Moyes So Far!

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Seriously, who cares which games he watches? It's so trivial and completely unfair as a point of criticism.
 
There's been a noticeable improvement in the league, broken up by a shocker in Europe but if you look at the games either side of that we're finally starting to look like a football team.

I hope Moyes has the guts to drop RVP against Liverpool and I think Welbeck earned his start.

Onwards and upwards (I hope, at least there's a glimmer of hope)
 
There's been a noticeable improvement in the league, broken up by a shocker in Europe but if you look at the games either side of that we're finally starting to look like a football team.

I hope Moyes has the guts to drop RVP against Liverpool and I think Welbeck earned his start.

Onwards and upwards (I hope, at least there's a glimmer of hope)

I'd argue we haven't played an opponent that we can show a "noticeable improvement", when you're playing the lower sides and winning it's what we should expect, the fact we have now won a couple of them doesn't represent a noticeable improvement for me, time will tell with Pool etc
 
I'd argue we haven't played an opponent that we can show a "noticeable improvement", when you're playing the lower sides and winning it's what we should expect, the fact we have now won a couple of them doesn't represent a noticeable improvement for me, time will tell with Pool etc
We can only play who we're put up against.

Two wins and two clean sheets is good, regardless of opponent, yes?
 
You're genuinely mental if you're criticising the man for scouting trips. That's been a more positive aspect of his reign. I genuinely believe he's trying to learn, adapt and grow into this job. I just still don't know if he will, he has seemingly been stuck in his ways this season.
 
We can only play who we're put up against.

Two wins and two clean sheets is good, regardless of opponent, yes?
Yes, the true test will come over the next three games. Fingers crossed he gets it right.
 
We can only play who we're put up against.

Two wins and two clean sheets is good, regardless of opponent, yes?

Yes, but what's your point? 2 wins and 2 clean sheet's is obviously good. My earlier point still stands though, he needs a higher level of game to see how he approaches it etc, the result may still not be what we need, but that's not directly linked to representing improvement as we can play badly and win, I'd like to see him continue this by making a good team selection, with some substitutes at good times and a team who look they know what their goal is, not necessarily playing like Barcelona as we clearly are a long way, but to show we don't look a bit lost..
 
Yes, but what's your point? 2 wins and 2 clean sheet's is obviously good. My earlier point still stands though, he needs a higher level of game to see how he approaches it etc, the result may still not be what we need, but that's not directly linked to representing improvement as we can play badly and win, I'd like to see him continue this by making a good team selection, with some substitutes at good times and a team who look they know what their goal is, not necessarily playing like Barcelona as we clearly are a long way, but to show we don't look a bit lost..
Yeah, but to be fair, you could have simply put it like this (see below for good post) instead of trying to negate everything I said. You did quote me, after all.
Yes, the true test will come over the next three games. Fingers crossed he gets it right.
Can't argue with that really.

And to answer question one of your post. My point was that we've played well in the last two games, nothing more than that. Certainly not an "our problems are behind us now lads".
 
Are you serious, we don't have the players to unlock defences?

I was responding to a very misguided poster that seems to think we have players capable of playing football like bayern or barca! My point was that until we get players in capable of helping us play like this , it makes sense to play to our strengths which isn't playing fantasy football.
 
I'd argue we haven't played an opponent that we can show a "noticeable improvement", when you're playing the lower sides and winning it's what we should expect, the fact we have now won a couple of them doesn't represent a noticeable improvement for me, time will tell with Pool etc

I'm not exactly a Moyes fan (surprise!) but even I'd even include Arsenal in the noticeable improvement in the League category. It came after horrible performances against Stoke and Fulham and we not only played better, we also stopped a spiral of deterioration in the defence and a further hammer blow to our confidence. Little steps maybe, but at least in the right direction.

Certainly we're about to hit a tough run of games but we're going into them in better shape than we were immediately after the Olympiakos game, the gap between games seemed to help us rather than make the team even tenser. It might not be a big deal, but you have to take your rays of hope where you find them.
 
