy but it's sort of like letting an office worker join the management and planning setup where they are held responsible for coming up with big ideas to move the company forward. yet that office worker felt a lot more comfortable with his daily routine and doing what was required. instead of making the most of opportunity, the office worker becomes frozen due to hesitation and uncertainty and ends up doing a poor job. when he's allowed to return his usual environment, he goes back to being productive.
 
Shimo said:
It's not often done in football but, ours was a a little unique As others have shown, our board is run by not football men for the most part. Most here laugh at when owners of other clubs that know nothing about football will just willy nilly hire/fire people. If you look at our club, the football people are Sir Bobby and Sir Alex - so even putting together an interview process was not going to do much. How much was a Glazer really going to be able to ascertain how good a manager anyone was going to be ? They would have deferred to Sir Bobby and Sir Alex anyway. Both of those guys wholeheartedly felt (and may still feel) that Moyes was the right guy.

Funny thing is people are banging on about interviewing and what not, that really isn't a norm in football is it for the big clubs? Most of the managers they pick are hand selected and that usually happens at the recommendation of 1 or 2 people in the organization - whether it's a director of football or couple others. Then they may go through to get agreement from the board. We pretty much did the same as anyone else.

Interviews and vetting help when you know nothing about the people you are looking at - at this level it's more of a few people talking and just ensuring they are all on the same page.
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I'm not sure how the Liverpool structure work like, but I don't think Henry and co are more football people than the Glazers. And yet, Liverpool seemed to work extensively to decide on a few options and try to ascertain which was the right option for them.

Anyhow, I'm not saying we had to conduct interviews. Just look at options, think about what sort of manager we want and need, the style of football, his character, his experience. Seems like Moyes was just nailed on from very early on. I mean, if you really had a list of things you want the new manager to have, how many boxes would he actually tick?
 
Was listening to Talkshite earlier today and Alan Brazil mentioned that there is a rumour doing the rounds that Moyes played a video to the team of Everton on the art of defending, in which Rio responded with "what has jagielka won" and it then kicked off big time when rio said "what have you won boss".
 
Nate Dogg said:
Was listening to Talkshite earlier today and Alan Brazil mentioned that there is a rumour doing the rounds that Moyes played a video to the team of Everton on the art of defending, in which Rio responded with "what has jagielka won" and it then kicked off big time when rio said "what have you won boss".
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That must be bollocks. Moyes can't be presenting the league champions with Everton videos, surely bollocks. As unimaginative and cautious a manager Moyes is, he's not retarded. Is he?
 
Nate Dogg said:
Was listening to Talkshite earlier today and Alan Brazil mentioned that there is a rumour doing the rounds that Moyes played a video to the team of Everton on the art of defending, in which Rio responded with "what has jagielka won" and it then kicked off big time when rio said "what have you won boss".
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:lol:
 
vijay said:
There were some dumbos in the cafe, who were rooting for managers like Moyes and ONeill regardless of the shit on a stick football. Their brilliant one point counter was these managers operated on a shoe string budget and that should be be nuff to run the show at a marquee club, all they need is a chance.

You must be really careful in what you wish for.
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I used to laugh at Moyes' being brought up. It seemed so ridiculous to me.
 
So you know what's going to happen?

- Klopp is going to be available in the summer, because he's sick of the Bayernliga's monopoly and is ready for a change
- United will stick with Moyes
- Klopp will go to maybe Barca, or more likely a not quite huge club, perhaps even a Spurs type
- United will continue to stink it out, finally getting rid of Moyes at Christmas when we're 10th
- Klopp will be a revelation wherever he goes, and release quotes how he was ready to join Shinji but United had faith in Moyes
- Ferguson will continue to say Moyes is the right choice and that's he's never wrong. As was Djemba-Djemba. And Obertan. And Bebe.

The CAF will become a suicide-watch forum.
 
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