I just cannot understand how some people are still backing him after what he's put us through all season, I really do want to find that one thing he's done that has convinced some people that he can turn it round.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I just cannot understand how some people are still backing him after what he's put us through all season, I really do want to find that one thing he's done that has convinced some people that he can turn it round.
Do you want to carry on posting in the thread?
Sorry again
Thought it was getting a bit heated and going around in circles. Was just trying to have some fun.
No offence mean't
I always thought the signing of Mata would signal the end of the 442, change us to something like a 4231 with Mata and Rooney playing centrally behind RvP and using our fall backs for width / and movement from either Mata or Rooney - Hell maybe even have Young on the left to give width but rely solely on Rafael to do it on the right. But then in his first game Mata was out wide and we continued with the same tactics.
The only game we did change it and it looked good was against Palace only for Moyes to go back to his prefered style of play a game later.... You know because it had been so successful for us this season.
Care to explain why he insists on playing Valencia and Young when everyone and their dogs can see they have been awful this season, and no doubt that stats in his bunker will back that up.Hi,
His style of play can be implemented until he gets the right players, until then his plan B to sit back is not working because of the reasons I told you. So there is not much hope but to hope for the best.
I am surprised no one has given this a thought.
P.S.
Sultan is the man.
Don't you see the irony here? You're complaining about the generalizations and characterizations by the "Moyes out" camp while simultaneously implying that they are "foaming at the mouth at the mere mention of his name".
Hi,
The bolded line is fantastic.
Since when Traore has become a top player?
Also it is very possible that both Barry and Deulofeu will be at Everton next season so this shouldn't be a problem. In fact I think that bonus points for Martinez identifying and fixing his squad's problems in such a short space of time.
Any idea why Moyes didn't have last season Barkley - one of the best young talents in the world?
Last line. An another point of view, so far Martinez has won (in his first season at Everton) more points than Moyes has ever won (from the same amount of games) playing a far superior brand of football.
Cheers!
The Palace game followed by that line up in Greece is beyond anything I could have imagined. It's almost as if he's trying his hardest to become a Liverpool legend.
He stumbled onto a good thing against Palace, yet decided to bring back Valencia, Young and Cleverly?
No no, I'm not asking anybody here to shut up or something, God forbid, I'm just saying that you'll get plenty of 'MOYES OUT FFS' or 'WHY WE SUCK' threads after we lose another match while there'll be such threads made previously, I just think it's better if we did stick to same threads if we're continuing same subject rather than starting new threads about same subject just because 'we feel like it'. For the sake of not making more mess.
About your second point, I agree, I was referring to hypothetical situation where our players would intentionally play at, say, 20% because they want to drop points to get Moyes out. As I've said, I don't think that such situation is happening/is going to happen myself, was just answering somebody's else post.
Amazing what Moyes is doing with a whole squad of champions compared to Martinez with a handful of top 4 squad players.
It is seriously fantastic how Moyes gets credit for playing Januzaj this season, but it is also a point of defense (in his comparison to Martinez) that now Martinez has Barkley...a player that Moyes chose to not play last season (i.e Martinez gets minus points in comparison for playing Barkley, a talent similar to Januzaj).
It was slightly tongue in cheek, but I am constantly accused of being pro because I'm not as critical as it appears I'm supposed to be. It seems any objectivity is seen as being a Moyes fan.
Because he's a sensible football man if nothing else. And secondly yes, because I trust Sir Alex's judgement on football more than my own or anyone else's.
If you look at it in context, Olypiakos have a RB who is a major threat and he assigned Valencia at RW to track back and help out with Smalling. Smalling is already vulnerable with his lack of pace and agility, playing Januzaj there is too much.
Valencia offers you speed strength, Young offers you not a lot but he can trackback whilst Januzaj is still needs to improve in that department. But that is no excuse for Young to played over Januzaj, you are right. But another factor that led Young to be played over Januzaj: Young has experience in the CL and can handle the pressure of being in a hostile place. So may say that is still not a an excuse, but that decision is down to the manager's preference. Mourinho would of made the same decision in my eyes.