Maybe it is because he like....enjoys watching football.

Plus he can now get the best seats in the house wherever he goes - got to enjoy that.

In any case he needs to meet people, build up personal connections (or at least become a known face) to agents, directors, other managers. He needs to be one of the people who'll get a tip off if a move is on, or even if it's a non-starter. As long as it's not at the expense of his time with his current players, it can only be a good thing.
 
I was responding to a very misguided poster that seems to think we have players capable of playing football like bayern or barca! My point was that until we get players in capable of helping us play like this , it makes sense to play to our strengths which isn't playing fantasy football.
I got what you were saying, I agree that we haven't got a squad that are to the standard of Barca or Bayern, but I disagree that we haven't got the talent to at least go in that direction. Yes we would need to add, most notably in the central midfield, we have Carrick but he needs help, saying that he still has the ability to control that area.
If you look at the talent in our squad instead of focusing on our weaknesses you will see that we have some world class players all over the pitch, players who are capable of playing to that style, keep possession and play that killer pass, we are spoilt with that type of talent.
If any other team had our front four we would be foaming at the mouth with jealously, yet some still think we need a complete overhaul. If you think playing to our strengths is by crossing the ball, most of which don't get passed the first man then you're deluded IMO
We are not playing to our strengths, it's nothing to do with fantasy football, it's about taking the team to the next level. I'm seeing small signs that Moyes may be finally doing that (in the league anyway) our third goal at the weekend was what I'd class as a team goal, he seems to be mixing it up as well which is good to see.
 
Plus he can now get the best seats in the house wherever he goes - got to enjoy that.

In any case he needs to meet people, build up personal connections (or at least become a known face) to agents, directors, other managers. He needs to be one of the people who'll get a tip off if a move is on, or even if it's a non-starter. As long as it's not at the expense of his time with his current players, it can only be a good thing.
Don't be silly.

Only good managers would do that kind of thing. He was clearly on the razz, and went to the footie, probably got in a fight later and brought his wife home some soggy chips and a kebab.
 
I think we're on the up now.

Moyes is going to take us to a new level of football, judging from the last two league games we're unstoppable now.

Nothing can possibly go wrong.

We're in the clear, we're out of the woods.

It's smooth-sailing from here on.

The storm's finally passed and now we can enjoy ourselves.

Hail the Moyesiah!

Now that^, that is a post you should jump on, and I'd expect you too if you don't see white text. Not "we're noticeably improving in the league".
 
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I think we're on the up now.

Moyes is going to take us to a new level of football, judging from the last two league games we're unstoppable now.

Nothing can possibly go wrong.

We're in the clear, we're out of the woods.

It's smooth-sailing from here on.

The storm's finally passed and now we can enjoy ourselves.

Hail the Moyesiah!

Now that^, that is a post you should jump on, and I'd expect you too if you don't see white text. Not "we're noticeably improving in the league".

OK.

Party on.
:lol:
 
I got what you were saying, I agree that we haven't got a squad that are to the standard of Barca or Bayern, but I disagree that we haven't got the talent to at least go in that direction. Yes we would need to add, most notably in the central midfield, we have Carrick but he needs help, saying that he still has the ability to control that area.
If you look at the talent in our squad instead of focusing on our weaknesses you will see that we have some world class players all over the pitch, players who are capable of playing to that style, keep possession and play that killer pass, we are spoilt with that type of talent.
If any other team had our front four we would be foaming at the mouth with jealously, yet some still think we need a complete overhaul. If you think playing to our strengths is by crossing the ball, most of which don't get passed the first man then you're deluded IMO
We are not playing to our strengths, it's nothing to do with fantasy football, it's about taking the team to the next level. I'm seeing small signs that Moyes may be finally doing that (in the league anyway) our third goal at the weekend was what I'd class as a team goal, he seems to be mixing it up as well which is good to see.

