Moyes So Far!

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Cal? said:
I don't know what he got upto at QPR, anyway, the point remains that 110 minutes is no way enough to decide if he can be useful, especially when you see Smalling playing so many games (badly) at RB.
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Manager knows best.

Do you remember when Zaha was given very few chances even when Valencia did jack shit?

Everyone went up in arms and complained on why Zaha was not playing. This happened with every game Valencia played badly. Then one game we played badly and Zaha came on for the last 10 mins and everyone was excited and relieved. Guess what? He played shitter than Valencia which is quite and achievement: he did not track back, he fumbled every cross over etc.

Suddenly, everyone went quiet and did not want to show that how wrong they are. You may say well he did not get the chances like Fabio and that caused him to not play well. Ok, what happened when he got loaned to Cardiff city? He didn't perform and didn't track back.

He was still Raw. Again, the manager knows best. You may say well Moyes doesn't know anything and he is wrong, well Fergie couldn't of been wrong too? He didn't play him that much in the last 2 years of his time at united.
 
surf said:
This part of the Andy Mitten piece is not consistent with what we've long heard about having an excellent youth system. The 90 minute rule has already been changed so what else might he think is wrong?
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Things have changed from last year. Last year we had a good squad, this year we don't.
 
yanuzay said:
Manager knows best.

Do you remember when Zaha was given very few chances even when Valencia did jack shit?

Everyone went up in arms and complained on why Zaha was not playing. This happened with every game Valencia played badly. Then one game we played badly and Zaha came on for the last 10 mins and everyone was excited and relieved. Guess what? He played shitter than Valencia which is quite and achievement: he did not track back, he fumbled every cross over etc.

Suddenly, everyone went quiet and did not want to show that how wrong they are. You may say well he did not get the chances like Fabio and that caused him to not play well. Ok, what happened when he got loaned to Cardiff city? He didn't perform and didn't track back.

He was still Raw. Again, the manager knows best. You may say well Moyes doesn't know anything and he is wrong, well Fergie couldn't of been wrong too? He didn't play him that much in the last 2 years of his time at united.
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I love how you just generalize things as if the caf didn't have many different opinions just to prove a point.
 
yanuzay said:
Manager knows best.

Do you remember when Zaha was given very few chances even when Valencia did jack shit?

Everyone went up in arms and complained on why Zaha was not playing. This happened with every game Valencia played badly. Then one game we played badly and Zaha came on for the last 10 mins and everyone was excited and relieved. Guess what? He played shitter than Valencia which is quite and achievement: he did not track back, he fumbled every cross over etc.

Suddenly, everyone went quiet and did not want to show that how wrong they are. You may say well he did not get the chances like Fabio and that caused him to not play well. Ok, what happened when he got loaned to Cardiff city? He didn't perform and didn't track back.

He was still Raw. Again, the manager knows best. You may say well Moyes doesn't know anything and he is wrong, well Fergie couldn't of been wrong too? He didn't play him that much in the last 2 years of his time at united.
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Zaha has more assists than Valencia this season.

Sir Alex played Kagawa most of the time towards the end of last season, including all the big games, does he not know better than Moyes?
 
yanuzay said:
Why have you not highlighted the loan spell at QPR? Agenda driven?

Look at previous posts on explanation.
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It was actually quite a good spell for Fabio there. He started playing from the beginning (the first game was terrible when they shipped 4 goals or so) but then played well in other games. Then he got injured (as usual) for a couple of months and then returned to the first team. Even with Redknapp he was playing until they got relegated, in which case Redknapp decided to play only players who will be there next season.

Another Caf legend is that Fabio didn't play at QPR. Of course, he wasn't brilliant there but you have to consider the circumstances, having absolutelly terrible players to play with.

So as you say, really agenda driven ;)
 
Cal? said:
Zaha has more assists than Valencia this season.

Sir Alex played Kagawa most of the time towards the end of last season, including all the big games, does he not know better than Moyes?
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Your forgot about the emergence of Januzaj this season. That was the major reason Kagawa was not played as much.

You do know that assists does not show how good a player is? Why don't you mention the amount of goals conceded because of Zaha losing the ball/tracking back?

I am not say Valencia is a very good player, I am just comparing the two.
 
Revan said:
You have counted two Europa League games for Ashley Young.
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:lol: Thanks that further helps our case. So really there is no valid argument for overlooking Shinji and starting Young.

And also for pro-Fabio discussions I distinctly remember 'arry saying he was a very good young player but the circumstances what with the relegation battle weren't ideal.
 
