Moyes So Far!

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Mauzindark said:
Pff. That's that then. All the dreams have been squashed. He's going nowhere anytime soon. :(
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I don't think that it means anything. Ferguson was always going to back Moyes, everybody knew it. The only hopes are Glazers overruling Fergie (with potential to SAF either resigning or 'leaving in a mutual agreement' aka getting sacked, a full scale mutiny from players or Old Trafford turning on him. I think that these are sorted on the probability of each of those happening. And that probability likely will increase if we lost (or get humiliated) by both Liverpool and City and in process getting eleminated by Olympiacos.

We'll see what will happen. Personally I would be delighted with each of those options.

It is also very interesting the meaning of SAF statement. Is it simply backing Moyes, or something more, like a warning against the players and/or the Glazers (if they are considering his sack).
 
What would it take for Moyes to really "turn" things around (improve performances and win matches) between now and the end of the season ? I just can't see it happening. He should be sacked or have the courage to step down by mutual financial consent, no one will think less of him if he does that as the job is just too much for him and the criticism can't possibly be worse.
 
kouroux said:
What would it take for Moyes to really "turn" things around (improve performances and win matches) between now and the end of the season ? I just can't see it happening. He should be sacked or have the courage to step down by mutual financial consent, no one will think less of him if he does that as the job is just too much for him and the criticism can't possibly be worse.
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From a personal point of view, I'd like to see him field a consistent line-up with a defined sense of style and be braver and more adventurous in selections and game plan. If he's to see another season at least give fans a view of a better future prior to refreshing the current squad in the summer would at least give people things to look forward to. I don't think even his stronger advocates would tolerate too many more Fulham/Olympiakos type debacles.
 
Empire said:
We'll see what will happen. Personally I would be delighted with each of those options.
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It's not correct for fans to wish/hope for consequences or scenarios which affect the club badly even if your intentions are good.
 
Mauzindark said:
Agreed. Some are readily blaming players who have achieved so much for us while backing Moyes to no end when he's done nothing to warrant the levels of support he's getting among his worshippers. Although there's been a sea change since the Olympiakos match and more people are coming to the realisation that he's not up for it.
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People are only blaming the same lot of players who have been criticised for the last few seasons, no one has turned on the good players. People are just being precious that some dare insinuate our problems go beyond the manager. How many people are actually saying he's the best man for the job? There's just some valid excuses that's all.

Every valid criticism last season is now being seen as a defence of Moyes for some reason when actually its the opposite, he should have fixed them.

Ferdinand a liability - Moyes gave him a chance and it cost us
Evra struggling - Didn't sign a back up, Buttner and Evra cost us
Over reliance on Carrick - Only signed one mid, imagine if Fletcher hadn't come back!
Midfield can't cope with pressing - Signed another slow midfielder
Over reliance on RvP - Didn't add any goal scoring midfielders, his injuries cost us 4th
No back up for Rafael - No one signed, Smalling cost us.
Cleverly can't be relied upon - Only one mid signed

Unless you think RvP and Rafael being fit all season wouldn't have made a huge difference to our season then you have to admit Moyes took over a team with major weaknesses in and our issues have just been transferred from Fergie. I'd say we'd have finished 3rd/4th last season with the same injuries, rest of the difference is on Moyes and the post-fergie effect.

My gripe is he decided to see how it went first rather than fixing these things in the summer. He talks the talk on signings to turn us around but we need action.
 
Smores said:
People are only blaming the same lot of players who have been criticised for the last few seasons, no one has turned on the good players. People are just being precious that some dare insinuate our problems go beyond the manager. How many people are actually saying he's the best man for the job? There's just some valid excuses that's all.

Every valid criticism last season is now being seen as a defence of Moyes for some reason when actually its the opposite, he should have fixed them.

