Moyes So Far!

[amolbhatia50k]

For me, all I would ever expect from supporters is to be fair to him. He inherited the champions and now we are seventh. There is no disputing that it has been a horrible season.

Is David Moyes an absolute catastrophe of a manager who is so bad that he will single-handedly ruin a really good team in one season? No, of course he isn't, or he would have never gotten anywhere near the job. I think there are so many different factors that have led to this season that it's hugely unfair to blame it all on one person.

I don't think anyone thinks he's a terrible manager. A terrible manager doesn't achieve what he did at Everton. He's obviously good. But I think handling someone not good enough for a giant club coupled with the guy he's following being the guy following, can lead to such a fall. Of course there's never one single factor in any such situation. It's always different forces. I just think he's the single biggest and major force and that's fair I think given the manager is the captain of the ship and the captain of the ship is the major aspect that has changed.

But I do want to emphasize that anyone who thinks he's a rubbish manager is being very ignorant.

 

[Bilbo]

Id say that would be the case for Moyes, yes. I never felt like there was anything so formal with SAF (under the Glazers). He just went to Glazer (via Gill) and said "I want this player" and then Gill went and tried to make it happen. For all the talk of having x to spend per season, we never seemed to adhere to it, we could be under for several years, and over one year... I think SAF policed himself quite well in that regard which probably came from experience.

Personally I believe that Ferguson and even possibly Gill are still used as consultants in that respect. The Glazers are not football experts, but they are certainly financial experts. No way they will sign off a £37m transfer without due dilligence.

 

[Getsme]

That is true. One horrific season is bad, but it's not that huge a deal in the grand scheme of things. But him spending big and it still not working out could potentially be very dangerous.

The board have surely got to take all of this into account though. We're not Chelsea or City who can get away with throwing money around, saddling ourselves with enormous wages and still struggling. I think if Moyes stays we might just see the higher ups playing a part in approving his bigger signings.

If he's given the money he's here to stay.
The problem is the club have talked up their spending power all summer, so they have a big choice to make, keep Moyes and give him the money he needs, keep Moyes and limit his funds which in return will piss of the fans or get in an experienced manager and give him the funds.
It's hard enough to recover from one bad season, but two with little to no money left is a hell of a lot harder.

 

[Bilbo]

I don't think anyone thinks he's a terrible manager. A terrible manager doesn't achieve what he did at Everton. He's obviously good. But I think handling someone not good enough for a giant club coupled with the guy he's following being the guy following, can lead to such a fall. Of course there's never one single factor in any such situation. It's always different forces. I just think he's the single biggest and major force and that's fair I think given the manager is the captain of the ship and the captain of the ship is the major aspect that has changed.

But I do want to emphasize that anyone who thinks he's a rubbish manager is being very ignorant.

It depends on the trust the club have in the manager. If he has their full backing and he tells them things aren't working because of x,y & z, then they will let him change those things. If not, then as you say the captain of the ship will always be the first to go.

 

[Drummer]

I agree he wont go this season, but there are a couple of potential triggers.

1) Our official defenestration from the CL. We are still technically in it, so there is one more thing left for Moyes to play for, after which - maybe - they could call time.
2) Lining up a replacement. Maybe they dont want to fire him until they know what comes next and are working on that? Probably clutching at straws here, usually it isnt an issue, they sack the manager and say a new one will be announced in due course. Still, maybe that's not "The United Way" TM.

With our without SAF, did anybody think this squad of players was anywhere near the capability of Barca, Madrid or Bayern? We need practically an entire defence (unless we want to rely on the fitness of Jones/evans/smalling/Rafael) and some would argue an entire CM. The one CM moyes bought has been injured for the last 3 months, yet people are judging him a failure based on the first month he joined the club and was fit!

I don't think they have any intention of replacing Moyes before next year. Even if they lose to olympiakos, Liverpool and City.

There are clear indications that there are problems within the squad and if the club deems them problems that Moyes can fix once he gets the opportunity to offload and purchase players, it wont really matter how poor the team plays for the rest of the season.

We have at least 2-4 players (Rio, vidic, Evra, RVP), who would be considered at least bench players, more starters. How in gods name does any manager get the most out of players already planning what they will be doing when they leave? And these aren't just youngsters like Anderson (who will also move), they are senior players with big voices in the dressingroom who SAF would of relied on to help younger players progress.

Then you have to ask who DM has in the dressingroom to help support him? Well I think its fair to say that Rooney, Mata, januzai, fletcher and Fellani are definites.

Then you look at Tom Cleverley, who in all fairness DM has given opportunities to, and the absolutely deplorable actions of certain fans sending that message to Hodgson. What manager could pick up cleverly after such horrible stuff? His confidence must be on the floor.

