And questioning their mentality.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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That is why he brought in Fellaini with an over priced tag because of Woody messing up on the other targets and also bidding so low to Everton.
This then leads on to the summer transfer debacle of which I am not willing to go there.
I am just saying, if anyone said they know better than Moyes and Steve Round, please step forward.
I like to think I know a bit about tactics, but that doesn't mean your opinions in any less inferior or superior than mine.
But then to go on to say how tactically inept Moyes and and his staff are, is just plain stupid. No offence.
Fair enough, personally I find debating tactics a bit mundane but you cant argue with results. If moyes cant get this team to play good football or start winning then he is not the manager for us.
Stop blaming Eddie for Moyes' incompetence. Moyes didn't rate Thiago, dithered on Herrera because he didn't have extensive data on his iPad, didn't want Garay, keep chasing Baines and went for Coentrao at the last minute, didn't want Ozil but bought a same kind of player 6 months later.
So basically we're not allowed to criticise Moyes because we aren't football managers? Assuming you're not sarcastic.
I know, I know...
But, because I am big hearted, I would give Moyes until Christmas to find his way and bring in his own players. I am going to post a piece about this. Get ready to take your guns out.
You'd never know, he hides it so well.
And you forgot De Rossi who apparently was an easy signing as long as we would have paid 20m within Roma's deadline.
Yes De Rossi too. Yet people always seem to blame poor Woowar who's a good boy and filled the club's coffer with endless sponsorship joy; while David gets a clean chit for dithering all summer.
Definitely not, Moyes should be prone to criticism and should not be give a free ride, especially with the results we have.
All I am saying is, you can't disregard a manager of his calibre. Relativity that is.
Hey, some poster, do you still not get how utterly irrelevant that is to posting on a forum on the internets?
It's quite possible that Moyes didn't want to play Young either but just didn't rate the alternatives at all highly. People are saying that his claims about needing to strengthen to challenge for the CL are just a way of taking some of the criticism off his back and lowering expectations and all that, but maybe it is just his honest assessment of the players at his disposal. Some of the more experienced players have let their standards drop, we already had a team that was based around wingplay without the necessary quality out wide for it to be really effective and the midfield options are obviously substandard so it could just be that he thinks the squad isn't all that.
He added Mata because the wide players weren't up to much and possibly to change the system and style of play. He tried to add two big money midfielders to deal with the midfield issues. The success of the transfer strategy so far and how much he should be blamed for that is up for debate but he did try to aaddress these areas and we did pay big money so it tells you he does think this team needs more quality. That in itself tells you he isn't satisfied with the players at his disposal.
I think this is yet another misguided criticism of Moyes and for the life of me I can't figure out why people feel the need to invent unfair/inaccurate criticisms when there's plenty of real, tangible criticisms to aim at him as it is. I reckon it's just because some people spend so much time criticising Moyes that just get bored of saying the same stuff. So then they just complain about other stuff and find some loose link to Moyes to blame it on him. About half of the criticism I've read in this thread recently can be described that way and it makes any discussion about Moyes so tiresome. Of course people may say that if I don't like reading it then I can just ignore the thread but that's not true. It seeps into all other discussions. Within two posts in a thread about Simeone you have similarly absurd criticisms popping up. It's so tedious.
I can't count how many times when the 'internet' was wrong. So many times this forum had gone into meltdown when Fergie used Giggs/Young/Welbeck etc in different position, yet the end result was mostly positive.
Again, I am not saying follow blindly.
Finally, I thought I was alone.
By that logic, no one should ever read a Michelin guide on restaurants...
Do you? If not, the same applies to you doesn't it?
Oh my....
Can you please you look back at my replies for my explanation instead of giving knee-jerk responses?
You've described it in a really crude way, but it's not a bad reflection of what's been happening when we are chasing a game. I'm convinced its because he got criticised for making negative substitutions early on here so now tries overly hard to be seen as attacking. Sometimes were crying out for more stability in the middle to get a grip of the game so we can create something, i.e. adding a third CM but instead we take one of our two off and throw on another striker.
in which case you might want to keep your pitchfork nicely sharpened ready for next weekend.
yanuzay is Moyes' username.
Some people just can't be bothered getting involved in the inane, mundane, repetitive arguments that permeate the discussion about Moyes.
I think I will follow your path.
I think that is a fair summation.
So many times? You joined this place a few months back!
