No he's been watching every team except the ones we are actually playing.
Moyes So Far!
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As depressing as it is, I think at the end of the season he'll be quietly taken out back and shot. I've been on his side for a long time, and I still think he's a good coach, but I don't think this is going to turn around. There have been a number of false dawns this season, games where we finally seemed to be getting it together, but performances seem to be getting worse if anything.
In 2007/08 away from Old Trafford in the League, our record was 10-4-5 (W-D-L).
In 2008/09 it was 12-4-3
In 2009/10 it was 11-3-5
In 2010/11 it was 5-10-4
In 2011/12 it was 13-3-3
In 2012/13 it was 12-5-2
And so an average of 10-5-4
This season it is currently 8-3-4 and based on the last 15 games over the next four our projected away record would be 10 - 4 - 5
I wouldn't say beyond shocking, and I wouldn't say unacceptable therefore it seems his focus is solely on home form. He actually has more points than City, Liverpool and Chelsea away from home, I just don't know what has happened at Old Trafford. It's got to be a confidence thing, that said, evidently he is not a tactician, he cannot break down the teams that park the bus and he cannot exploit opposition frailties in the big games therefore we need somebody that has this ability.
To be frank , the team performance was far more disappointing then any decisions made during the game.
This team has big defeats in them, it's not so long ago that city beat us 6-1 at home. That's not to excuse yesterday, I think we have seen far too many times this season the worst of this team.
I still believe that there is little confidence running through the team and that most of that is emanating from moyes struggling to get to grips with the job.
I find it hard to defend moyes as I imagine many fans found it in not booing after ft at old Trafford. I don't like what I see and it's truely painful watching united these days.
But I'm not prepared to call for his head. There is a chance he will never grow into the role and there is a chance he will be better for this horrible season.
This season is a right off no matter what happens. They will not win cl or get a top 4. Gotta be hard to motivate the champions of England for that. That asides, having the future if so many players in doubt can't help.
I don't see any benefit in sacking moyes now if the first choice option isn't available. I would like to see more fight from moyes and a team selection that's not simply about squeezing all the top forward players into the team.
I still don't think moyes is doing himself justice, but he has to start showing that he's learning. A rampant , confident Liverpool was always going to be tough but this will not be tolerated another season.
I personally applaud the home fans yesterday. It's far easier turning on a manager in this situation. Having faith in a struggling manager is not easy , but faith doesn't require you to see proof of what you believe. I believe moyes is far better then what we are seeing from a team he is managing. The one thing I can't say is if he will ever recognise this potential or how long it might take.
I'm prepared to give him another season if the club feels he is improving. I feel that he will be judged on what he has learned this season and if there is no signs that he is improving he will be moved on.
He needs to make some big calls, particularly to stamp his authority on the team. Needs to stop being so passive. He's not being himself and it's clear he's still a bit in awe of the job.
Here's a question. Would people rather us lose to Olympiakos or win and potentially face the likes of Bayern/Real/Atletico in the next round? Because if we do, I have a feeling we'd get absolutely twatted.
No tonking we might get from Bayern/Real/Barca could be anywhere near as embarassing as going out against fecking Olympiakos whose best player is a washed-up Saviola.
Imagine having Tim Sherwood as manager?
Small mercies!
Small mercies!
Some good points here. The one thing I'm in total agreement is that I believe Moyes will be here next season. But goodness, did anyone see him in his post match interviews. He looked drained, like he hasn't slept for weeks. He's aged so much. I'm starting to think it might be better for his health to step down!!
The fans at OT really have been brilliant this season. If they ever do turn on Moyes you'd have to imagine that'd spell the end for him, the frustration is bound to be building. It won't be pretty when it happens though...
It would seem weird to actually want us to lose, plus I suspect we're going to win anyway.
If that means we end up getting smashed by someone like Madrid then so be it. Moyes is the manager of Manchester United and competing with clubs like Madrid is what we're supposed to be about. I'm not going to start hoping we lose just so Moyes can avoid embarrassing himself further.
It would seem weird to actually want us to lose, plus I suspect we're going to win anyway.
If that means we end up getting smashed by someone like Madrid then so be it. Moyes is the manager of Manchester United and competing with clubs like Madrid is what we're supposed to be about. I'm not going to start hoping we lose just so Moyes can avoid embarrassing himself further.
He's British. Ask Liverpool fans about how the media treated Hodgson during his Anfield disaster and it was the same. Went very easy on him.