Then there is the old reliable problems of Young and Nani (whats happened to him , is he injured?). inconsistent and completely unreliable, but when you have a solid defence, keeping clean sheets, its easier to have players like this who may be hit and miss.

One of the bigges problems of United this season has been their defence. At times in the past when United were dropping points or conceding stupid goals, effecting moral, SAF would default to a more defencive lineup to build confidence from the defence up. If you don't concede you cant lose, if you have a forward line like ours, you are always in with a chance..

I didn't even mention the transfer summer last year that was most certainly not his fault!

I'm not excusing Moyes or absolving him of responsibility, but there have been as many variables outside of his control as there have been within his control, preventing him from getting a good shot at showing us what he is capable of.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Re: The letter.

I wouldn't say that is deserving of criticism or high praise, most of the text we've heard before in utterances from the manager already.

Worst case scenario - Moyes spends £150m and we don't get any better. Then he has to go, and the new manager has an awful lot of talent to remould. Even the worst of the doom-mongers on here has to accept that Moyes is only going after top quality.

So any successor would be financially hamstrung nad more limited in his capacity to move players on than Moyes at present?

The only players that there's any certainty about replacements being needed are the first three you mention. All three of them would have needed to be replaced regardless (unless, perhaps, Vidic didn't decide to piss off half way through the season)

You forgot Anderson, by the way. A player that should have been replaced fecking years ago.

With recent history as a guide, why should either Kagawa or Hernandez feel it to be in their best interests to remain at the club? Or are you perhaps suggesting that we needn't replace them in any event, at least not in the short term?

And unless a big money offer was on the cards i think it is possible that Evra could be convinced to stay for a little longer yet.

A so for RVP...well i suspect that the case is somewhat similar to last summer with Wayne, the player not being averse to a move and the club having very particular ideas as to what constitutes and acceptable suitor.

 

[yanuzay]

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Van Gaal is divisive and his spells at Bayern and Barca both ended in tears. If the Board were up for such a manager they'd have gone for Mourinho in the first place.

Wouldn't be my first choice for a long term manager. But he would have us playing good football. Perhaps that's enough right now.

I'd say that if they lose faith in Moyes, it's far worse to let him continue than hire someone who would provide quality for a short term. If they lose faith of course. I think it's dangerous to keep Moyes around because you need a a guy who still for as decade. If he stays I don't think that will be the reason though. It will be because the higher ups believe in him.

 

[jojojo]

I am not saying he needs to get rid of all players , just the ones who are not responding to his management like rio and perhaps Rvp. That's showing faith in him and giving him the opportunity to work with people who want to work with him.

If it was the odd player or two who were not responding, I wouldn't be concerned. They just have to go. The problem I have is that we have maybe one or two players playing as well as they did last year, an 18 year old having a breakthrough year, and 20 odd squad members playing worse.

This does not guarantee success, but I believe SAF will be a better judge of if or when moyes project is not working out. Incidentally I think many united fans are shocked at the state of the team and just panicking! The last people I would follow in any situation is somebody losing their head in rough times!

I don't see how I can simultaneously trust SAF's judgment absolutely on Moyes and then say that the squad he left, the transfer targets he set up and the coaching team he worked with were not good enough. Sounds like I have to ignore years worth of decisions to have faith in that last one.

SAF's words of trust, right now are the only thing I see in Moyes favour - he knows Moyes and the challenge of his work done at Everton better than I do. When he came in, though he wasn't a manager I would have chosen, I saw no harm in him getting a couple of years to feel his way into the job.

9 months on, I see a lot of harm in that scenario. If nothing improves before the end of the season (on the field), we're left with the idea of giving him another year on the off chance that with 6-10 new players he can find 11 players who can play as a team and will work for him. Several of them will be here just because we paid the biggest wages, the sort we used to deride as "mercenaries" - but because they've got no loyalty to SAF, I'm supposed to imagine that they will be inspired by Moyes. I don't buy it.

Anyway the great thing about football is there's always another game. Let's see if there's any good news this weekend.

 

[FineYoungCasual]

I myself will have run out of excuses for him, and I imagine that most other supporters that currently sit on the fence will do so as well.

Nah, in that scenario I can imagine hearing that he needs time to rebuild the entire stadium, brick by brick, before he can be properly judged.

If that doesn't work, 'sensible pundits' will insist that Moyes must be given the funds to atomically dematerialise the entire squad and then rebuild them molecule by molecule to his own specifications.