Ferdinand a liability - Moyes gave him a chance and it cost us
Evra struggling - Didn't sign a back up, Buttner and Evra cost us
Over reliance on Carrick - Only signed one mid, imagine if Fletcher hadn't come back!
Midfield can't cope with pressing - Signed another slow midfielder
Over reliance on RvP - Didn't add any goal scoring midfielders, his injuries cost us 4th
No back up for Rafael - No one signed, Smalling cost us.
Cleverly can't be relied upon - Only one mid signed

Unless you think RvP and Rafael being fit all season wouldn't have made a huge difference to our season then you have to admit Moyes took over a team with major weaknesses in and our issues have just been transferred from Fergie. I'd say we'd have finished 3rd/4th last season with the same injuries, rest of the difference is on Moyes and the post-fergie effect.

My gripe is he decided to see how it went first rather than fixing these things in the summer. He talks the talk on signings to turn us around but we need action.
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A lot of issues were there to be seen by anyone, when he said he had to learn about the club and the players, I never thought he meant it so literally. Like this season has been a discovery for him about everything that is wrong at Utd whereas anyone with a brain have mentioned the elements in your posts last season already.
 
Smores said:
My gripe is he decided to see how it went first rather than fixing these things in the summer. He talks the talk on signings to turn us around but we need action.
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This is what frustrates me to no end. It just reeks of incompetence. The man has been a Premier League manager for a decade. Surely he must know who the weaker performers of the reigning champions are. Even we, non-professionals can list the lesser members of rival squads. Chelsea has Mikel, Torres, Cole, Ba; City has Garcia, Rodwell, Boyata; Arse has Monreal, Bendtner, Jenkinson. It's not that hard really. So why not come in and offload the garbage from the team. What good could come from keeping them on, and further playing them in some big matches - Young, Cleverley, Valencia. He's wasted this season playing dross week in week out. Next season he'll sign some players and say the poor performances are due to transition - the new players are settling in. That's 2 years of readymade excuses in an age where results matter most and richer clubs are overtaking us all over Europe. He's just too cumbersome and indecisive to be a top level manager.
 
Kostur said:
No, some of us are just looking realistically at it and not thinking that 'pls sack moyes' threads on a forum will make anything happen and that our players - whether they like it or not - have to perform to their best because they're not contracted to Moyes Boys FC but Manchester United and they're not the ones to pick the manager.

Plus I think that the whole theory of 'they're underperforming to get moyes sacked' is bullshit at it's best at the very moment, it's just wishful thinking from people.
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Shall we hold hands and sing camp fire songs for the remainder of the season? It's a forum Kostur, people are free to discuss what they like.

I also think your second point in the first paragraph is extremely flawed. The management are the ones responsible for enforcing that our players play at their best, it's their job to motivate them, to keep them in form and to make changes when they see fit. The players are under performing not because they want to get Moyes sacked but because of Moyes management.
 
kouroux said:
A lot of issues were there to be seen by anyone, when he said he had to learn about the club and the players, I never thought he meant it so literally. Like this season has been a discovery for him about everything that is wrong at Utd whereas anyone with a brain have mentioned the elements in your posts last season already.
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Indeed, it makes me wonder whether Fergie was even aware of these weaknesses and communicated them to Moyes or whether Moyes just ignored the advice and wanted to make his own decisions on the team. He's certainly followed the Fergie blueprint but he's done it almost to extremes and then had our weaknesses come to the fore.

Even if he fixes us in the summer, which wouldn't be difficult, his time with us has been tarnished by this unnecessary wasted season. Even signing Cabaye would have given us better passing in midfield, goals and would have released Jones to cover Rafael instead of Smalling.

He must know he has time as he hasn't been in a rush to do anything. Leaving Januzaj out the other day is the perfect example, he rested a young player putting his long term development ahead of a better result. Was a stupid thing to do but if he was under pressure he'd never have done that.
 
Fergie needs to leave his ego at the door and do what he has done for the best part of 30 years, which is have the best interest of the club at heart.

Backing Moyes now does not and will not alter the fact that he appointed the wrong man for the job.
 