And of course supporters get it wrong loads of times which is fine because they're not the ones getting paid to do a job. But managers do get things wrong too, and that's why fans discuss. If managers got everything right, there'd be no point to us having any discussions about managers here pr anywhere else, at all.
Also when you say " manager knows best", that is actually a caw of telling people to blindly follow.
Good post, mate. I'm probably optimistic to a fault in relation to our club, but I've found myself having absolutely no desire to engage in a debate surrounding Moyes on this site nowadays.
The (not always, mind you) misguided criticisms are just barmy.
Also I have to add that getting a positive result or winning a title doesn't mean every decision on route was the correct one.
Fergie says to give him time.
Explain this to me, David Moyes has the ability to create a better version of Everton. Surely that would be a team that achieves top four but not really one that could go on to be glorious.
What does Ferguson see in David Moyes that we don't?
Explain this to me, David Moyes has the ability to create a better version of Everton. Surely that would be a team that achieves top four but not really one that could go on to be glorious.
What does Ferguson see in David Moyes that we don't?
Please do.
His scottish dourness and him growing up in a good family.
It's actually a little funny the reasons he put in his book on why he picked him. All stuff that has nothing to do with football really.
99% of fans respected Fergie's decision initially. If you look back the announcement on this forum, most of us didn't want Moyes but we respected Fergie's call. It looking increasing evident though that its been the wrong call, and lets be honest - for all of Fergie's greatness, he's made some appalling decisions in recruitment. Need I also remind you that he considered Sven Goran Eriksson and Martin O'Neil adequate replacements for him.
This seems to be somewhat of a misconception. United have sacked managers who they've deemed to be not good enough- see McGuiness, Sexton and Atkison. Also sacking Moyes doesn't put us up there with the circus antics of the clubs you've mentioned - Madrid have sacked managers after they've won the league, Chelsea have sacked managers for finishing second despite doing the double the season before. We would be sacking a manage who's taken us from convincing champions to midtable, its hardly the same. I'd imagine that the better run elite clubs in Europe such as Munich, Arsenal and Barcelona would have probably sacked him too.
What if the new manager doesn't want the players Moyes has bought? What if he wants to build a team in his image but the Glazers wont give him the cash because Moyes has spunked it all on his players? See the problem with giving Moyes more time is that it could do more damage to this club, irreversible damage. And furthermore, what has he done to deserve all this time? Where are the signs that he's taking us somewhere? At least with Rodgers last season you could see he was cultivating a progressive style of play with Liverpool last season which they're reaping the rewards for now. With Moyes its constant regression with no light at the end.
Other fans are laughing at us and are actually mystified as to why we're persisting with him. And its hard to be proud of this mythical 'United way' when we're hoofballing our way into midtable obscurity.
What people say in books and what people think aren't always the same. Maybe he just didn't have much interest in the book and put very little thought into what was said, safe in the knowledge it would do what it was intended to do regardless of the content.
Due to his inability to get the most out of the current team and convince current players to stay the solution would be:
Buy two left backs because he doesn't trust Buttner and Evra will probably leave.
Buy a first choice right back and put Rafael second choice since Rafael doesn't suit his system.
Lose Vidic and Ferdinand and probably he'll buy two CBs as I get the feeling Smalling and Evans are not the standard he wants. He will probably keep them on though.
Buy a wide right player to be second to Mata unless he develops Zaha next season.
First choice LW and Januzaj can be second to develop.
Sell Kagawa, Valencia and Young.
Sell Cleverley, Giggs will retire. Carrick might stay on but it doesn't look like he rates Moyes so he could leave requiring three central midfielders.
Keep Rooney, sell hernandez, keep Welbeck and then either sell RVP or put him in the reserves or force him to play.
If he sells RVP it makes sense to put Mata in behind Rooney and buy another RW.
We're looking at losing at least 11 players and bringing in about 10 or 11 players too.
Surely it would be easier to get a manager that could convince the likes of Evra and even Vidic to stay, get the most out of Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Kagawa, Herenandez etc.
We should really just sell Valencia and Young, even Cleverley has a squad role.
Buy two left backs because he doesn't trust Buttner and Evra will probably leave.
Buy a first choice right back and put Rafael second choice since Rafael doesn't suit his system.
Lose Vidic and Ferdinand and probably he'll buy two CBs as I get the feeling Smalling and Evans are not the standard he wants. He will probably keep them on though.