If this still doesn't provide Moyes with the exact right circumstances for his highly complex footballing vision to come to fruition, I can see Fergie assembling a doomsday device - 'sensible pundits' will frantically assure us that the world simply hasn't been pulling it's weight and that a 'massive, global clear-out' is needed in order for Moyes to have a fair go at it. 'True fans' like Drummer and Pogue will righteously agree that though they love their families, and have enjoyed life on Earth, this is simply the only realistic way forward at this point.

Moyes will be bundled into an underground bunker for his own protection, and all other life on the planet will be eradicated.

Moyes will emerge from his bunker, just as Fergie has instructed, with a football, two sets of goal posts and a homemade banner that reads "Barclay's Premier League" on it. He will mount the banner and the goal posts in the hard, dry, dead Earth and proceed to play a single match, against no-one, for the title of 'Premier League Champion of the Universe' - first goal wins.

He stoically plods up field, ball at his feet. Fast, nervous breaths as he approaches the empty opposition goal. He aims a lofted ball into the open net but just as the ball is about to cross the line, a rogue gust of post-apocalypse wind picks the ball up and blows it in the opposite direction...

Straight down the makeshift pitch it blows and straight into Moyes' own net.

Game over.

Moyes sighs and stumbles off into the empty, desolate wasteland - muttering to himself about how 'all he can do is try and win the next one'.

 

[Danny1982]

If it was the odd player or two who were not responding, I wouldn't be concerned. They just have to go. The problem I have is that we have maybe one or two players playing as well as they did last year, an 18 year old having a breakthrough year, and 20 odd squad members playing worse.



I don't see how I can simultaneously trust SAF's judgment absolutely on Moyes and then say that the squad he left, the transfer targets he set up and the coaching team he worked with were not good enough. Sounds like I have to ignore years worth of decisions to have faith in that last one.

SAF's words of trust, right now are the only thing I see in Moyes favour - he knows Moyes and the challenge of his work done at Everton better than I do. When he came in, though he wasn't a manager I would have chosen, I saw no harm in him getting a couple of years to feel his way into the job.

9 months on, I see a lot of harm in that scenario. If nothing improves before the end of the season (on the field), then the idea of giving him another year on the off chance that with 6-10 new players he can find 11 players who can play as a team and will work for him. Several of them will be here just because we paid the biggest wages, the sort we used to deride as "mercenaries" - but because they've got no loyalty to SAF, I'm supposed to imagine that they will be inspired by Moyes. I don't buy it.

Anyway the great thing about football is there's always another game. Let's see if there's any good news this weekend.

I was going to point out this exact point. Well done jojojo. Absolutely spot on.

 

[Mauzindark]

Nah, in that scenario I can imagine hearing that he needs time to rebuild the entire stadium, brick by brick, before he can be properly judged.

If that doesn't work, 'sensible pundits' will insist that Moyes must be given the funds to atomically dematerialise the entire squad and then rebuild them molecule by molecule to his own specifications.

If this still doesn't provide Moyes with the exact right circumstances for his highly complex footballing vision to come to fruition, I can see Fergie assembling a doomsday device - 'sensible pundits' will frantically assure us that the world simply hasn't been pulling it's weight and that a 'massive, global clear-out' is needed in order for Moyes to have a fair go at it. 'True fans' like Drummer and Pogue will righteously agree that though they love their families, and have enjoyed life on Earth, this is simply the only realistic way forward at this point.

Moyes will be bundled into an underground bunker for his own protection, and all other life on the planet will be eradicated.

Moyes will emerge from his bunker, just as Fergie has instructed, with a football, two sets of goal posts and a homemade banner that reads "Barclay's Premier League" on it. He will mount the banner and the goal posts in the hard, dry, dead Earth and proceed to play a single match, against no-one, for the title of 'Premier League Champion of the Universe' - first goal wins.

He stoically plods up field, ball at his feet. Fast, nervous breaths as he approaches the empty opposition goal. He aims a lofted ball into the open net but just as the ball is about to cross the line, a rogue gust of post-apocalypse wind picks the ball up and blows it in the opposite direction...

Straight down the makeshift pitch it blows and straight into Moyes' own net.

Game over.

Moyes sighs and stumbles off into the empty, desolate wasteland - muttering to himself about how 'all he can do is try and win the next one'.

Brilliant.

 

[bosnian_red]

We could get 7 in one go and be okay but not seven first teamers. That just sounds way too many to not cause disruption. 7 with 3 or 4 young low risk talents is still okay. I have faith in our core, we need some key high quality players in important positions IMO, and well be in a cracking position. Then again, I think were already quality wise in a very good position so there's that.

