Did well today. Made the right decisions when he needed to. But this really wasnt going to be the game to define him. Liverpool next week is the big one.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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After 28 games games last season, we had scored 68 and conceded 31.This season we have scored 46 and conceded 31.
I'm not saying that we were free flowing best last season, nor am I saying its all on Moyes. Frankly, I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But to use your argument as a defence is a bit brittle.
The big question now is - who will Moyes start against Liverpool?
It will be the most decisive lineup of his United career so far, and irrespective of whoever starts, it will send out a strong message. Will he really drop RvP? Will he have the balls to start with Kagawa? Or will he go back into his big-game-shell and put out Young/Cleverley/Valencia?
It will be the most decisive lineup of his United career so far, and irrespective of whoever starts, it will send out a strong message. Will he really drop RvP? Will he have the balls to start with Kagawa? Or will he go back into his big-game-shell and put out Young/Cleverley/Valencia?
Yeah, because if Moyes can't do it, neither can Pep.
And seems like you you are saying that this squad can't do much better with almost every other managers in the world (not even Wenger, Klopp, and Simeone). The reason is: just because Moyes can't. So you are almost sure that this squad is indeed worthy that 6-7th place.
Was pleased for him yesterday. Had players putting their bodies on the line for the cause for the first time in a while. Made a difference.
Mental. It's as bad as FYC and the doom mongers.
A couple of things from yesterday's game: that front 6 lacks pace; still a lot of crosses coming in - maybe it is ingrained in the players.
I don't think anyone needs reminding of how badly this season has gone.
My issue is with the idea that the current squad could get similar success to last season while playing exciting attacking football. Last season we cut our cloth to fit. The football was mainly functional because it had to be.
If/when we get our central midfield sorted and can play a defence that combined pace and reliability then we might start to get results with a bit of style. It might not need major investment as young players can train on and fill one or two gaps (although that can't be taken for granted) and if Fellaini keeps playing like he did yesterday our midfield will be stronger than it has been in years (but still lacking something)
Our squad is clearly still a work in progress. Which was the point I was (slightly sarcastically!) making.
I think there are multitude of factors here at play which need not overlap.
I don't disagree with the fact that we could do with some high quality players in midfield and wings. I also don't disagree that it may be just a matter of waiting until the younger players mature.
But is this current squad capable of playing better football and collecting more points? That should be a resounding yes. I guess using last season as a benchmark may be a tad misleading. But I'm sure if you gave any manager this team, you'd expect a top 4 finish with many more goals.
Finally, I also think there is an irrational hatred of Moyes developing because of our style of play. I guess most people realised that our style of football was not evolving under Fergie in the last few seasons and saw that change as the only possible upside to his retirement. I did! I would be completely okay with a 6th placed finish if we showed signs of progress in terms of quality of football.
As long as neither Young nor Valencia start it will be a good lineup. But that's not very likely.
I agree with everything you said there.
I really hope not, Fellaini is starting to show a bit of promise and we need to start playing Januzaj in the big games. I fear Valencia might get back into the team, for his 'defensive abilities'.I think he will start Young and Cleverly again.
There are also rumours that Cleverly is close to signing a 5 year contract which would suggest that he's in Moyes plans long term, I just think he needs a few weeks out at the moment, bringing him back for the Liverpool game could turn into a disaster. Moyes should stick with the same team he played yesterday for the Liverpool game.
This is my fear too. But i am hoping the starting line up against Olympiakos was just his nativity in the UCL. In the league we have started the same midfield and attack for the last two games and it definitely looks better than that rigid 442. Hopefully he learns from it and realises this is his best formation and kicks on from there.I think he will start Young and Cleverly again.
Or he remains stubborn and keeps with Young and Valencia because he thinks thats the only way to score goals. Even yesterday we were pretty cross heavy and only changed it when Welbeck came on.
Rest Young & co against CP and plays them in CL
Rest them against WB and plays them against Pool?
Tell me how this squad could play to peps style of football? Dominating teams, dominating possession and owning them. You tell me how he gets this united squad to show a technical ability to outplay teams in a way we have never seen them do!!
United don't have the football personel to play football to compliment peps managerial style.
Let me guess, Moyes, Round and big Ed as the three wise men. Adnan as Baby Jesus. Fellaini's head as one of the sheep, Rooney as the donkey. RVP as Herod.
It doesn't have a happy ending, by the way.
And yet it was more or less the best front 6 we could put out. Adding Kagawa in there to replace someone would have probably made his lack ever more pace.
Adding Valencia or Young would have received more complaints
Not slating you, but it just seems that Moyes can never completely satisfy some people.
Well they definitely could set up to dominate possession in a much better way than we have. Typically in recent seasons we've set up in a way that gives the opposition a chance to come on to us with the plan that we can defend against them and then hit them on the counter. Largely its been a fine strategy but as the wing play and midfield has weakened we've lost our ability to do it as we're not defending well enough and can't exploit counters well enough.
But we could certainly play more narrowly. Take yesterdays team, drop Rooney a bit deeper and you've got imo a team that could easily dominate possession and deal with pressure much better. We don't deal with pressure that well normally because the space between players is bigger than it is in a more possession focused team imo.
