I usually treat anything Red Issue says with a massive pinch of salt. However, if there's discontent even amongst the coaching staff, surely something has to give soon?
Moyes So Far!
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I usually treat anything Red Issue says with a massive pinch of salt. However, if there's discontent even amongst the coaching staff, surely something has to give soon?
I think the worst thing about all this is the acceptance. When the first goal went in I knew the game was finished, the players knew the game was finished, everyone knew we weren't coming back, we were 1-0 down after 30 minutes at Old Trafford and barring a set-piece goal the game was up. This is how far and how quickly we've fallen. We just meander from defeat to defeat and nothing seems to get done about it. Moyes after the game yesterday said he couldn't explain it, there seemed to be no pronouncement of how completely unacceptable it was, which it was, hyperbole is used a lot in football but make no mistake, the performance yesterday from him and his players was unacceptable. People have mentioned the 6-1, seemingly forgetting that until Evans' sending off we were the dominant side, and that the reason we lost three goals in the last five minutes was because after Fletcher brought the game back to 3-1, the players, with 10 men, kept bombing forward believing they could still get something from the game. Yes it was folly, but that's the attitude required to be champions, 3-1 down with 10 minutes left and with 10 men that side still refused to accept they were beaten, 1-0 down after 30 minutes with 11 men this side know they're beat. And most of these are the same players. In just eight months these players have gone from having a win at all costs attitude to just accepting they're beat, a losing mentality has creeped into this club and is growing at an alarming rate. The manager and players keep on mentioning luck, and the worrying thing is it really seems like they believe it. We keep hearing about how everyone is hurting, well I see absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever, there's no reaction, ever. No reaction to going a goal down in games, no reaction to being embarrassed and dominated by Liverpool and City, not even a refection to being humbled by Olympiakos. We get nothing, shoulders are shrugged and we "move on to the next game."
I see no direction from the club, I don't know what the overall vision is, we just appear to be existing. There are no expectations on David Moyes this season, and as such there are no expectations on the players, and everyone is performing as if that's the case. We've just wasted a year, Jones, Rafael, Cleverley, Welbeck, none of these players have improved this year, some have even gone backwards. The club has gone backwards, not just from last season which was inevitable, but from the start of this season, things are getting worse, not better. Our form in 2014 is relegation form, again that's not hyperbolic, it's true, and all I can see is everyone accepting it. The board are accepting it, they aren't going to make a change, Moyes is accepting it, he doesn't think the players are up to scratch, and the players are accepting it, they don't think they'll be here next season. It is remarkable how quick and sharp this fall has been, and something has to be done about it, whether it's £200m worth of talent or whether it's sacking the manager, or whether it's both, we can't just keep on accepting it, otherwise the people who are saying "it's just one season" will be made to look extremely foolish, one year will become 18 months, and so on, these things can spiral very quickly, they are spiralling very quickly. I said around November that this season was quite enjoyable, well it's turned into a bit of a nightmare now, the novelty has worn off.
I see no direction from the club, I don't know what the overall vision is, we just appear to be existing. There are no expectations on David Moyes this season, and as such there are no expectations on the players, and everyone is performing as if that's the case. We've just wasted a year, Jones, Rafael, Cleverley, Welbeck, none of these players have improved this year, some have even gone backwards. The club has gone backwards, not just from last season which was inevitable, but from the start of this season, things are getting worse, not better. Our form in 2014 is relegation form, again that's not hyperbolic, it's true, and all I can see is everyone accepting it. The board are accepting it, they aren't going to make a change, Moyes is accepting it, he doesn't think the players are up to scratch, and the players are accepting it, they don't think they'll be here next season. It is remarkable how quick and sharp this fall has been, and something has to be done about it, whether it's £200m worth of talent or whether it's sacking the manager, or whether it's both, we can't just keep on accepting it, otherwise the people who are saying "it's just one season" will be made to look extremely foolish, one year will become 18 months, and so on, these things can spiral very quickly, they are spiralling very quickly. I said around November that this season was quite enjoyable, well it's turned into a bit of a nightmare now, the novelty has worn off.