IMO all we need us 3 first teamers, and that's because we'll be forced with certain positions. The midfield needs 2 new players undoubtedly, and then the left back position to replace evra. You could say we need an experienced defender to replace rio and Vidic, and we do, he'd probably be first choice too, but it isn't vital. Our defenders as a whole would play a lot better with some consistency in their selections and a better midfield.

 

[::sonny::]

His signature is defensive as well, and don't need to be a graphologist to understand this.

 

[BennyBlanco]

IMO all we need us 3 first teamers, and that's because we'll be forced with certain positions. The midfield needs 2 new players undoubtedly, and then the left back position to replace evra. You could say we need an experienced defender to replace rio and Vidic, and we do, he'd probably be first choice too, but it isn't vital. Our defenders as a whole would play a lot better with some consistency in their selections and a better midfield.

We could probably get away with just 1 midfield pruchase, if.. if... Fellaini actually shows half the talent of a 27million pound signing over the remaining games and we promote Powell into the first team squad after his loan, so long as the one midfield purchase is an absolute difference maker, in a Gundogan/Kroos/Pogba mould, then yea, it's the fullbacks and a experienced CB.

The thing is, is the core of our current squad actually going to step up and play for Moyes? thats a realistic question you have to ask after a performance like the Olympiacos game... if not.. we need to replace most of the team. (or manager)

 

[Getsme]

IMO all we need us 3 first teamers, and that's because we'll be forced with certain positions. The midfield needs 2 new players undoubtedly, and then the left back position to replace evra. You could say we need an experienced defender to replace rio and Vidic, and we do, he'd probably be first choice too, but it isn't vital. Our defenders as a whole would play a lot better with some consistency in their selections and a better midfield.

I'd go along with that, I'd also maybe add a couple of fringe players to the squad, young players with bags of potential.
As for the defence, consistency is key, the only defensive player that has been consistent this season is the one that's more than likely leaving.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Our defenders as a whole would play a lot better with some consistency in their selections and a better midfield.

Absolutely, Smalling should have been started at CB against Olympiakos even if that meant pursuing a more risky option at right back IMO.

 

[Empire]

Next Season

First choice / Second choice

The below players are not what I want or think we should do but what I think Moyes will do:

GK: De Gea / Lindergaard

LB: New / Evra (Possibly new but Evra might stay on as second choice, I think it would be wise).
CB: Jones / Evans
CB: New / Smalling
RB: New / Rafael

LM: New / Januzaj
CM: Fellaini / Cleverley
CM: New / Carrick / Fletcher
RM: New / Zaha

CAM: Mata / Powell
ST: Rooney / Welbeck

I think RVP will leave with Moyes wanting to keep him on but realising it isn't worth the hassle, Hernandez and Kagawa will leave to get first team football and Nani will also leave. Young and Valencia obviously need to go too.

So we need 6 new first team players, that isn't easy but it is possible. It also won't affect our chemistry all that much since the players will be rotated with those that are second choice if they do have difficulty settling in.

If Moyes pulls this off with players suited to his system then we have a good team.

RVP + Chicharito + Kagawa + Nani = bargaining chips if Moyes is smart.

Player and money for another play isn't as common as you would think but with those four it does become very interesting. Actually both Nani and Chicharito or even better, RVP would be of value to Juve since Conte wants to move towards 442.

Of course, it depends on the player actually wanting to move to that club!

Whether Moyes can play the smart game I do not know however.

 

[Adebesi]

I just dont see that many first team players coming in all at once. What is that, six? And all as first teamers, none as youngsters with potential or backups? It just isnt going to happen.

 

[Adebesi]

Interesting the only one of our back four you see surviving as a first choice is the one player who seems to find it hardest to get a game in defense this year. Surely Smalling or Evans are ahead of Jones for CB positions at the moment?

 

[Smores]

It may just be me but if you'd have told me at the end of last season that Carrick, Nani, RvP and Rafael were going to have the trouble they have done whilst other teams improve and essentially no new signings then I wouldn't have been confident of top 4.

The lack of summer transfers is on Moyes but I'm not that surprised at the results given the circumstances.

If RvP stayed fit all season we'd be in the top 4 and I reckon the talk of big signings would have a positive fan base.

 

[Empire]

I just dont see that many first team players coming in all at once. What is that, six? And all as first teamers, none as youngsters with potential or backups? It just isnt going to happen.

I'm not sure how many youngsters we need since actually we have quite a number of young players with potential already.

De Gea

Buttner
Smalling
Jones
Rafael

Januzaj
Cleverley
Fellaini
Zaha

Hernandez
Welbeck

average age = 23 years and then we have Mata who is 25 too!

