Moyes So Far!

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We need him to leave today......

If he stays and the inevitable defeat on Wednesday knocks us out of Europe, we're screwed. 5th / 6th at very best even if someone else comes in and lifts us and no Europe next season. A sacking / resignation today opens up the very slim opportunity that we get through this round and do a Chelsea 2012 and improve for the Summer. Even if that doesn't happen, we get the rest of the season to improve, boost morale, keep our best players in the summer and get a good off-season, with hopefully a few top signings, then start next season strongly.

If he goes out on Wednesday, then he will more than likely get his 'rebuild' (aka another guaranteed year of taking us further down the abyss) and money will be spunked and maybe not given to his successor.
 
Mel_F said:
Here's a question. Would people rather us lose to Olympiakos or win and potentially face the likes of Bayern/Real/Atletico in the next round? Because if we do, I have a feeling we'd get absolutely twatted.
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You know what, you're absolutely right.

Let's not stop there, let's pull out of the cups and the league and just not try because we might get beat.
 
togg said:
Some good points here. The one thing I'm in total agreement is that I believe Moyes will be here next season. But goodness, did anyone see him in his post match interviews. He looked drained, like he hasn't slept for weeks. He's aged so much. I'm starting to think it might be better for his health to step down!!
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Yeh, This is a reaccuring thing that does concern me. He was so aggressive and fiery at Everton and just looks shell shocked to near paralysis.

I think the biggest question is whether or not he can grow into the role. Being able to handle the pressure could be his downfall. It's hard to instill confidence in players is hard when you have none yourself.
 
.Rossi said:
According to the rest of the Red Issue article, Moyes only has Evra and Rooney on his side in the team. Charlton and Phil Neville are his other two big supporters....

The main culprits against him are Giggs, Rio, RVP, Carrick, Hernandez and Kagawa
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If it's true (not sure that it is) I'm surprised Evra is a supporter considering the very public hunt for a left-back... but then maybe, after all his stuff with the French team, he just doesn't want to rock the boat.

It's the Giggs thing thats big... if people are uncomfortable being loyal to the players over Moyes, I don't think anyone should or would feel uncomfortable being loyal to Giggs over Moyes... considering he's both a player, on the staff, and is Ryan fecking Giggs.

IF it's true... which is a big IF considering it's the Red Issue.
 
Go out on Wednesday and the season is basically over, nothing left to play for. I'd rather we go through and have at least one or two more games where something is on the line.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
If it's true (not sure that it is) I'm surprised Evra is a supporter considering the very public hunt for a left-back... but then maybe, after all his stuff with the French team, he just doesn't want to rock the boat.

It's the Giggs thing thats big... if people are uncomfortable being loyal to the players over Moyes, I don't think anyone should or would feel uncomfortable being loyal to Giggs over Moyes... considering he's both a player, on the staff, and is Ryan fecking Giggs.

IF it's true... which is a big IF considering it's the Red Issue.
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Like you said, if it's true but, I've never known Red Issue to be sensationalist to this extent...Nor have they the need to make up stories to shift copies like a newspaper
 
Drummer said:
You ask me like I have all the answers. I've never pretended to know everything on the moyes debate.

What I am simply saying is that I don't believe we have seen anywhere near the best of moyes. Whether or not we ever will is debatable in the context of how much time is a fair amount before the club cuts it's losses.

Potential talent can just as easily be untapped or never fully fulfilled in management as it can in players. Talent does not equate to success, moyes just may not ever be able to deal with the expectation and pressure of the job. This doesn't mean he's a bad manager, just he may be proven to be not the one we need.
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This wasn't a question that required any special insight or knowledge. What did you think of the fact he took so long to make changes in the game ? Simple question really.
 
.Rossi said:
According to the rest of the Red Issue article, Moyes only has Evra and Rooney on his side in the team. Charlton and Phil Neville are his other two big supporters....

The main culprits against him are Giggs, Rio, RVP, Carrick, Hernandez and Kagawa
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VP and Carrick's form has dropped off like a stone this season.

The other anti guys barely get a look In so hard to judge!
 
The fans singing '20 times' yesterday seems to have been misinterpreted as support and patience for Moyes. Maybe people expected discontent with such a result, but this was Liverpool and we wanted to shut them up inside OT. It's one thing having to watch them win, it's another to have to listen to, and see the vermin singing and dancing about it as well. We drowned them out completely. The atmosphere was great especially in that last 10-15 minutes, and as long as I go to OT I will support the team but it would never have been so loud imo if it wasn't Liverpool (maybe City?). Similar performance against Olympiakos and I doubt the atmosphere will be anything like that.

I must admit though Moyes is still clapped onto the pitch as he walks to the dugout and there were a few lines of 'every single one of us will stand by David Moyes' and 'David Moyes red and white army'. In the first half. It might be petty of me but I won't join in with any of that. Singing '20 times' yesterday for me, was about our rivalry with Liverpool and our love for the club even when we're going through a tough time, not about supporting or showing patience to Moyes. I can't speak for everyone but I'd rather he was gone.
 