If that is right SAF has misjudged this badly. The whole ethos of Manchester United is giving youth a chance. What was he thinking?
I'm surprised that Moyes still has sympathisers around here. Do people really think he'll comeback next season with a set of new players and suddenly improve our style and our performances? Are people seriously suggesting that after the lows of this season Moyes will suddenly get the players fired and motivated next season? Do people think RVP, Rooney, Januzaj, Mata will walk into training next season and suddenly start clicking on the pitch with the same man and methods that have miserably failed this season? What is it that he will do differently next season that will improve the team? The reality is he is not good enough for the job. He has never previously shown anything to be given this job. No other title chasing would have considered him for the job. This experiment needs to be stopped before it gets out of hand.
Don't worry, we've already won the award of the most patient club out there that you seem so concerned with.
Any other club of our stature would've realised how inept Moyes has been and sacked him already. As far as most of us are concerned, we care more about knowing that the right man is in the job rather than supporting whoever nailed the job to appear more loyal than other fans.
I was just arguing yesterday that we should give him till the summer although at no level do I actually believe that he has what it takes to get us playing good football. With the stuff coming out now, and DM now saying that the job is "harder that he thought", maybe the best thing to do is end this right now. I don't see how things can change now or in the summer unless he sells half the squad and gets in new players. I don't trust him enough at this point and more importantly I don't believe that half of our squad needs replacing. I also think that even the staunchest supporter of Moyes deep down knows that a Mourinho or a Pep would be doing a lot better with this squad than Moyes. That to me says one thing; the man is not good enough and was the wrong appointment.
Apparently Giggs partly inspired the Wales rugby lot to their mamoth win against Scotland...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/ryan-giggs-inspired-wales-rugby-3250275
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...us-deal-with-a-really-low-moment-9193776.html
Well, at least other teams are getting inspied by our player/coaches...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/ryan-giggs-inspired-wales-rugby-3250275
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...us-deal-with-a-really-low-moment-9193776.html
Well, at least other teams are getting inspied by our player/coaches...
It's the 'so far' that kills me. We've got worse to come. At least when City are posting a cricket score against us at Old Trafford to take command of the title race, we can chant 'are you watching Merseyside?'.
That isn't telling the full story. Yes, our away record is below-par, but combine our woeful home record to it and it's a fecking abysmal season all round... These glass half-full analyses are not fooling anyone.
It looks like he couldn't quite know what's going on and he didn't know what his players can or cannot do. His post game interviews says it all. If he's a football man and still has some human decency, he should hold his hands up and tender his resignation because the job is too big for him. It takes a big man to do that but I guess he's a coward!
tragic really.Yeah, because the real courage is in walking away after less than 9 months.
To be fair I could see Madrid or Bayern putting 10 past us over two legs.
I confidently proclaimed that if we finished outside of the top 4 Moyes was 100% for sure going to be fired. I also confidently proclaimed that finishing outside of the top 4 was never going to happen anyway, so it was a moot point.
Not getting at you as I've heard this question a few times but I really don't get the benefit of going out to Olympiakos. You want to go as far in any competition, regardless of a potential hammering off another team. At least if you go out to one of them I suppose your counter argument is you went out to a great team...not Olympiakos. Look at Barca last season, they lost 7 or 8-0 on aggregate to Bayern yet it's not like they've turned awful now and never recovered.
On the topic of Moyes it's a difficult one really in my opinion. It seems quite apparent how he is not cut out for the job. I defended him previously in the past but he just seems clueless and out of ideas (if he ever had any I suppose...) the reluctance to ever change anything is baffling when what he is doing is clearly not working. By the same token people do deserve some kind of time to prove themselves right or change it, but he just doesn't look like he's ever going to do that.
I feel sorry for him to an extent, he obviously doesn't want to do badly, it's just happened. It's no different to anyone else in any other job with the exception of the pressure being a lot higher. I'd imagine it's quite unsettling going to work and people are always on your back and you know this, especially after following one of the best ever but he knew this would happen.
One thing I will say on it is to me he seems like he's been given reassurances he is staying til at least next season. Just a hunch on it but he never really looks under huge pressure (he looks pissed off but never worried for example.) So I'd imagine he will be given until next Christmas time to make it right.
At least we'd see some great football at Old Trafford for a change.