Now some of those might not have the potential to become quality however my point shows the younger players in our first team squad nevermind those coming through the youth system.

Therefore I think it would be wise to concentrate on purchasing first team players this summer as it is more important.

You are right however, we might not buy 6 but with only 3 first team players joining Moyes might just struggle again next season if those I mentioned leave. I do think he can't go another season without champions league football therefore he must do what he feels to be most important.

Ideally he would convince Kagawa to stay so he can be put behind Rooney and let Mata drift in from RM therefore reducing the need for a RM.

Get the most out of Rafael and promote Varela or somebody.

That leaves four first team players, that is more realistic but I won't blame Kagawa if he wants to leave.

 

[Adebesi]

The good news (if what's in my head counts as news) is that I dont see RVP leaving, even if he wants to leave we wont let him precisely because there is way too much change happening elsewhere, we need to keep as many things constant as we can, there is enough change being forced on us by age or lack of quality, but where we have quality players under contract, forget about it, those players are staying.

Maybe we'll lose Kagawa because I dont think Moyes rates him. Maybe we'll lose Chicharito as he doesnt seem to be in his plans at all either. Certainly we'll lose Vidic, Rio, Evra, Giggs. You could call that five we'll lose, I reckon that will be replaced by three, CB and LB, another CM, all first team quality. And then maybe backups for RB (I dont know if we have anything promotable coming through the youth in that position?) and a 4th striker if we let Chicharito go.

I dont see us letting Valencia or Young go though if it was up to me I would let one of them go, whichever one was easier to shift and recouped us more. I dont know what is going on with Nani, hopefully he is just ridiculously unlucky with injuries and Moyes rates him. If there is an element of Moyes not trusting him as well maybe we'll let him go (in which case I expect we'd hold onto the other two to keep our options open but Id rather let one of the others go and keep Nani.)

 

[Empire]

Interesting the only one of our back four you see surviving as a first choice is the one player who seems to find it hardest to get a game in defense this year. Surely Smalling or Evans are ahead of Jones for CB positions at the moment?

Jones has had an injury hit season but when fit he has been used in central midfield mostly due to his performances relative to other central midfielders. He also is younger than Smalling and Evans, I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes played him less at the start of the season due to that reason. Only as the season progressed would Moyes have been able to evaluate Smalling and Evans.

I honestly think Moyes does not rate either Smalling or Evans as being first choice, as for Jones I'm not sure but with how he has deployed him in the big games then I would imagine he likes Jones.

EDIT - At the moment in defence Evans and Smalling probably are ahead but considering Jones is 22, moving forward Moyes probably thinks Jones will develop into a much player than either of those two could. This would only occur with game time therefore I would imagine he would make him first choice.

 

[Adebesi]

I'm not sure how many youngsters we need since actually we have quite a number of young players with potential already.

De Gea

Buttner
Smalling
Jones
Rafael

Januzaj
Cleverley
Fellaini
Zaha

Hernandez
Welbeck

average age = 23 years and then we have Mata who is 25 too!

Now some of those might not have the potential to become quality however my point shows the younger players in our first team squad nevermind those coming through the youth system.

Therefore I think it would be wise to concentrate on purchasing first team players this summer as it is more important.

You are right however, we might not buy 6 but with only 3 first team players joining Moyes might just struggle again next season if those I mentioned leave. I do think he can't go another season without champions league football therefore he must do what he feels to be most important.

Ideally he would convince Kagawa to stay so he can be put behind Rooney and let Mata drift in from RM therefore reducing the need for a RM.

Get the most out of Rafael and promote Varela or somebody.

That leaves four first team players, that is more realistic but I won't blame Kagawa if he wants to leave.

I liek this post. It reminds me of all my confidence and optimism last year, when I used to argue with friends who support other clubs about what great shape we are in, how our squad is deceptively young and good.

I take all your points. Its a rock and a hard place, isnt it? Too few, we lack quality. Too many, they dont gel properly. Neither way presents a clear way back to CL football, its a risk either way.

I still think we have ample quality up front, if Moyes can just get the best out of them. I dont know what to say about Kagawa though, your comment above presupposes Moyes wants Kagawa to stay, I dont think he does but I hope I am wrong about that.

 

[Adebesi]

I dont think we'd struggle as much next year with 3 first team additions, as long as they are the right ones.

A quality LB - well, Im a big Evra fan so that wouldnt make too much difference for me, but hopefully an improvement of sorts.
A quality CB - Vidic hasnt been his old self this year and you are right that Moyes hasnt appeared to trust Smalling and Evans. Nevertheless I think they are quality, alongside Jones as well, that would be healthy competition, if we get a settled back four and lose the potentially disruptive influences of Rio and Vidic (ancien regime), I think that'll help.
A quality CM - hopefully this will be where most of the money goes, if we can find our Toure / Essien (of old) quality player, I dont think I need to elaborate on the impact this will have.