Also, Januzaj is being managed to perfection. As a young player, Januzaj is at a critical pount in his career and playing him too much can: put strain on his developing body and cause injuries (just look at Owen), can increase his ego too much, can crack at the pressure, feels that he made it and can't improve as much etc.
So he is going to play when Januzaj is dropped? Young.
Yes we'll be alright. We'll be okay. Whats that, europa league twice on the bounce?
There's no reasoning with some people, Moyes can do no wrong in their eyes, it's society's fault why he's struggling.
Hypothetical situation here but, bare with me..
If all the rumours and stories are true, and Moyes gets rid of RVP, Hernandez, Kagawa and Rafael in the summer. Along with Vidic, Rio and Evra moving along...And Moyes gets his own players in....And we're still going down the same road with the same brand of football and the same results in the new season....What happens then?
It was a situation that struck me last week.
If all the rumours and stories are true, and Moyes gets rid of RVP, Hernandez, Kagawa and Rafael in the summer. Along with Vidic, Rio and Evra moving along...And Moyes gets his own players in....And we're still going down the same road with the same brand of football and the same results in the new season....What happens then?
It was a situation that struck me last week.
He'll get sacked, that's what's going to happen.
Possibly because there are huge flaws in your argument. For instance, Smalling is a fast centre back (but Moyes chooses to play him at right back much of the time). Jones is both a reasonably fast central defender and a mobile central midfielder. If Moyes wanted to play a high line, we certainly have the players to do so (Evans + Smalling). If Moyes wanted to use mobile central midfielders he could drop Carrick and play Jones. If he wanted wide players who can deliver quality then play Nani instead of Valencia.
Fine, that's a valid reason even if I disagree.
So play Januzaj in a dead rubber league game and rest him in the more important CL match a few days later (with no games for another week and a half)?
Why play Cleverly who hasn't been playing for weeks ahead of Fellaini who at least looked competent against Palace? Or Fletcher if big game experience is so important?
I had no idea where to put this and didn't think it warranted a thread but why are MUTV showing Olympiakos and Panathinaikos live?
Panathinaikos 1-0 up fwiw.
Panathinaikos 1-0 up fwiw.
I hope we see the back of him before we get to that.
Isn't there some new rule on here about propositioning other members?
You sicken, yet intrigue me
Let us see how far we've fallen?
You sicken, yet intrigue me
It's been said before...
Geez, mate. Young doesn't have experience in UCL. Before that game he had played 12 times in UCL (all of them in group stage). If Moyes wanted to go for experience then likely he would have gone for a superior player in Kagawa (who while not that much experienced in that level, had still played more than Young there.
Your other reason, for tracking back is spot on though. And it goes for both Young and Valencia. However trying to justify their inclusions in any other way like it was a sensible decision (and Mourinho would have done the same which is based in absolutely nothing, for a start Mourinho gets rid of completely shit players and doesn't make them regulars in his teams) won't go well here.
Yeah but if we don't and we split up an experienced, title winning squad..And let him bring in his own players..And the shit continues to hit the fan...And then we sack him and we're left with the players he brought in and missing the ones who have won as things...It's not a great situation
First of all, superior brand of football? Go say that to a Mourinho while he adds another trophy into his cabinet.
If you look at the points that Martinez has gathered, there is not a huge contrast. I will go to say he has underachieved with the players he has brought in to be honest. Barry is a very good player, Barkley is sensational (better than any of our midfielders), Lukaku (who I see you missed there) can make a huge difference to a team and they all should of made a bigger difference in my opinion. Can you tell me where the best LB/LW partnership of the 2012/13 has gone? Destroyed.
Moyes is going to do a summer clear out and bring in subpar players. We'll hover around seventh place playing the same dross because the man isn't capable of another game. He'll get the axe in December.
He gets the new excuse for 'having forced to make too much changes in order to improve his squad, and new signings take some time to settle' by a group of supporters and 'sack him , he's shit' by an another group.