Which is a stupid response, as October was obviously too early, and December is still reasonably early - plus we hit some decent form in middle/latter part of that month.
This is my problem with Red Issue - it says some fecking daft shit at times.
I remember when we used to laugh at opposition and made "sack watch" thread because it was inevitable their manager would get the boot sooner rather than later. Ironically, such a thread seem much more relavant with Moyes consider his accomplishment at United this season.
As Laurent Blanc stated and probably not just France alone, he would have been sacked three times already at any other top club. The worst thing about Moyes is that he does not have a working philosophy or an identity. It would be asanine for Moyes to rebuild United if the only noteworthy philosophy of his, is keep crossing, lob the ball to Fellaini(at Everton) and cater to our top players every need. Despite his inexperience, I much rather United fire Moyes now and rebuild with mauricio pochettino. His philosophy of high pressing, dynamism(in almost the total football manner), intricacy but aggressive attack are small part of his philosophy I can see working well at United. However, after the season Moyes has had, that is no longer possible and an experience manager like Van gaal seems much appropriate if we want to embue some confidence into the current United squad.
Nevertheless, I was a fan of Moyes and if he can get past Olympiakos there will be a sign of hope for his future. For that to happen though, he would have to do what he has showcased only a few times this season. Which is to make the team play as a unit and enjoy the football they are playing.
As Laurent Blanc stated and probably not just France alone, he would have been sacked three times already at any other top club. The worst thing about Moyes is that he does not have a working philosophy or an identity. It would be asanine for Moyes to rebuild United if the only noteworthy philosophy of his, is keep crossing, lob the ball to Fellaini(at Everton) and cater to our top players every need. Despite his inexperience, I much rather United fire Moyes now and rebuild with mauricio pochettino. His philosophy of high pressing, dynamism(in almost the total football manner), intricacy but aggressive attack are small part of his philosophy I can see working well at United. However, after the season Moyes has had, that is no longer possible and an experience manager like Van gaal seems much appropriate if we want to embue some confidence into the current United squad.
Nevertheless, I was a fan of Moyes and if he can get past Olympiakos there will be a sign of hope for his future. For that to happen though, he would have to do what he has showcased only a few times this season. Which is to make the team play as a unit and enjoy the football they are playing.
It's desperation abuse time. Everyone's getting it, as we're so damm ropey.
Even good servants to the club I see.
Fwiw, the people giving anyone abuse are out of order. Not wanting Moyes to be manager anymore is fine, but calling him and his staff every dick under the sun makes you look like a pillock.
Seen a few calls for Pochettino and Martinez.
Moyes surely shows that we need someone who is used to winning, used to managing a big club.
It's one thing taking a Southampton or Everton to top 6/7 but for us that is obviously a monumental failure.
The part about Giggs and Rio was in Red Issue a couple of weeks back, not yesterdays. It's the same bit that said Rafael had fallen out with Moyes.
I don't believe that about Giggs. If it is true, I think Moyes is fecked.
I don't believe that about Giggs. If it is true, I think Moyes is fecked.
We have gone from being a club that makes its own luck, even at the death, even with the odds against us to relying on chance for wins. Its pathetic. And the players you mentioned aren't the only ones who have gone backwards. Everyone looks worse than they did last year. Van Persie can barely stay onside and his decision making is clearly slower. Carrick's form has fallen off a cliff. Rooney's first touch has gone missing more times than the invisible man. The players don't believe in Moyes, they don't think he can turn it around and their unhappiness about that is dragging us further down.
Sheedy probably wouldn't have got into a Moyes side himself as he was a pretty good player.
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I think we might wish David luck with his future endeavors in the summer and start a fresh with a new man. Whoever comes in would then have to deal with comparisons with Moyes rather than Sir Alex and bring some positivity back as we make progress bit by bit.