Keep RVP, Rooney, Mata, Januzaj (a year older), supported by the others we have in the squad.... that to me is the makings of a quality team. Easily top 4.

What are we all worried about? In Moyes we trust.

 

[gasmanc]

Sorry but that's a ludicrous suggestion. Absolutely barmy.

I'm not even backing him particularly enthusiastically. I happen to spend most of my time on here getting worked up about unfair or badly thought through criticism (because this place is infested with it) yet almost no time pointing out why he's the right man for the job or talking up our long term prospects under him. My own stance has always been to reserve judgement, good or bad, until I think he's had a fair crack of the whip. He hasn't reached that point yet but, so far, there's been almost nothing positive to note.I do believe that it's still possible for him to turn things round but the prospect of this happening is a lot more remote now than it was a few months back. It's definitely not impossible though.

Anyway, if being proved right was all that mattered to me I'd back a better horse than David fecking Moyes!

Your stance actually sounds fairly similar to my own, perhaps I've misread or it's looked like in your posts you have been firmly Moyes in.
There's me been calling you pogue moyeshone behind your back too.

 

[Empire]

I liek this post. It reminds me of all my confidence and optimism last year, when I used to argue with friends who support other clubs about what great shape we are in, how our squad is deceptively young and good.

I take all your points. Its a rock and a hard place, isnt it? Too few, we lack quality. Too many, they dont gel properly. Neither way presents a clear way back to CL football, its a risk either way.

I still think we have ample quality up front, if Moyes can just get the best out of them. I dont know what to say about Kagawa though, your comment above presupposes Moyes wants Kagawa to stay, I dont think he does but I hope I am wrong about that.

I don't know his view on Kagawa either but if I were in his position then I also would consider leaving Kagawa on the bench due to his ineffectiveness in a static team. We know from Everton, Moyes likes movement, Mirallas and Pienaar drifted drawing full backs away from their positions so Baines and Coleman could ferociously fly down the flanks into space.

If the vision is a team that moves off the ball then I can see Kagawa being a temporary part of his plans assuming buying 6 new players is too problematic however it would only work if we played him centrally as he has struggled too much out wide. Mata can perform out wide therefore if I were Moyes I would do the following on the basis buying 6 first team players isn't realistic:

Get rid of RVP and use him in a player exchange for a world class player where we need it. (Long term it might benefit us, especially if we want to rely on team performance and not individual brilliance but RVP is one of the very best in the world, but this is what makes him attractive in a player exchange.)

Put Kagawa behind Rooney and Mata out wide, try to sign an Eden Hazard style player. So basically a modern winger if you will, a LAM.

Mata - - Kagawa - - (natural LAM)

- - - - - - Rooney - - - - - - - - - -

Then the following season sell Kagawa and sign a natural RAM putting Mata behind Rooney.

Simply put Mata is best as a CAM and he is better than Kagawa therefore it makes sense to sign natural wide players or those with the skill set most suited to that role. I don't have a problem with 6 new first team players this season but if it will prove problematic then keep Kagawa and use him.

As for RVP, surely he could be vital in securing the services of a world class CM. Too bad Lewandowski is off to Bayern otherwise Guardiola may have been interested in RVP for Kroos. Conte might consider him for Vidal but I doubt Vidal wants to leave and also we would probably have to offer RVP + 30m. I would even settle for RVP and Pogba exchange.

Conte wants to move to 442 therefore this would be attractive, especially if we throw in nani and even Hernandez but we must ensure the deal is fair to both teams therefore it might be so they give us some money in that scenario.

RVP has probably two years at the top and then another 2 or 3 as a substitute. He doesn't rely on his physical ability and also he hasn't played as much football in his career as your average 30 year old (31 in august).

 

[Adebesi]

I don't know his view on Kagawa either but if I were in his position then I also would consider leaving Kagawa on the bench due to his ineffectiveness in a static team. We know from Everton, Moyes likes movement, Mirallas and Pienaar drifted drawing full backs away from their positions so Baines and Coleman could ferociously fly down the flanks into space.

If the vision is a team that moves off the ball then I can see Kagawa being a temporary part of his plans assuming buying 6 new players is too problematic however it would only work if we played him centrally as he has struggled too much out wide. Mata can perform out wide therefore if I were Moyes I would do the following on the basis buying 6 first team players isn't realistic:

Get rid of RVP and use him in a player exchange for a world class player where we need it. (Long term it might benefit us, especially if we want to rely on team performance and not individual brilliance but RVP is one of the very best in the world, but this is what makes him attractive in a player exchange.)