Feck knows how club will behave though pretty clear we will be in a dark time after his eventual sacking with the new manager having a shit team and not that much money to spend.
That's my biggest worry, there's not that much wrong with United at the moment (except the manager), let him go wild this summer and we'd need years to recover (or our own TV deal).
now if we do get our own tv deal...we can buy anyone...even Moyes cant feck that up.....
Then what could have taken a season to recover could take a few more and see us spending unnecessary money in the process on replacing players we would have been better off keeping.
Too depressing to even contemplate, we didn't do the sensible thing in appointing Mourinho last year, but can we at least do the sensible thing and sack Moyes now?
Our Souness?
Hi,
First and foremost, Managers can change their playing styles i.e Wenger's invisibles were powerful strong and direct whereas now Wenger's team is based on silky one touch passing. So people saying Moyes should be judged on how he played at Everton is not right. He used the players he had to make his team compact and tough to beat which is effective, just look at how the most successful manager in Mourinho playing this "dull and boring football". It is just a preference to either play fast transition football (counter attack) or having the possession game. Both are effective. People forget in 2012/13 season, Everton have improved their way of football, remember how Baines and Pienaar were the best LB/LW partnership? Where is that now? People aslo do not notice that Martinez has loan signings of 3/4 top 4 team players: Lukaku, Barry, Traore, Deulofeu. Also, Moyes did not have Barkley who is one of the best young talents in the world! Yet, Martinez has earned similair points to Moyes. So I say, have some perspective.
Now, imagine Moyes will want to change his playing style, but he has not told us hat he wants and the team has not showed signs of any style!
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Does anyone remember at the start of the season/pre-season where we pressured high up the pitch and then we suddenly stopped after we lost so many games?
This because our strikers would close down the defenders and then the midfielder will close down the opposition's midfield, but then there would be a gap between the midfield and the defence of which many teams exploited.
Eventually, we solved that problem in December; we had our defence not push up, our midfielder stay back and our strikers to close down defenders one by one.
Why do you think we changed that? When our midfielders (who are already extremely immobile) went to close down the opposition and then have to get back even further than if our line of defence was pushed higher up the pitch. Our defence was so slow that we had to put the line of defence way back so the oppo striker can't penetrate the spaces left behind the slow defence. Also, it allows our midfielders to not worry about moving quickly in-between transition, not closing down higher up the pitch and effectively not letting any space between our midfield and defence. This defeats the point in what Moyes wants to do. Added to not getting what wants from how the team should play, they have no confidence and no belief. That is a disaster upon disaster.
So now we have a team that sits back, but we can't break and counter attack which defeats the point! We do not have any cohesion and pace: we have no pace when attacking and we do not pass and move which allows the break to be more efficient. Moyes had instructed Carrick and Cleverly to not move anywhere from our half because he so scared we would get exposed which I don't blame him. But, we can't pass from deep in our midfield because Carrick and Cleveley do not separate and do not move away from defence and thus the balls do not reach the strikers unless they come and collect it as the oppo are all over our deep lying midfielders!!
But, one variable that was constant throughout the season was we kept on crossing the ball constantly. Why? Moyes had a vision of play and crossing the ball was a key part of it and there is nothing wrong with crossing the ball if successful, it is very direct and efficient.
One conmen thing in all of this that effects our game, is our quality of players. We do not have fast mobile players in midfield that allows transitions from defence and attack, we do not have pacey centre backs that allow us to push high up (and if we did press high up, there will be a greater pressure on our centre backs to deliver in balls, yet we can't even put in a 5 yard pass which is disgraceful!), we do not have have full backs that cross the ball efficiently and into the right spaces, we do not have wingers who can cross the ball efficiently and in the right spaces and also can't go past people and can't pass and move. We just don't have the quality, don't let us winning the PL title to fool you as the previous coaches covered up our weaknesses by balancing our weaknesses and strengths. We would of got found out anyway, remember when we kept on winning 4-3 score lines? That is because we were exposed, but our strength in RVP covered it up. I am not blaming Moyes or Fergie, we are way beyond that point. We need better quality players and if you see lower down the league such as Southampton, Swansea etc they have more overall quality than us. Why? They are able to do things we can't as showed above, even if they cost so much less to get those players. Moyes who has now set up a scouting system that actually compares statistics from different areas of a player's qualities with other players. Fergie used to not use this technology and rely on the eye of his chief scout who just scouts the matches. The game has moved on, and so should we.
