Moyes So Far!

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pocco said:
I'm genuinely glad that I'm not one of those that just hates Moyes. I mean, if he does turn it around and stays at the club for a long time, what is it going to be like for those that just hate the guy? Supporting United will never be the same for them.
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I don't hate the guy, no where near it. I just think he's hopelessly out of his depth.

Having said that, if by some miracle he manages to prove us wrong and ends up being a success for us from next season onwards, I'll be the first to name and shame myself.
 
Getsme said:
Good post.
I'd imagine a lot of fans feel like that.
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I suppose the 'Moyes has to go' thread is a bit of a hint of that. The poll started with over 90% saying he should be sacked and mostly fans of other clubs saying we should keep him. Now it's up to 20% and 72 people who say we should keep him, so it not just Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea fans.

I myself have one (Israeli) supporter I talk to on facebook. He originally said we should give Moyes two years, but has been weakening over the past few weeks and after the game in Greece he was almost ready to give up on him. Then a few days pass, he calms down and I find out he has posted a blog in which he says we must continie to back Moyes and that some fans (like me) need to learn what being a United supporter is like and that sticking up to the manager no matter the situation is part of our values.

I don't think I'll bother discussing Moyes with him again.
 
Amir said:
I suppose the 'Moyes has to go' thread is a bit of a hint of that. The poll started with over 90% saying he should be sacked and mostly fans of other clubs saying we should keep him. Now it's up to 20% and 72 people who say we should keep him, so it not just Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea fans.

I myself have one (Israeli) supporter I talk to on facebook. He originally said we should give Moyes two years, but has been weakening over the past few weeks and after the game in Greece he was almost ready to give up on him. Then a few days pass, he calms down and I find out he has posted a blog in which he says we must continie to back Moyes and that some fans (like me) need to learn what being a United supporter is like and that sticking up to the manager no matter the situation is part of our values.

I don't think I'll bother discussing Moyes with him again.
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You have to remain with an open mind if your going to have a discussion, otherwise your basically barking your own opinion. As I touched on in my earlier post, it's to early to make a judgement but Moyes has given himself and us a massive mountain to climb in regards to trust in running the club. Your opinion has no room for pro Moyes talk but if he does start to turn things round you could end with egg on your face, perhaps this is the reason some of us are still clinging to the false dawns in Moyes reign, and yes I maybe include myself here.
It's an impossible situation, "Fergie out" banners and then the success that followed has likely affected our/my judgement in this.
 
gasmanc said:
You have to remain with an open mind if your going to have a discussion, otherwise your basically barking your own opinion. As I touched on in my earlier post, it's to early to make a judgement but Moyes has given himself and us a massive mountain to climb in regards to trust in running the club. Your opinion has no room for pro Moyes talk but if he does start to turn things round you could end with egg on your face, perhaps this is the reason some of us are still clinging to the false dawns in Moyes reign, and yes I maybe include myself here.
It's an impossible situation, "Fergie out" banners and then the success that followed has likely affected our/my judgement in this.
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I agree you have to keep an open mind but I also believe we should also post what we truly believe or feel (I'm not saying you don't btw) I think there are some posters in here backing Moyes for no other reason than they can say 'I told you so' if he does manage to turn it around.
Likewise their are some who will fully back him no matter what, and I have to say I admire that, it would be easier to turn on him than it is to stick with him.
 
Getsme said:
I agree you have to keep an open mind but I believe we should also post what we truly believe (I'm not saying you don't btw) I think there are some posters in here backing Moyes for no other reason other than can say 'I told you so' if he does manage to turn it around
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Who?
 
Anyone doing that to potentially be able to say, 'I know more about football' is foolish though because if Moyes doesn't turn it around, they'll be shown up as knowing very little about football.

I'd rather just call things as I see them, and judge things as they are, rather than how I think they might turn out. Or how it may make me look better in the future.

We're 7th, below Everton, below Tottenham, and we're playing shit football, and we've spent £70m.
 
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My fence sitting stems from Fergusons closing speech, also his early years, i don't really like admitting that but it's probably the best way to describe my reasoning for showing even the slightest support for what we've seen from Moyes so far.
My anti Moyes opinion has been diluted somewhat by the break in actual football but should we pick up where we left off in our big matches this month then I am sure it will break me and many others, perhaps all the way up to the boardroom.
 
I turned against Moyes after Olympiacos but the time since has certainly seen a vague sense of guilt set in. Or maybe I've forgotten just how terrible we were and started hoping again. It's really not rational though, based on pure faith and wishing he'd do something right.

If the West Brom game doesn't go well that guilt/hope will just mean I'm even more pissed off though.
 
sullydnl said:
I turned against Moyes after Olympiacos but the time since has certainly seen a vague sense of guilt set in. Or maybe I've forgotten just how terrible we were and started hoping again. It's really not rational though, based on pure faith and wishing he'd do something right.