Put Kagawa behind Rooney and Mata out wide, try to sign an Eden Hazard style player. So basically a modern winger if you will, a LAM.

Mata - - Kagawa - - (natural LAM)

- - - - - - Rooney - - - - - - - - - -

Then the following season sell Kagawa and sign a natural RAM putting Mata behind Rooney.

Simply put Mata is best as a CAM and he is better than Kagawa therefore it makes sense to sign natural wide players or those with the skill set most suited to that role. I don't have a problem with 6 new first team players this season but if it will prove problematic then keep Kagawa and use him.

As for RVP, surely he could be vital in securing the services of a world class CM. Too bad Lewandowski is off to Bayern otherwise Guardiola may have been interested in RVP for Kroos. Conte might consider him for Vidal but I doubt Vidal wants to leave and also we would probably have to offer RVP + 30m.

Yes, I could imagine us letting RVP go if it was a way of securing the right "world class" (whatever that means, we need it) midfielder. My reservation about this is that player exchanges are something of a myth, they get spoken about a lot but rarely happen. But if it was an option in this case and we couldnt get the player another way then I would be up for it. Then we have Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj all perfectly placed to play behind Rooney. Nani too. We'd definitely need to sign another player up front if we let RVP go. But yes, your plan above gets the much sought-after Adebesi seal of approval.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, I could imagine us letting RVP go if it was a way of securing the right "world class" (whatever that means, we need it) midfielder. My reservation about this is that player exchanges are something of a myth, they get spoken about a lot but rarely happen. But if it was an option in this case and we couldnt get the player another way then I would be up for it. Then we have Mata, Kagawa and Januzaj all perfectly placed to play behind Rooney. Nani too. We'd definitely need to sign another player up front if we let RVP go. But yes, your plan above gets the much sought-after Adebesi seal of approval.

Nick Powell might be in the mix too. He's been going great guns at Wigan (although no news for a few weeks now, anyone know if he's injured?)

If nothing else, he can bring with him some valuable Europa League experience

 

[Adebesi]

Excellent point, Pogue.

Hey, guys. This is great, Friday afternoon and I am feeling positive, more so than I have all week. What splendid timing. To think, yesterday I was stressing about whether our manager was better than Sam Allardyce, but such silly notions seem a world away now. We have an excellent young squad, we are on a massive blip but with a few signings and a clean slate next season all will be well again.

I might close this window now and leave at this for the day because anything more is only likely to ruin it.

 

[darko]

Am I the only one who thought that Fellaini is too pedestrian for United's playing style (well not this years playing style haha)?

 

[Dominos]

RE the Moyes message - if there's one thing that I think has undermined him in a subtle way since the beginning, its repe


Van Gaal is divisive and his spells at Bayern and Barca both ended in tears. If the Board were up for such a manager they'd have gone for Mourinho in the first place.

Wouldn't be my first choice for a long term manager. But he would have us playing good football. Perhaps that's enough right now.

They should've realised by now their principles on what they were looking for in a manager were wrong, and go down a completely different route next time.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Nah, in that scenario I can imagine hearing that he needs time to rebuild the entire stadium, brick by brick, before he can be properly judged.

If that doesn't work, 'sensible pundits' will insist that Moyes must be given the funds to atomically dematerialise the entire squad and then rebuild them molecule by molecule to his own specifications.

If this still doesn't provide Moyes with the exact right circumstances for his highly complex footballing vision to come to fruition, I can see Fergie assembling a doomsday device - 'sensible pundits' will frantically assure us that the world simply hasn't been pulling it's weight and that a 'massive, global clear-out' is needed in order for Moyes to have a fair go at it. 'True fans' like Drummer and Pogue will righteously agree that though they love their families, and have enjoyed life on Earth, this is simply the only realistic way forward at this point.

Moyes will be bundled into an underground bunker for his own protection, and all other life on the planet will be eradicated.

Moyes will emerge from his bunker, just as Fergie has instructed, with a football, two sets of goal posts and a homemade banner that reads "Barclay's Premier League" on it. He will mount the banner and the goal posts in the hard, dry, dead Earth and proceed to play a single match, against no-one, for the title of 'Premier League Champion of the Universe' - first goal wins.

He stoically plods up field, ball at his feet. Fast, nervous breaths as he approaches the empty opposition goal. He aims a lofted ball into the open net but just as the ball is about to cross the line, a rogue gust of post-apocalypse wind picks the ball up and blows it in the opposite direction...