Ballbag went on Talksport and said that when he talked to Moyes, he told him his plans for the team and would like to play a style similar to Bayern of the 2012/13 season. I don't know what to make of that (don't want this to be a Moyes thread).
Even if Moyes had a system he can't implement it!
He has to resort to a deep seated team (because of the reasons provided) that when transitions to attack, they have have a slow counter attack and can't cross the ball when we do get near the box.
His style of play can be implemented until he gets the right players, until then his plan B to sit back is not working because of the reasons I told you. So there is not much hope but to hope for the best.
I am surprised no one has given this a thought.
P.S.
Sultan is the man.
Some people always find it surprising that no one have had the same ideas.
There's usually a reason behind it.
I love how the "Moyes is the messiah group" keeps wanking and sucking each other off to the idea that we're playing this way because we have to, poor old Moyes was forced to do so because of the unlimited amount of rubbish players in the team. We're sitting back because we have to, we don't have a good enough midfield or defence to play the way Moyes wants.
Then why, why for the love of god, is the Goblin fielding Cleverley next to Michael Carrick in centre midfield, to enhance the rubbishness. Why, is he opting for a tactic that has not worked at all, with underperformers like Young and Valencia. Why did he allow Wayne Rooney to generally play deeper than Cleverley against Olympiakos.
The supposed theory that he's looking to play it safe. We haven't been as shite defensively since we had to play Milan with all our CB's out with injuries. We're as fragile as it gets. Even Crystal Palace looked dangerous when they finally bothered to leave their own half
I'll tell you why, because he's out of his Everton comfort zone and he doesn't have a clucking idea of what to do. He's at a job which comes with high demands, and he can't hack it.
All those years at Everton, same boring shite.
Would like to play like Bayern did last season.
I would like to have my balls licked by Jennifer Aniston while i'm fecking Jennifer Lawrence from behind. It's about as likely to happen as Moyes turning us into Bayern season 12/13.
I don't know, my impression is that even with Bayern's squad plus Messi & Ronaldo, he'd struggle...
A little colourful, but very true.
Mourinho has an infinitely superior brand of football to Moyes. It is one of the worst legends ever made that Mourinho is a defensive manager. Record number of points in both England and Spain, record number of goals in Spain (something that even Pep's Barca couldn't have done). He even won the UCL with a poor Porto, scoring 17 goals in process.
I didn't miss Lukaku, he was your only good point in your post and he will be missed next season. The other ones you mentioned won't. Because, there is a very good chance that both Barry and Deloufeu will be there next season. City won't need Barry back and apparently Martinez is talking with Barca for the extension of Deulofeu because Barca won't need him next season and he is developing well. Why the need to mention Barkley (who anyway isn't better than Kagawa, Januzaj, Nani or Rooney in top form)? He was there last season, Moyes chose not to play him.
It is true that Martinez on the first year at Everton is getting more points than Moyes has ever done. It isn't quite a big difference with Moyes best year, but still, as we all know, managers need time
If he would have made such a big decline as Moyes did with United, Everton would have been already relagated.Goblin strategy 1: Watch your midfield get dominated for 70 mins, not delivering any decent passes to our two forwards who have had feck all to work with all game long. Sticks on two more strikers. Looked shellshocked when that improves feck all.
He doesn't know what he's doing.
If you aren't creating anything for the two forwards already on the pitch, adding two more isn't going to solve that issue.
He doesn't know what he's doing.
If you aren't creating anything for the two forwards already on the pitch, adding two more isn't going to solve that issue.
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