It's all good and well but you haven't really answered my question. More like deflected it. Yes the team performance was shit and the players were individually crap (except DDG) but why did Moyes do next to nothing to rectifiy things ? Why wait for so long for a sub ? Even if it may not have changed things fundamentally, some of our players (RVP, Mata) didn't deserve to still be on the pitch.
Olympiakos gives us a good immediate opportunity to get Liverpool out of our system without stewing on it for a week.
Beat this lot, and enjoy the last game in this cup for at least a year, but who knows...Liverpool didn't think they'd be out of it for 4-5years.
Beat this lot, get a tasty quarter final to look forward to, as otherwise it'll be a nothingness dribble to the end of the season in the league, probably just about stealing a Europa league spot.
Beat this lot, and enjoy the last game in this cup for at least a year, but who knows...Liverpool didn't think they'd be out of it for 4-5years.
Beat this lot, get a tasty quarter final to look forward to, as otherwise it'll be a nothingness dribble to the end of the season in the league, probably just about stealing a Europa league spot.
Football365 ~ Time to address the pro-British bias: http://www.football365.com/john-nicholson/9218458/John-Nicholson
What do you feel?
We won't be in Champions League for the next 5 years. Not under Moyes.
He isn't going anywhere this side of Christmas, but he won't make it to this time next year if we're not top 4. We'll be stubborn, as he was such a Fergie/Bobby pick, but we won't ruin ourselves to prove a point.
I think we will, unfortunately. For some reason I fear that we are going to let him destroy the club just because we think we are special and give our managers time. He could bring us down and he'd still be here. 6 years.
One of the problems, is that there's always a lot of revisionism amongst fans.
And I could see the outrage about turning us from champs to 7th placed chumps turning to genuine praise for spending £150m and getting us competing for top 4 again in a year or so!
Indeed, I've voiced it a few times already - if he manages to finish top 4 next season after spending £100m odd he will somehow be considered a success. In reality he will still be a terrible manager.
The whole season has been a horrible reduction of ambition.
At one stage it was phew, we're only 5 points off Arsenal after beating them, then we dropped off 8 points off 1st, then we were suddenly 8 points off 4th, now we're bloody about 14 off Liverpool and Arsenal, and I don't even want to tease myself looking at crap outfits like Tottenham and Everton.
Without being a bastard, I don't want Europa, I don't want to have those factored into the season ticket, and have to beg my northern work pals to buy them, rather than me drive 3hours up for them!
I qualified exactly how I feel in the post. Instead of picking out one sentance that's completely unrepresentative of its content you can either read it again or ask somebody else to explain it to you.
Our away record is about the same Ferguson managed over the previous six seasons and our away record is better than Mourinho, Pellegrini and Rodgers. Therefore I cannot accept it is below-par, I also acknowledged our home record is very bad however that is where the focus lies, we need to improve our home record only since our away record is just fine.
I also made clear Moyes needs to go therefore who am I trying to fool? The new manager needs to ensure the team starts performing at home however away from home is not a problem. Somebody posted how terrible our home form has been therefore I decided to reply to that post with our away record too. If somebody is going to point out how bad Moyes has performed at home then it is only fair to point out how he has done away too, clearly Moyes needs to go and I made this crystal clear in my post however let's not pretend he hasn't done better than Mourinho, Pellegrini and Rodgers on his travels thus far.
The depressing thing is I can see Moyes reverting back to Young and Valencia on the flanks and get the crossing artillery firing again.
According to the rest of the Red Issue article, Moyes only has Evra and Rooney on his side in the team. Charlton and Phil Neville are his other two big supporters....
The main culprits against him are Giggs, Rio, RVP, Carrick, Hernandez and Kagawa
The main culprits against him are Giggs, Rio, RVP, Carrick, Hernandez and Kagawa
You ask me like I have all the answers. I've never pretended to know everything on the moyes debate.
What I am simply saying is that I don't believe we have seen anywhere near the best of moyes. Whether or not we ever will is debatable in the context of how much time is a fair amount before the club cuts it's losses.
Potential talent can just as easily be untapped or never fully fulfilled in management as it can in players. Talent does not equate to success, moyes just may not ever be able to deal with the expectation and pressure of the job. This doesn't mean he's a bad manager, just he may be proven to be not the one for the job.
I think of it like Forlan. Couldn't hit a barn door for us and was considered a flop. Is la primera leading scorer a few times and plays great stuff for Uruguay.
I think dm may prove to be the same. Talented manager who just couldn't perform at this level with this club.
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