Maybe we aren't that far apart. I don't think its impossible to go in the direction you would like, I just think we need more top players to be successful.

If you think about anytime United lost games in the last few seasons, SAF would revert back to a very defensive formation if he felt the confidence of the team was in jeopardy. The season city won the league, after the Everton 4-4, followed up by the Man city 1-0 defeat was the perfect extreme example of this. He used our ability to get a clean sheet (and knick 1-0s) as the perfect platform to build confidence. Moyes hasn't had that luxury at any stage this season and as such, I think he has been very limited in what he has been able to try.

In terms of his tactics, I don't think it matters what tactics a team plays if it has the players to effectively and efficiently carry them out. We can talk about Everton being a couple of levels below United, but Moyes had them playing extremely effective football and I think if he can build the team up using that as a starting point, he may be able to mould the team into a more fitting outfit as he progresses.
 
Plus he can now get the best seats in the house wherever he goes - got to enjoy that.

In any case he needs to meet people, build up personal connections (or at least become a known face) to agents, directors, other managers. He needs to be one of the people who'll get a tip off if a move is on, or even if it's a non-starter. As long as it's not at the expense of his time with his current players, it can only be a good thing.

Great if it's the Allianz Arena.....unfortunately there are no best seats at Ewood Park just....well....seats.....and the prospect of haemorrhoids :)
 
I find it funny when fans presume he's going to these games just to watch a game of football.

Yeah, you're right mate.
He goes to Bayern and Barcelona games as he's had a tip off that they have handy players...
 
I was responding to a very misguided poster that seems to think we have players capable of playing football like bayern or barca! My point was that until we get players in capable of helping us play like this , it makes sense to play to our strengths which isn't playing fantasy football.

Except that that "misguided" poster didn't think at all, if you wanna argue about something then you better understand what people said in the first place. Posters like you make me laugh all the time, they read one thing and interpret to some ridiculous extremes and then criticize what wasn't even meant.
 
Yeah, you're right mate.
He goes to Bayern and Barcelona games as he's had a tip off that they have handy players...
:lol:
What's the point in watching any player at a top club then. I think scoutings players is overrated anyway, Youtube clips tell you all you need to know.
 
No, he shouldn't be critized, but it's fecking annoying that he spent every weeks touring Europe in the name of Scouting. I have no idea what's in his mind, but if one day he scouts Barca - Bayern, and the next he scouts Blackburn - Burnley (fecking blackburn and burnley) just to scout "OUR PLAYER" who's right under our nose all this time, surely, ffs, surely the coach that has been coaching him since he was a weenie lad knows all there is to know about him and can give him more than adequate input? and don't give me that crap about seeing it first hand and stuff. He's a manager of Manchester United, if he needs to see every U-21 in real match in order to assess them, good lord.

You don't see other Top managers goes on to watch a Championship group matches to "Watch his loaned player"

Seriously, something is wrong in that line alone. And the amount of time he spent scouting around is extremely too often, and reeks of dithering incosistency. He watches italy one day, he watches Bayern / Barca one day, and watches Burnley the next day....


Just what the feck is he trying to scout?

:lol:
 
We can only play who we're put up against.

Two wins and two clean sheets is good, regardless of opponent, yes?

It's good admittedly and always positive to see an improvement, but I'll be sceptical until we can deliver against top quality opposition. We had a spell of 4 wins in the league around Christmas when we were finally beginning to look mildly impressive, but it was generally against lower sides in the league. As soon as we came up against a half decent side (Spurs at New Year) we lost, and things got worse from there. I agree that you can only beat who you're up against, but I can't read all that much into it until we can deliver against a side currently above us in the league, which we've been awful at all so far this season. These next few games are massive though: while I think top 4 is all but out the window, if Moyes can get the side to perform and win then he'll be showing evidence that things are going a bit better and that he warrants another year at the job. That's of course providing he doesn't then mess it all up afterwards in the final few games.
 