Mauzindark said:
This is what frustrates me to no end. It just reeks of incompetence. The man has been a Premier League manager for a decade. Surely he must know who the weaker performers of the reigning champions are.
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Well, in September, he still talked about the things Chicharito does - like his movement - in terms of 'people tell me about that'. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.

I'll say it again - stepping into Fergie's shoes would have been massive for any manager. For one who never worked at a club of this size before and has tons to learn just about this level of football... It's a huge leap.
 
Amir said:
Well, in September, he still talked about the things Chicharito does - like his movement - in terms of 'people tell me about that'. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now.
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Forget September man, even in the Dubai trip he was talking nonsense and I can quote :

"It was great that we had some time together with the players - the first time I've really had the chance to have a few days with the lads."

This after he's been manager for 7 months. He works with them daily and this is "the first time I've really had the chance to have a few days with the lads."

What happens if he signs player in the summer and "people keep telling" him how good they are till season end. God help us ! :lol:
 
The problem we have is that if we sack Moyes now, that sends out a message that if someone performs very poorly in their role at our club, we get rid of them.

On the other hand, if we keep him around until literally everyone in the world hates him except his own children, that will truly strike fear into whoever becomes our manager in the future, which will prevent them from ever losing a match.
 
A mate asked me last night did I want a David Moyes.....

I asked what was a David Moyes..... He says a Scotch on the rocks

Boom boom
 
Silent_Running said:
The problem we have is that if we sack Moyes now, that sends out a message that if someone performs very poorly in their role at our club, we get rid of them.
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MikeUpNorth said:
That's a good message to send out.
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Exactly. You say that as if it's a bad thing. What we're seeing now from Manchester United is not acceptable. Maybe back in the day it was, but definitely not now.
 
It definitely feels like there is a perfect storm forming over Moyes now. I literally cannot see him surviving past next few games.....simply because the players will sense this is their chance to get rid.
 
Mauzindark said:
Forget September man, even in the Dubai trip he was talking nonsense and I can quote :

"It was great that we had some time together with the players - the first time I've really had the chance to have a few days with the lads."

This after he's been manager for 7 months. He works with them daily and this is "the first time I've really had the chance to have a few days with the lads."

What happens if he signs player in the summer and "people keep telling" him how good they are till season end. God help us ! :lol:
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Typical negative spin on an innocent comment. Basically in Dubai it was just the squad with no distractions, all staying in the same location so far easier to bond with the team in a more relaxed environment.
 
Striker10 said:
Fellaini has been injured and mata was only bought late Jan so saying a competent manager 'after spending 65m' is complete nonsense. Anyone can distort things to have a go. The fact is experienced defenders have made mistakes that have cost us points. One or both won't be here next season. We've had Rooney and Van Persie missing for large chunks of the season. It's very hard to break a pattern. One year we couldn't win away from home to save our lives and that was under Sir Alex. Next season it was corrected.

Your talking on behalf of the players. Let me tell you something: If they DID take offence, then they're too precious. Simple as that. A World Class player would rise above it and prove everyone wrong, wouldn't they?..

No one wants a team full of people looking for an excuse to abuse the position of playing week in week out. No players want to down tools so that they find themselves on the bench the following week. You see rare occasions but they don't WANT to do that. The truth is other clubs showed ambition where as we talked ambition at a time when we REALLY needed to show it with Sir Alex etc retiring.

Our summers bumblings helped Liverpool. Mentally they were on the up with him retiring but we've helped these teams even more. If you want to beat teams in the tunnel, they have to fear you and so as a club we need to be impressive in the summer
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Agree with that totally.

Too many people want to lay this solely at Moyes door - presumably because they hope he can be replaced and normal service can be resumed.

A good part of what we're seeing now is a culmination of under investment in the squad and Fergie's magic papering over the cracks for a number of years and raising expectations.

We've allowed top players to leave and not be suitably replaced in key areas over a number of years, while age catches up with a number if genuinely class players.

The fact that owners who usually spend as little as they can are making substantial money available tells you a lot.