Revan said:
It was actually quite a good spell for Fabio there. He started playing from the beginning (the first game was terrible when they shipped 4 goals or so) but then played well in other games. Then he got injured (as usual) for a couple of months and then returned to the first team. Even with Redknapp he was playing until they got relegated, in which case Redknapp decided to play only players who will be there next season.

Another Caf legend is that Fabio didn't play at QPR. Of course, he wasn't brilliant there but you have to consider the circumstances, having absolutelly terrible players to play with.
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A Good spell is not enough for Manchester united. We don't want an average spell. I had seen most of the matches when he was at QPR, and he was no where near as good as his twin brother Rafael.
 
yanuzay said:
Your forgot about the emergence of Januzaj this season. That was the major reason Kagawa was not played as much.

You do know that assists does not show how good a player is? Why don't you mention the amount of goals conceded because of Zaha losing the ball/tracking back?

I am not say Valencia is a very good player, I am just comparing the two.
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Feck sake. You used Kagawa lack of assists argument in one of your previous posts. Now you are saying to others to not use assist arguments.

How many goals we got shiped because Zaha lost the ball/didn't track? Please enlighten us, he anyway has only 7 games thi season (4 for us, all from the bench). On the contrary we shipped quite a few goals this year because of Valencia, the biggest one in the game against City when he literally forgot his player who he was supposed to defend against.
 
Mauzindark said:
:lol: Thanks that further helps our case. So really there is no valid argument for overlooking Shinji and starting Young.
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It is preference. I am not saying Moyes is right or wrong in this particular point.

I garuntee you Mourinho and Moyes would of done the same thing. Martinez, Pep etc would of done the opposite.

There is no right or wrong, it is just about having different systems and different players to suit that system.

In this case, Young was a better candidate for this system.
 
yanuzay said:
A Good spell is not enough for Manchester united. We don't want an average spell. I had seen most of the matches when he was at QPR, and he was no where near as good as his twin brother Rafael.
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Of course he wasn't as good as Rafael. Not many right backs are. And I agree that he wasn't great at QPR when he had to play with shit players.

However we are talking here for giving him a chance and be a backup for both positions. Our backups are Smalling (who is a terrbile RB) and Buttner (who is a terrible player). Do you think that they are better than Fabio in those positions?
 
surf said:
This part of the Andy Mitten piece is not consistent with what we've long heard about having an excellent youth system. The 90 minute rule has already been changed so what else might he think is wrong?
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I think it's slightly cyclical and hard to consistently produce first team players. At the moment the only one who really looks like he could make it is Wilson. There are a few behind him who are possibles, but he's the clear standout at present.

I think you are always looking at ways to improve so you're not left behind and you look at Germany, Belgium etc who are producing a far better quality of player at present and aim to reach that level with your homegrown talent.
 
yanuzay said:
It is preference. I am not saying Moyes is right or wrong in this particular point.

I garuntee you Mourinho and Moyes would of done the same thing. Martinez, Pep etc would of done the opposite.

There is no right or wrong, it is just about having different systems and different players to suit that system.

In this case, Young was a better candidate for this system.
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What system ? Ain't no system in the Olympiakos match. Unless you're referring the one with relentless long balls and blind eye crossing.
 
yanuzay said:
It is preference. I am not saying Moyes is right or wrong in this particular point.

I garuntee you Mourinho and Moyes would of done the same thing. Martinez, Pep etc would of done the opposite.

There is no right or wrong, it is just about having different systems and different players to suit that system.

In this case, Young was a better candidate for this system.
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You can't guarantee that Mourinho would have played Young consistently. Unless you are Mourinho, you can't. In fact, looking to Mourinho in his last 4 spells, has he ever played a player as bad as Young in a consistent basis? The answer is no. So, how can you guarantee us that he would have made Young overpresent?
 
Revan said:
Feck sake. You used Kagawa lack of assists argument in one of your previous posts. Now you are saying to others to not use assist arguments.

How many goals we got shiped because Zaha lost the ball/didn't track? Please enlighten us, he anyway has only 7 games thi season (4 for us, all from the bench). On the contrary we shipped quite a few goals this year because of Valencia, the biggest one in the game against City when he literally forgot his player who he was supposed to defend against.
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All I am saying is using assists only whilst not seeing the bigger picture is the wrong thing to do when comparing players.

When I was talking about Mata having more assists, I was comparing the only variable between them that is not constant. They both have similair ability when tracking back. So using that as a comparison point is pointless.
 
Revan said:
You can't guarantee that Mourinho would have played Young consistently. Unless you are Mourinho, you can't. In fact, looking to Mourinho in his last 4 spells, has he ever played a player as bad as Young in a consistent basis? The answer is no. So, how can you guarantee us that he would have made Young overpresent?
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I can't see any top tier manager wanting to play Young on a consistent basis. It's almost laughable in my opinion.
 