Except that that "misguided" poster didn't think at all, if you wanna argue about something then you better understand what people said in the first place. Posters like you make me laugh all the time, they read one thing and interpret to some ridiculous extremes and then criticize what wasn't even meant.

Actually that's exactly what you said, you just qualified your point by saying "but obviously not as good as them". In theory any team can play any tactics, just not as effective depending on personnel and team cohesion.
 
No, he shouldn't be critized, but it's fecking annoying that he spent every weeks touring Europe in the name of Scouting. I have no idea what's in his mind, but if one day he scouts Barca - Bayern, and the next he scouts Blackburn - Burnley (fecking blackburn and burnley) just to scout "OUR PLAYER" who's right under our nose all this time, surely, ffs, surely the coach that has been coaching him since he was a weenie lad knows all there is to know about him and can give him more than adequate input? and don't give me that crap about seeing it first hand and stuff. He's a manager of Manchester United, if he needs to see every U-21 in real match in order to assess them, good lord.

You don't see other Top managers goes on to watch a Championship group matches to "Watch his loaned player"

Seriously, something is wrong in that line alone. And the amount of time he spent scouting around is extremely too often, and reeks of dithering incosistency. He watches italy one day, he watches Bayern / Barca one day, and watches Burnley the next day....


Just what the feck is he trying to scout?

:lol: Thanks for providing some humour. I believe you are jesting? :nervous:
 
Actually that's exactly what you said, you just qualified your point by saying "but obviously not as good as them". In theory any team can play any tactics, just not as effective depending on personnel and team cohesion.

That's what I really meant, we'll never be Barca or Bayern because we're simply not as good as them but some principle of possession of football can be played. Teams with worse players than ours can do it at times, I'm not saying dominate a team with over 70% possession of the ball because that'd be impossible but for instance when we have the lead, try to play the ball more cleverly and try to retain as much as possible by avoiding unnecessary long passes and hoofs.
Barca and Bayern can take possession football to a ridiculous level, we can't get there but we can use some elements of it.
 
It's good admittedly and always positive to see an improvement, but I'll be sceptical until we can deliver against top quality opposition. We had a spell of 4 wins in the league around Christmas when we were finally beginning to look mildly impressive, but it was generally against lower sides in the league. As soon as we came up against a half decent side (Spurs at New Year) we lost, and things got worse from there. I agree that you can only beat who you're up against, but I can't read all that much into it until we can deliver against a side currently above us in the league, which we've been awful at all so far this season. These next few games are massive though: while I think top 4 is all but out the window, if Moyes can get the side to perform and win then he'll be showing evidence that things are going a bit better and that he warrants another year at the job. That's of course providing he doesn't then mess it all up afterwards in the final few games.
Good post mate. The only thing in which we differ is the level of skepticism then. :)
 
That's what I really meant, we'll never be Barca or Bayern because we're simply not as good as them but some principle of possession of football can be played. Teams with worse players than ours can do it at times, I'm not saying dominate a team with over 70% possession of the ball because that'd be impossible but for instance when we have the lead, try to play the ball more cleverly and try to retain as much as possible by avoiding unnecessary long passes and hoofs.
Barca and Bayern can take possession football to a ridiculous level, we can't get there but we can use some elements of it.

I feel that the problem hasn't been as much tactics as it has been players performance and/or confidence. The amount of misplaced passes and errors has nothing to do with the way the team is setup in my opinion. Possession is also about being cool under pressure and comfortable on the ball which our players clearly haven't been and its even harder to dictate games if you are already low in confidence.

Carrick is usually cool under pressure but he was uncharacteristically poor against Olympiacos, you know when his passing goes to sh*t you are in trouble. But even on his best day Carrick is an excellent tidy player, but nothing more, hes not ever going to dictate the tempo of a game or seldom finds an awesome through ball. Short and simple is his mantra.

Then you have Cleverley who is not the most gifted technically, but he gets slaughtered because he passes back and sideways a lot. Ironically its the best way of retaining possession if you have limited technical ability! But what good is that ?
 
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