If we went that style we'd lack options but really its only Valencia, Young, Hernandez in attack and probably Smalling, who would struggle in such a system (though less so), and tbf Young would probably be alright in it. No reason any of the others couldn't do it if they were set up to do it.
While I agree that our squad isn't as good as Bayerns, your post is bollocks. Lesser teams have changed their style of play to a possession type style, Everton, Southamton, Swansea to name but a few in the Premier League.
We have players like Kagawa, Mata, Rooney, Fellaini, Carrick, Evans, RVP, Januzaj all of which can pass, keep possession, and link up play.
It would take time to change our style, but to say we don't have a squad who have the technical ability to outplay teams is wrong.
It's not black and white, if you can't emulate the greatest possession teams in the world then it's not worth it. This is a very narrow minded way of seeing things. With our players there is a big room for improvement in terms of possession and general football without reaching the heights of Barca and Bayern.
Swansea does it (possession game style) and there isn't a single player in their team that I would want in ours. It's nice to aim for the best but if you can't get to their level it doesn't mean you can't play with their tactics.
It's not narrow minded view, it's just practical.
I think it's more than narrow minded tbh, it's extremely stupid. I'm not saying we should play like Bayern and nothing else, I'm just against the "if you can't play like them, don't even bother to attempt the same tactics" logic. Improving on the possession can only be beneficial for us
Improving on possession doesn't count for shit if you don't have the technical playes capable of unlocking defences and taking advantage of this possession. Also what midfield players do we have that are so good at retaining possession and who in defence is a good technical passer?
It makes complete sense playing a system that compliments the players until you can get the personnel in to play your style. Jose has made his living doing this.
Are you serious, we don't have the players to unlock defences?
We also had RvP fit all season, the guy who carried us. We were nothing more than effective last season, Fergie knew how poor it was so brought in RvP so it didn't matter.
How people continue to not recognize how much RvP carries us and how much we've missed him is ridiculous.
Its not a leaping defence of Moyes, its just obvious our liabilities were inherited and haven't been fixed.
It counts for something when you think about all the points we lost in the last 10-15 mins this season in the league.Think of the bloody Fulham game and how we stupidly lost two pts.
Besides we have players who have shown they're more than capable of unlocking teams, even Carrick on a good day can do it with his passing between the lines.
Your mindset is ridiculous, just because we aren't probably reach Bayern's football it's not worth to try to implement certain aspects of possession football ? I don't buy this.
You're right, everyone here has English as their first language...
Yesterday was a good step forward. We play better and more attractive football with Valencia and Young out of hrs starting line up. I hope Moyes just sticks to the more technical players we have now until the end of the season and overhauls our central midfield big time next season.
Oh come off it. I'm not taking the piss out of you. We're still allowed a sense of humour, are we not? I had no idea English wasn't your first language.
I probably should see the funny side of it, its just a touchy subject to me... Especially when i see other posters use of grammar!
Matchday predictions. 1/both of Valencia/Young to start for their tracking back. Which means we lose 1 flank attacking wise. Valencia will be at rightback when the match ends. Smalling to start at rightback for extra solidity. Cleverley to start but will barely be noticed by anyone including Henderson, Gerard and Coutinho. Rooney to huff and puff all over the pitch whilst accomplishing nothing and end the match in midfield when Cleverley is fianlly hauled off. Mata will see very little of the ball. Sulking RVP will miss a sitter aka our only decent chance. Kagawa won't make the matchday squad. Giggs will be on the bench for experience aka moving from the wall to allow in a Gerard freekick and giving the ball away in dangerous areas by trying outrageous flicks. Januzaj will be on the bench and come on when it's too late. Welbeck will comeon and leave Chicharito in tears. Phil Neville will look busy holding charts and pointing at things. Gary Neville will defend the United way and Moyes like his life depended on it. Carragher will be grinning. Jaime Redknapp will say something obvious "a loss at home is bad for United. Roy Keane will question the side's character. Fergie will have a serious expression throughout the match. Moyes will say we were unlucky and we played well. Suarez will annoy everyone with his presence. Sturridge will do the stupid dance. The Caf will explode for the final time never to be seen again.
Good stuff. Outrageously possible. All of it.Changed for accuracy.
Did you win a prize? Feel divine?
Optimism could be your friend, just try.
If all that happens, I'll bet he won't last the summer. I'll actually bet on it. You don't get away with all that shit against Liverpool at OT, even if you're Mourinho. The away support will bundle over, every United legend will turn against Moyes, and we might hear tales of a a duel between SAF and SBR. If the loss agains tLiverpool or City is anything like the Fulham/Olympiakos game, we'll have a new manager making the big signings.
I actually very much expect the same lineup against Liverpool, providing every one is fit.
My big doubt though is not really about Moyes's ability to pick the right 11, it's about utilizing them to the full.
My big doubt though is not really about Moyes's ability to pick the right 11, it's about utilizing them to the full.
Changed for accuracy.
The first time you read it, you'd think Gary was playing.
At the Blackburn game apparently.
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