Straight down the makeshift pitch it blows and straight into Moyes' own net.

Game over.

Moyes sighs and stumbles off into the empty, desolate wasteland - muttering to himself about how 'all he can do is try and win the next one'.

made me chuckle

 

[Kaos]

Moyes won't get rid of Young and Valencia, in fact if wager that they'd probably play a similar number of games next season regardless of who we buy, they're just his sort of players. I'd expect Hernandez, Kagawa and maybe RVP to go though.

 

[fishfingers15]

Nah, in that scenario I can imagine hearing that he needs time to rebuild the entire stadium, brick by brick, before he can be properly judged.

If that doesn't work, 'sensible pundits' will insist that Moyes must be given the funds to atomically dematerialise the entire squad and then rebuild them molecule by molecule to his own specifications.

If this still doesn't provide Moyes with the exact right circumstances for his highly complex footballing vision to come to fruition, I can see Fergie assembling a doomsday device - 'sensible pundits' will frantically assure us that the world simply hasn't been pulling it's weight and that a 'massive, global clear-out' is needed in order for Moyes to have a fair go at it. 'True fans' like Drummer and Pogue will righteously agree that though they love their families, and have enjoyed life on Earth, this is simply the only realistic way forward at this point.

Moyes will be bundled into an underground bunker for his own protection, and all other life on the planet will be eradicated.

Moyes will emerge from his bunker, just as Fergie has instructed, with a football, two sets of goal posts and a homemade banner that reads "Barclay's Premier League" on it. He will mount the banner and the goal posts in the hard, dry, dead Earth and proceed to play a single match, against no-one, for the title of 'Premier League Champion of the Universe' - first goal wins.

He stoically plods up field, ball at his feet. Fast, nervous breaths as he approaches the empty opposition goal. He aims a lofted ball into the open net but just as the ball is about to cross the line, a rogue gust of post-apocalypse wind picks the ball up and blows it in the opposite direction...

Straight down the makeshift pitch it blows and straight into Moyes' own net.

Game over.

Moyes sighs and stumbles off into the empty, desolate wasteland - muttering to himself about how 'all he can do is try and win the next one'.

Fair play.

 

[Empire]

Moyes won't get rid of Young and Valencia, in fact if wager that they'd probably play a similar number of games next season regardless of who we buy, they're just his sort of players. I'd expect Hernandez, Kagawa and maybe RVP to go though.

Pienaar and Mirallas are nothing like Young and Valencia.

 

[Kaos]

Pienaar and Mirallas are nothing like Young and Valencia.

I was going by Moyes' selection habits at United. He always seems to favour Young and Valencia in the big games despite the fact we almost lost them all when they start. It's bizarre.

 

[adamwest]

Nah, in that scenario I can imagine hearing that he needs time to rebuild the entire stadium, brick by brick, before he can be properly judged.

If that doesn't work, 'sensible pundits' will insist that Moyes must be given the funds to atomically dematerialise the entire squad and then rebuild them molecule by molecule to his own specifications.

If this still doesn't provide Moyes with the exact right circumstances for his highly complex footballing vision to come to fruition, I can see Fergie assembling a doomsday device - 'sensible pundits' will frantically assure us that the world simply hasn't been pulling it's weight and that a 'massive, global clear-out' is needed in order for Moyes to have a fair go at it. 'True fans' like Drummer and Pogue will righteously agree that though they love their families, and have enjoyed life on Earth, this is simply the only realistic way forward at this point.

Moyes will be bundled into an underground bunker for his own protection, and all other life on the planet will be eradicated.

Moyes will emerge from his bunker, just as Fergie has instructed, with a football, two sets of goal posts and a homemade banner that reads "Barclay's Premier League" on it. He will mount the banner and the goal posts in the hard, dry, dead Earth and proceed to play a single match, against no-one, for the title of 'Premier League Champion of the Universe' - first goal wins.

He stoically plods up field, ball at his feet. Fast, nervous breaths as he approaches the empty opposition goal. He aims a lofted ball into the open net but just as the ball is about to cross the line, a rogue gust of post-apocalypse wind picks the ball up and blows it in the opposite direction...

Straight down the makeshift pitch it blows and straight into Moyes' own net.

Game over.

Moyes sighs and stumbles off into the empty, desolate wasteland - muttering to himself about how 'all he can do is try and win the next one'.

Holy christ, this is good.

 

[togg]

Nick Powell might be in the mix too. He's been going great guns at Wigan (although no news for a few weeks now, anyone know if he's injured?)

If nothing else, he can bring with him some valuable Europa League experience

Ah Europa...can't wait...Thursday is the new wednesday....(oh and tuesday of course...)