Buy a wide right player to be second to Mata unless he develops Zaha next season.
First choice LW and Januzaj can be second to develop.
Sell Kagawa, Valencia and Young.
Sell Cleverley, Giggs will retire. Carrick might stay on but it doesn't look like he rates Moyes so he could leave requiring three central midfielders.
Keep Rooney, sell hernandez, keep Welbeck and then either sell RVP or put him in the reserves or force him to play.
If he sells RVP it makes sense to put Mata in behind Rooney and buy another RW.
We're looking at losing at least 11 players and bringing in about 10 or 11 players too.
Surely it would be easier to get a manager that could convince the likes of Evra and even Vidic to stay, get the most out of Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans, Kagawa, Herenandez etc.
We should really just sell Valencia and Young, even Cleverley has a squad role.
That's one hell of a "you can never know these things." I don't think you really believe that either.
Did he? I do know that he provided a reference for Alex McLeish.
Hmm I think its more realistic than to believe Ferguson hired Moyes because he was Scottish. He clearly thinks that Moyes is a good manager and did a good job at Everton.
Obviously yes, but that part just seemed a little strange. He could have put stuff like Moyes always wanting to integrate youth as much as possible, or commented on playing style that they had (not that I particularly enjoyed watching Everton's style, but seeing as 2 or 3 people on here seem intent on telling me they were fantastic to watch last season...). Regardless of if its a book or not, it'll influence the opinions of lots of people simply because its coming from him, so he definitely could have used the opportunity to say stuff about him football wise.
I just can't help but feel at this moment in time, we are sticking with him, and Fergie is still backing him partly out of Sir Alex's stubbornness which was great to have as a manager like him (not so much as a director), and then mostly just so we can say we're different. We're just waiting for the 1.5 year period goes where there is absolutely no excuses left and then we can sack him and say we gave him a chance. It's just wrong IMO.
Why do we have to put up with 1.5 years of him when he's been as bad as possible so far, and then we're willing to give him another 200m to add to a title winning squad just in the hope he can squeeze out a top 4 spot. If it were any other top manager in charge, then we'd be looking to compete for everything and up there with Bayern, Madrid and Barca as the best teams in the world. But since Moyes is here, we'll have a world class squad but a manager who is only capable of getting 4th out of it, while playing pretty shit football.
That's quite an assumption to be fair
Yeah obviously there was more to it then that. However, do you think Moyes would be our manager if he wasn't Scottish or friends with Fergie? I genuinely don't think he would have been picked. Obviously it wasn't THE reason he was picked, but I can't imagine Sir Alex appointing Moyes if he wasn't.
Oh cmon, man. You're playing devil's advocate here and you know it.
Why, on Earth, would Fergie not list at least one valid footballing reason for picking Moyes when given the opportunity to, but still bother making up a couple of superfluous reasons that all somehow manage to match Fergies personality (Scottish nationalist, sentimental, gambler)? Why bother saying the Scottish comments if he could've given a valid, albeit brief, footballing reason that held it's own?
I'm sure I've seen you starting a thread that focussed on this very valid point itself?
I´m just going to concentrate on the bold here:
How has he not be given a chance? He had eight months, two transfer windows and around 40 games to make an impression. This is more than enough to judge him as a manager.
Your results are dissapointing to say it kindly. Your set up is predictable and static. Your overall approach is way too cautios and negative, which led you to lose your once famous mentality edge over other teams. The squad is devoid of confidence. He received over 70 Mil. € (I have seen whole successful squads built on that kind of money), but the actual problems in the squad are not solved. You still lack an creative midfielder to make your game less reliant on width and crossing and you still have no proper back ups for both fullback positions, which is mindblowing for a team with a 200+Mil.€ wage roll.
The worst and most worrying thing is that they are no signs of development and progression. Why in the world would any board on the planet give a guy a huge amount of money to build "his team" when he can´t handle the current one, which is capable of way more than it shows right now? Rebuilding a squad is not some previlidge of a coach, it is something that should be earned by making the given teams perform on an acceptable level. Any great architect (Guardiola, Klopp, Simeone, etc.) had to first and foremost show that they can make the most of the initial teams until they were trusted with investions.
Giving Moyes a huge amount of money to build "his team" could lay some serious damage on the club, because it is likely to turn out to be a waste of money and time.
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