Mauzindark said:
What system ? Ain't no system in the Olympiakos match. Unless you're referring the one with relentless long balls and blind eye crossing.
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We had a system should of been met when going into the game. But, this was not shown because the players did not perform. Simple as that.

When I say system, I mean: Formations, and other tactics. They all make a system.
 
yanuzay said:
We had a system should of been met when going into the game. But, this was not shown because the players did not perform. Simple as that.

When I say system, I mean: Formations, and other tactics. They all make a system.
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With Moyes ? Unable to process, to much data overload..
 
yanuzay said:
We had a system should of been met when going into the game. But, this was not shown because the players did not perform. Simple as that.

When I say system, I mean: Formations, and other tactics. They all make a system.
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I think Moyes is a hybrid of Mourinho/Guardiola/Bielsa
tactically, it's just the players forget it all as soon as they get on that field. He's hard done by, that's for sure.
 
Revan said:
Only in the first year. Fergie had also a tendency to give more chances to British players.


:lol:

The program is in an infinite crossing loop.
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You could argue he played Young as he had to. Valencia on the right, Nani from time to time, Kagawa too. But Moyes is simply reliant on Young. Has anyone got a figure on how many games he's played Young out of the total games this season?
 
yanuzay said:
Hey, sarcastic poster, do you have: a UEFA license B and Pro? 10 years worth of experience in the PL? Experience in consistently managing a team to 5-7th in the league?

No. Come back when you do.
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Well, he said to stop discussing only because of that.

Do you have it anyway? For discussing this? Are you really Moyes (in that case you have it and we don't)?

Out of curiosity, do you rate highly Toni Pulis, Roy Hodgson, Alex McLeish and Sam Allardyce? All of them have that license and those years of management in EPL.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Guys, stop discussing things. Manager knows best.
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I think everything that can be discussed about Moyes has been in this thread, including the pro Moyes brigade. Not really sure what more there is to argue/discuss anymore..apart from going round in circles. We have him until at least next Christmas that is for sure.
 
yanuzay said:
You wouldn't know that.

He has Hazard and Willian.
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Well he had Hazard, and bought Willian, as he felt it was needed. Moyes on the other hand decided he'd spend a year 'giving everyone a chance'
 
yanuzay said:
Hey, sarcastic poster, do you have: a UEFA license B and Pro? 10 years worth of experience in the PL? Experience in consistently managing a team to 5-7th in the league?

No. Come back when you do.
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Wow way to lose your cool man. So no-one without Pro coaching certificates should ever be allowed to discuss tactics ?
 
yanuzay said:
Hey, sarcastic poster, do you have: a UEFA license B and Pro? 10 years worth of experience in the PL? Experience in consistently managing a team to 5-7th in the league?

No. Come back when you do.
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Am assuming you do, in which case your time will be better spent than arguing with us on redcafe.
 
Sam said:
Well he had Hazard, and bought Willian, as he felt it was needed. Moyes on the other hand decided he'd spend a year 'giving everyone a chance'
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Well, wouldn't you?

Imagine you are a Manager and you have taken out all of the stuff and if you couldn't alienate the players enough, you want to take out most of the players out? I don't think so, you would give the players who win the PL title by 10 points to show how good they was.

I know, that ended badly, but who in the world would of known that?!
 
yanuzay said:
Well, wouldn't you?

Imagine you are a Manager and you have taken out all of the stuff and if you couldn't alienate the players enough, you want to take out most of the players out? I don't think so, you would give the players who win the PL title by 10 points to show how good they was.

I know, that ended badly, but who in the world would of known that?!
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I think most people could see that come big changes were needed in the Summer, in regards to the midfield and the wingers.
 
Mauzindark said:
Wow way to lose your cool man. So no-one without Pro coaching certificates should ever be allowed to discuss tactics ?
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MJJ said:
Am assuming you do, in which case your time will be better spent than arguing with us on redcafe.
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:lol:

I am just saying, if anyone said they know better than Moyes and Steve Round, please step forward.

I like to think I know a bit about tactics, but that doesn't mean your opinions in any less inferior or superior than mine.

But then to go on to say how tactically inept Moyes and and his staff are, is just plain stupid. No offence.
 
yanuzay said:
Well, wouldn't you?

Imagine you are a Manager and you have taken out all of the stuff and if you couldn't alienate the players enough, you want to take out most of the players out? I don't think so, you would give the players who win the PL title by 10 points to show how good they was.

I know, that ended badly, but who in the world would of known that?!
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By openly declaring that we need a multitude of world class signings to compete ?
 
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