If the West Brom game doesn't go well that guilt/hope will just mean I'm even more pissed off though.
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The fact that we haven't played in 10 days makes this automatically Moyes' best period of 2014 so far with us.
 
gasmanc said:
You have to remain with an open mind if your going to have a discussion, otherwise your basically barking your own opinion.
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I'll happily keep an open mind, but if the other side believes that at the end of the day we should support Moyes no matter what because of 'values', then who is the one not keeping an open mind? I hate to say but it's a little like trying to talk sense to a religious fanatic...

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. It's only football. I just wish I had a reason to think I could be wrong.
 
Amir said:
Him getting us out of the domestic cups has been his biggest blessing. Fewer matches to judge him on... :lol:
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:lol: It's so true!

Lately, when we've had no games, I keep thinking "awh I'm being harsh. Give him another shot"....Then WHAM!!!!! He reminds me right away as to why I don't rate him....And then we're off again for two weeks :lol:
 
pocco said:
I'm genuinely glad that I'm not one of those that just hates Moyes. I mean, if he does turn it around and stays at the club for a long time, what is it going to be like for those that just hate the guy? Supporting United will never be the same for them.
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Does hatred really have much to do with the Moyes debate?

I think trust is the operative word for many people, firstly a lack of it in the manager's judgement and also whether he is worthy of shaping the team's future this summer. I would have liked him to be the successor Fergie hoped for; alas, there are just too many doubts for me to have such confidence.

When the first poll was started a couple of months ago i declared as undecided but stated that definite improvement was necessary [like a good few others IIRC], regrettably we've seen precious little in the way of sustained advances since that time.
 
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gasmanc said:
Pogue I reckon
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Bollocks, Pogue simply tries to put forward a clear argument because so much of the anti Moyes stuff is based on assumption and emotion. There are fair and clear reasons why Moyes isnt right for the job but half the time those arguments arent put forward. Pogue merely counters the arguments that are based around assumption, inaccurate facts and overly biased twisting of reality.
 
If one day he turn it around with us, it's not a shame for all of us who wants him out from the start.

He hasn't showed anything worthy previously (unless you think keeping Everton pinned around midtable for 10 years is something), and he hasn't showed anything worthy so far (till 7th March 2014), if one day suddenly he strike genius and turn into Jose Mourinho + Rinul Michel + Saf rolled into one well.... Cleverly can become Zidane one day... so let's not slag him and give him all the support we can, play him every week, because... well... he can be Zidane one day.
 
Stack said:
Bollocks, Pogue simply tries to put forward a clear argument because so much of the anti Moyes stuff is based on assumption and emotion. There are fair and clear reasons why Moyes isnt right for the job but half the time those arguments arent put forward. Pogue merely counters the arguments that are based around assumption, inaccurate facts and overly biased twisting of reality.
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IMO Pogue got a little personal and taken it too far beyond his normal logic.

We all knew what Pogue are capable of writting, but when it comes to Moyes, I find it very shallow (in terms of the defence Pogue's using to defend him). But to be fair to him, there's not much you can defend Moyes with, and you have to admire people coming here to defend him, it's getting harder every day
 
Sky1981 said:
IMO Pogue got a little personal and taken it too far beyond his normal logic.

We all knew what Pogue are capable of writting, but when it comes to Moyes, I find it very shallow (in terms of the defence Pogue's using to defend him). But to be fair to him, there's not much you can defend Moyes with, and you have to admire people coming here to defend him, it's getting harder every day
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Well you kind of miss the point. I dont think Pogues is a Moyes fan. What I see is Pogue arguing against the points being made which are based on wispy thin air and not much else. I dont see Pogue trying to argue the case that moyes is the right man.
 
Cal? said:
You're a better fan than me, I have completely given up on this season and if a poor run of results sees him sacked, so be it.
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I have given up on this season too but I both want the board to change the manager, and wish him the best while he's here. It's odd I know, but there it is. Haven't gotten to the point where I actively want him to fail miserably. I mean he's doing it anyway but I dont want to it to happen. Maybe the feeling that his job is safe also plays a part.
 
Stack said:
Well you kind of miss the point. I dont think Pogues is a Moyes fan. What I see is Pogue arguing against the points being made which are based on wispy thin air and not much else. I dont see Pogue trying to argue the case that moyes is the right man.
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He's probably too subtle and seems like he's just trying to balance some opinions, but at this rate, the rational and logical thing is to believe that "Moyes is not good enough" and anything other than that is wishful thinking.

I'm not saying it won't happened, or could not happen (Moyes comes good), but all the stats and events up to this point swings heavily on the other side
 
Sky1981 said:
He's probably too subtle and seems like he's just trying to balance some opinions, but at this rate, the rational and logical thing is to believe that "Moyes is not good enough" and anything other than that is wishful thinking.