That isn't to say that Moyes takes no blame, but you need to look at the context of the situation.
 
datura said:
And if they are success hungry you think they wouldn't want to win every game even if they don't like the manager?
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Exactly. But it's the manager's job to make sure, if a player isn't performing that he's either dropped , or told to improve. Neither have happened. The players aren't playing well because they don't want to, it's because they're completely bereft of confidence.
 
Crackers said:
Exactly. But it's the manager's job to make sure, if a player isn't performing that he's either dropped , or told to improve. Neither have happened. The players aren't playing well because they don't want to, it's because they're completely bereft of confidence.
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Agreed, and why suggesting that the players will try to get the manager sacked by losing games is completely idiotic.
 
datura said:
Frankly it was the most stupid comment I've read for a while. You are effectively accusing the players of a complete disregard for professionalism and integrity.

If any of them are seriously thinking that way they should be chucked out of the club.
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Still does not give you any right to respond like that. By all means disagree.

You actually believe all our players are working to their capacity? There isn't a cats chance in hell that they are. It wouldn't be the first time - we've seen it at plenty of clubs in the past.
 
datura said:
Agreed, and why suggesting that the players will try to get the manager sacked by losing games is completely idiotic.
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I'm not suggesting that, and I don't think he was either. If he is, then I'm on your side. Losing game on purpose is completely unprofessional.
 
kouroux said:
What would it take for Moyes to really "turn" things around (improve performances and win matches) between now and the end of the season ? I just can't see it happening. He should be sacked or have the courage to step down by mutual financial consent, no one will think less of him if he does that as the job is just too much for him and the criticism can't possibly be worse.
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Well I thought the Palace game could have been a turning point, we played Adnan, Rooney and Mata just behind RvP and moved away from that awful 4-4-2 he's insistent on playing. Days later he's back to the horrible old style with Young and Valencia on the wings, I generally think he's fecking clueless.
 
datura said:
Agreed, and why suggesting that the players will try to get the manager sacked by losing games is completely idiotic.
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Maybe my post has not come across correctly - I am not saying they will intentionally lose but do I believe they are going to work their arse off to get us a victory? For some of the players, the genuine answer is no.

Moyes has lost a portion of that squad - by virtue he will not get out of them their full capacity. That's what I'm saying
 
LonelyFire said:
Maybe my post has not come across correctly - I am not saying they will intentionally lose but do I believe they are going to work their arse off to get us a victory? For some of the players, the genuine answer is no.
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I agree with this @datura. By no means would they go out to purposely lose a game, but I can see LonelyFire's point of view. The team is bereft of confidence and completely unmotivated. It wouldn't be a stretch to think some of them aren't 100% motivated to win.
 
LonelyFire said:
Still does not give you any right to respond like that. By all means disagree.

You actually believe all our players are working to their capacity? There isn't a cats chance in hell that they are. It wouldn't be the first time - we've seen it at plenty of clubs in the past.
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Lack of confidence and dissatisfaction don't mean that they are going to trying to lose and get the manager sacked. I have all the right as it's ok to criticise but you've gone far further then that.
 
Crackers said:
I agree with this @datura. By no means would they go out to purposely lose a game, but I can see LonelyFire's point of view. The team is bereft of confidence and completely unmotivated. It wouldn't be a stretch to think some of them aren't 100% motivated to win.
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Thank you. All I'm saying is its natural when there is a breakdown with a manager and coach that your effort levels are not the same as it is when you have a healthy relationship with said manager/coach.

I do not think its controversial to suggest we have players in our squad not giving their all for the manager.
 
datura said:
Lack of confidence and dissatisfaction don't mean that they are going to trying to lose and get the manager sacked. I have all the right as it's ok to criticise but you've gone far further then that.
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So you have a right to call me an idiot? Ok.

I am not meaning they will intentionally lose the game - if that's how it's come across I am not saying that. I am saying that we have players who do not want Moyes in charge, it is not a huge leap to suggest their effort levels are reflective of their relationship with Moyes.
 
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