Sandikan said:
VP and Carrick's form has dropped off like a stone this season.

The other anti guys barely get a look In so hard to judge!
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To be fair, if I you were asked to pick a bunch of players who you currently think were "anti-moyes" if there's such a thing... those would be the names you would pick straight away.

That's why I'm not really on board with it... it seems like a very tidy story, with all the neat bows and strings added to it.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair, if I you were asked to pick a bunch of players who you currently think were "anti-moyes" if there's such a thing... those would be the names you would pick straight away.

That's why I'm not really on board with it... it seems like a very tidy story, with all the neat bows and strings added to it.
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Yeah but Giggs....And also add to the fact, Valencia, Young have nowt to complain about....And I wouldn't expect any of the younger players to kick up a fuss....You think Chris Smalling is going to start pissing and moaning considering where he was not so long ago?
 
Annihilate Now! said:
To be fair, if I you were asked to pick a bunch of players who you currently think were "anti-moyes" if there's such a thing... those would be the names you would pick straight away.

That's why I'm not really on board with it... it seems like a very tidy story, with all the neat bows and strings added to it.
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I am surprised at Carrick's name being touted as being a troublemaker. He always seems the opposite.
 
He's somehow managed to become bigger than the club for some, it seems, seeing as there are people who think we owe him more time and several hundred million to build his own team.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
I am surprised at Carrick's name being touted as being a troublemaker. He always seems the opposite.
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Looking at his play/demeanour on the pitch... I wouldn't say it'd be much a surprise if he wasn't happy.

He certainly looks out of sorts, and a shadow of who he was last season.
 
Drummer said:
I qualified exactly how I feel in the post. Instead of picking out one sentance that's completely unrepresentative of its content you can either read it again or ask somebody else to explain it to you.
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Why don't you just answer a simple question? Too complicated eh?

Do you feel he's improving?
 
The other revelation to come from the Red Issue article is that Fergie is "seriously" considering coming out of retirement...

If true and if it does happen, we have repeated the Busby episode...Word for word, line for line
 
.Rossi said:
The other revelation to come from the Red Issue article is that Fergie is "seriously" considering coming out of retirement...

If true and if it does happen, we have repeated the Busby episode...Word for word, line for line
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No chance.
 
Who would he have in his backroom staff if he came back?

His setup is gone. Don't see how he it makes sense to come back without it.
 
Like I said in the other thread, bringing SAF back would be a backward step. We'd have to eventually replace him anyway.

We are better off bringing the right man rather than looking for bandaid fixes.
 
B20 said:
Who would he have in his backroom staff if he came back?

His setup is gone. Don't see how he it makes sense to come back without it.
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Well Phelan and Rene don't do anything apart from talk to the media nowadays... so they could easily come back.

Not that Fergie is ever going to come back though.
 
.Rossi said:
Thats what I thought....But I also thought Moyes had no chance of landing this job. I also thought he'd have no chance of doing this badly.

Basically, I haven't a notion what to think anymore!!
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I actually think the club will give him another year, and if he finishes 4th next year they will give him a third year (regardless of how much he spends in the Summer).

The reason for all this is just because they're trying to prove a point. SAF made it difficult for the club to sack Moyes now with that speech, although to be honest I don't think he thought it would be this bad.

The only chance we have is if the Glazers intervene personally, which doesn't seem like the way they want to run the club. Only thing that might convince them to do so is either the players revolting (which is more likely) or the fans revolting, which is both unlikely and bad imo (because it somewhat tarnishes the image of the club a little).
 
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Danny1982 said:
I actually think the club will give him another year, and if he finishes 4th next year they will give him a third year (regardless of how much he spends in the Summer).

The reason for all this is just because they're trying to prove a point. SAF made it difficult for the club to sack Moyes now with that speech, although to be honest I don't think he thought it would be this bad.

The only chance we have is if the Glazers intervene personally, which doesn't seem like the way they want to run the club. Only thing that might convince them to do so is either the players revolting (which is more likely) or the fans revolting, which is both unlikely and bad imo (because it somewhat tarnishes the image of the club a little).
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They threw out their coach in America over him not meeting their standards and objectives...After one year
 
.Rossi said:
The other revelation to come from the Red Issue article is that Fergie is "seriously" considering coming out of retirement...

If true and if it does happen, we have repeated the Busby episode...Word for word, line for line
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that's where Red Issure really lose me. There is no way Fergie will come out of retirement. Apart from watching United, he's having the time of his life by all accounts.
 
I don't want Ferguson to come out of retirement. Bunch of fecking daddies boys if that happens.

I can actually see something happening though, more than I could a couple of weeks ago. I suppose you don't really appreciate the effect of losing those 2 big games has until it happens. Start getting battered at home to Liverpool and you're in big trouble.
 