I'm not saying it won't happened, or could not happen (Moyes comes good), but all the stats and events up to this point swings heavily on the other side
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Yeah but there is nothing wrong in Pogue pointing out when points are a bit daft or based on god knows what.
 
the whole season has been one of a a few peaks, like Swansea 4-1 away, Leverkusen 5-0 away, beating Arsenal and Liverpool 1-0 league/cup but punctuated with horrendous displays and results.

At times it's hard not to fear the worst, like with West Brom home, City away, the double 1-0 defeats at home back to back v Newcastle and Tottenham, Olympiakos etc.
But then things wear off a day or 2 later, and you're ready to go again.

That 10 day period with the 3 big home games, and also West Ham away thrown in is going to be critical!
Not to top 4 or anything obviously, but just in giving any kind of sign next year might be different.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
I have given up on this season too but I both want the board to change the manager, and wish him the best while he's here. It's odd I know, but there it is. Haven't gotten to the point where I actively want him to fail miserably. I mean he's doing it anyway but I dont want to it to happen. Maybe the feeling that his job is safe also plays a part.
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I don't actively want the team to lose, but will I get all upset if we lose a few games and he gets sacked, not at all...

I'll be very upset if we keep losing and he stays...
 
Stack said:
Bollocks, Pogue simply tries to put forward a clear argument because so much of the anti Moyes stuff is based on assumption and emotion. There are fair and clear reasons why Moyes isnt right for the job but half the time those arguments arent put forward. Pogue merely counters the arguments that are based around assumption, inaccurate facts and overly biased twisting of reality.
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The "anti Moyes stuff" is based on what we see, you could even argue that those still in support of him are the ones basing their opinion on assumption (he will come good Fergie did) and emotion ( Fergie told us to be patient). That's points I was making earlier in the thread.
Of course I understand people trying to keep a sense of perspective it's the sensible option but point scoring by countering nothing arguments, no thanks.
 
Stack said:
Bollocks, Pogue simply tries to put forward a clear argument because so much of the anti Moyes stuff is based on assumption and emotion. There are fair and clear reasons why Moyes isnt right for the job but half the time those arguments arent put forward. Pogue merely counters the arguments that are based around assumption, inaccurate facts and overly biased twisting of reality.
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Rubbish. The reasons why Moyes isn't thought of as right for the job by a majority of people are: i) where we are in the league table and ii) the way we've played, and those arguments have been put forth all season, constantly. Sometimes, in amidst the wave of negativity sometimes people go overboard. But the idea that people are ignoring the REAL reasons while spouting emotional crap, is simply untrue.
 
gasmanc said:
The "anti Moyes stuff" is based on what we see, you could even argue that those still in support of him are the ones basing their opinion on assumption (he will come good Fergie did) and emotion ( Fergie told us to be patient). That's points I was making earlier in the thread.
Of course I understand people trying to keep a sense of perspective it's the sensible option but point scoring by countering nothing arguments, no thanks.
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Indeed.
I fully believe that Moyes would have a hell of a lot more support if he gave the fans something to believe in, but there's nothing, not even the smallest inkiling. All I hear in defence of Moyes is, it's not his team, he needs time, Fergie left him with a mess, Fergie said we need to get behind him or Fergie came good in the end, to name but a few.
I don't believe I've heard a solid reason why Moyes should be given more time, the simple reason is there isn't any, unless you use blind faith as a reason. I appreciate that some posters back him, that's their choice and good on them but how many of the 'Moyes in' group would be upset if he got sacked?
 
I've a question.
What would it take for you to change your mind about Moyes? Question applies to both the in and out groups.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Rubbish. The reasons why Moyes isn't thought of as right for the job by a majority of people are: i) where we are in the league table and ii) the way we've played, and those arguments have been put forth all season, constantly. Sometimes, in amidst the wave of negativity sometimes people go overboard. But the idea that people are ignoring the REAL reasons while spouting emotional crap, is simply untrue.
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As usual, you completely and utterly miss the point.
 
Stack said:
As usual, you completely and utterly miss the point.
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Sure, anyone who disagrees with your post "misses" the point.

What are the valid reasons why Moyes isn't good enough for United?

Let's here these refreshing viewpoints that haven't been repeated here countless times.
 
Mauzindark said:
He's such a tedious boring man. The same cliched nonsense recycled every week. Show him the door please.
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It's a well written letter, that isn't really self-pitying, nor does he directly apolgoise for anything - which I quite like. He doesn't need to be apologetic about whats happened so far, he needs to be proactive/confident about what's going to happen coming forward - and that's what this letter is.
 
Getsme said:
I've a question.
What would it take for you to change your mind about Moyes? Question applies to both the in and out groups.
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2nd half of the table finish, no improvement by December, dressing room completely lost, shags Ed Woodward, draws on fake eyebrows.

Take yer' pick.
 
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