Theres just too much negativity and too little improvement in the Moyes regime to give anyone the impression that next season we'll be challenging for top 3
Theres just too much negativity and too little improvement in the Moyes regime to give anyone the impression that next season we'll be challenging for top 3
It's hilarious that he still hasn't noticed we're cack at crosses. Really you'd think the position he was in that he'd at least TRY something different.
Knowing him we'll set up to be hard to beat against Olympiakos, draw 1-1 and he'll say it's a great result.
The impression that he is obsessed with defending in training you wonder if they actually practice crossing. If we were actually not leaking goals would be something, but we are and aren't scoring enough either, not even creating chances.
How is he still in the job? 
That Red Issue piece about Giggs is very concerning to me, and might explain why he hasn't been involved much recently if he's fallen out with Moyes. You'd think that would seal Moyes' fate if he's lost Giggs as an ally - or would the club and board back him even over our greatest servant?
Oh our lack of creation and invention up front continues to be a footballing tragedy, especially given the players he has. When you think of that front four he has plus the alternatives on the bench, to be that blunt going forward is perversely a considerable achievement.
How is he still in the job?
If you eliminate the plausible... only the implausible remains.
So with that in mind... Voodoo.
Giggs is irrelevant to consideration.
You only to have look at Chelsea the other season when the big players fell out with AVB.
The second he went the performance levels improved as if by magic!
No reason that wouldn't happen here. We have Rooney, Mata, VP, Januzaj, Carrick, Rafael, De Gea, and plenty of others for goodness sake.
The second he went the performance levels improved as if by magic!
No reason that wouldn't happen here. We have Rooney, Mata, VP, Januzaj, Carrick, Rafael, De Gea, and plenty of others for goodness sake.
I was gonna go with Wicca but Voodoo works.
Anyone thinks the board might be waiting to see if we get knocked out against olympiacos before giving him the boot? Maybe it doesn't make sense to sack him while we are still in with a shout in our one last competiton. I'm being optimistic that we will sack him after we inevitably get knocked out against olympiacos.
Giggs is a local lad, with friends from long back, if he has been voicing his concerns it is bound to come out.
Moyes truly is a football genius. His decision to sack the existing backroom staff and bring in his crew of yes-men from Everton was a visionary move. It's given him enormous job security. It's up to the players now to call Moyes out for the impostor he is. We will need more players to rise with Giggs and stage a mutiny against every single one of these dinosaurs and charlatans brought in from Everton last summer.
In all seriousness I'm becoming extremely disillusioned with United now. I can't feel positive or excited about the club until this man is gone. It's breaking my heart.
Sack him, bring in Di Matteo and we'll overcome a first leg deficit and fluke the Champions League like Chelsea a couple of seasons ago. 
There's a good chance of that. If we got through it might look silly to sack him, but if we go out then that's another good reason to get rid.
I think clauses in his contract probably dictate that they'll have to wait until it's mathematically impossible for us to finish 4th... if they want to do it at all that is.
If we go out of CL and lose to WHU and City then surely he must go.
I hope they're at least seriously contemplating sacking him, you wouldn't know with some of these dinosaurs running the club though. There is absolutely no chance Moyes is overturning the deficit, Giggs should lead us into the game.
I'd think so as well, but if the opinion of any player would have an impact at board-level then it would be him. Ultimately though I can't see anyway from here on in that real questions will be raised inside the club about Moyes - he seems completely untouchable.
To play Devil's advocate - why?
We're effectively out of the CL anyway; even if we get through what realistic chance to we have vs our next round opponents? And the league or top 4 is gone anyway.
The results of our next three games are irrelevant. Win three, lose them all or draw each one - makes no difference to anything whatsoever.
I feel exactly the same. I love United and I no longer look forward to games, in fact I dread every game. All the humiliation when we mess up again. In fact I think other teams fans are in shock about our demise.
It depresses me a little that I see us going out of Europe and getting mauled by City yet he won't be sacked.
yeah he is fecked then .he gets fecket with a 25mill payout. but if its not true the everyone else who loves united is fecked
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