Mel_F said:
I fecking hope not. It would be worse than keeping Moyes next season.
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Yep.

If we can make the current situation worse, its by appointing SAF till the end of season. Absolutely 0 benefits to that.
 
RustyS said:
Don't worry, we've already won the award of the most patient club out there that you seem so concerned with.

Any other club of our stature would've realised how inept Moyes has been and sacked him already. As far as most of us are concerned, we care more about knowing that the right man is in the job rather than supporting whoever nailed the job to appear more loyal than other fans.

I was just arguing yesterday that we should give him till the summer although at no level do I actually believe that he has what it takes to get us playing good football. With the stuff coming out now, and DM now saying that the job is "harder that he thought", maybe the best thing to do is end this right now. I don't see how things can change now or in the summer unless he sells half the squad and gets in new players. I don't trust him enough at this point and more importantly I don't believe that half of our squad needs replacing. I also think that even the staunchest supporter of Moyes deep down knows that a Mourinho or a Pep would be doing a lot better with this squad than Moyes. That to me says one thing; the man is not good enough and was the wrong appointment.
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We all know he's not 'inept'. I don't know why people feel the need to exaggerate the situation. I have no problem with people rightly pointing out that we play very badly at times. I agree with sentiments that we are quite negative, focussed on not conceding etc. But the arguments descend into just Moyes bashing far too quickly and it takes away from the discussion a lot. Like there's no point saying Moyes is inept, like one end of the scale saying moyes supporters wouldn't even say mourinho or pep aren't better... obviously they are better managers... it's the other end of the scale trying to get people to accept that Moyes is an amateur. I don't know why people can't accept that he has had a good career and perhaps did enough to earn a shot at a big club, perhaps not, and take the discussion from there. He doesn't have to be 'inept' for things to not work out at united... and indeed they don't seem to be working out. Bad results in next 3 games will be nails in his coffin I'd wager
 
.Rossi said:
Didn't look that way yesterday....
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He looked absolutely miserable, like the rest of us I'm sure. But for all his misjudgement in hiring Moyes he is fully aware of what happened with Sir Matt and would want to avoid it at all costs. He won't come out of retirement no matter what and that's the way it should be. Besides a new manager coming in would have a much easier time in terms of pressure following Moyes rather than Sir Alex, especially as most of the fans' demands being quite low right now after being subjected to such dross this season, and likely more to come.
 
As good as Fergie is, even he couldn't arrest the decline in the number of games left in the season. So even if they did want to change, they'd let it run to the end of the season and identify someone.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
We all know he's not 'inept'. I don't know why people feel the need to exaggerate the situation. I have no problem with people rightly pointing out that we play very badly at times. I agree with sentiments that we are quite negative, focussed on not conceding etc. But the arguments descend into just Moyes bashing far too quickly and it takes away from the discussion a lot. Like there's no point saying Moyes is inept, like one end of the scale saying moyes supporters wouldn't even say mourinho or pep aren't better... obviously they are better managers... it's the other end of the scale trying to get people to accept that Moyes is an amateur. I don't know why people can't accept that he has had a good career and perhaps did enough to earn a shot at a big club, perhaps not, and take the discussion from there. He doesn't have to be 'inept' for things to not work out at united... and indeed they don't seem to be working out. Bad results in next 3 gamepossibly e nails in his coffin I'd wager
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You're right. He's not necessarily inept. A proper way to phrase it would be: In his time at Manchester United, David Moyes has appeared to be completely inept.

The thing is, you can't really rely on his career to predict or prove that he's good enough for the job here. It's been done to death but a lot of the skills needed to manage Everton and Preston are quiet different than what is needed at United. This is really evident in what the man says himself. We don't need to be hard to beat, other teams have to worry about being hard to beat when our players step on the pitch. What a lot of people can't comprehend is why we chose a manager who needs to be eased into the job and needs all the help he can get to possibly become a success here. We are a huge club and I'm fairly certain that had we made a shortlist of the best managers out there, we could get 2-3 interested in the job.

It's all history now. Bar a miraculous series of events, the countdown has started IMO. The momentum is completely against him. The players have entered a spiral of losing confidence, losing matches, and in turn losing more confidence. They are playing like complete strangers out there and IMO aside from Rafael and Januzaj yesterday, their body language was that of a team that has given up.
 
Mystry said:
He looked absolutely miserable, like the rest of us I'm sure. But for all his misjudgement in hiring Moyes he is fully aware of what happened with Sir Matt and would want to avoid it at all costs. He won't come out of retirement no matter what and that's the way it should be. Besides a new manager coming in would have a much easier time in terms of pressure following Moyes rather than Sir Alex, especially as most of the fans' demands being quite low right now after being subjected to such dross this season, and likely more to come.
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That's the only small joy a sacking would bring. A new manager would have a lot easier time than Moyes has had, who would in effect be the patsy to Fergie's incredible reign.
 
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