Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's fitness intensity and shit like that isn't it? And nullifying the opposition. Tim Howard gave an interview recently about how fun it is working with Martinez because he focuses on how they should play rather than stopping others.

From an offensive standpoint, I genuinely think he's tactically barren.
 
Mersault said:
Last night was perhaps the same level of performance as we gave against Ajax once we'd been relegated to the Europa knock-outs. That was some of the worst football televised. And it preceded our absolute schooling by Bilbao. That was 2011-2012 season.

I'm not defending Moyes, as he's not got anything going for him. But I think as a club we lack ambition, the board lacks ambition. Appointing a manager who could improve us would have signaled that.

I think SAF was an absolutely outrageously brilliant manager. In almost every aspect. Not tactics and style though. That's the obvious improvement we could have made in appointing a new manager.
Click to expand...
It's like the board were quite happy to take top 4 for a couple of years, which I would be as well tbh. However that is not happening and if we continue at this rate won't happen for a while. Fans are not that bothered about winning trophies if the squad was rebuilt and we have an attractive style of football. The football is abysmal.

They should make that statue of SAF twice as big as we now appreciate that he is a colossus.
 
I honestly think all season long he has just assumed things would sort themselves out, results would pick up without any intervention or trying something new. If he just sticks to the rigid 4-4-2 and passing the ball to the wings we'll get the results. Its like last night it suddenly dawned on him maybe its not working. Anytime before when things haven't gone well he's just stood there on the touchline yelling "C'mon" to a few players, he doesn't make any real tactical changes or pick up on weaknesses or try and vary things. I think he genuinely believes its entirely down to bad luck.
 
Agree with the sentiment in the last few pages of the thread. I would not be averse to giving him time to turn things around except he continues to make the same stupid mistakes for no good reason and I don't have confidence in his judgement or man-management of players to trust him to rebuild.
 
RedRover said:
The Club have let him down badly - and this season is wasted. If players had come in in the summer and he couldnt get results it becomes easier to actually judge him and move on if its not going well. As it stands there is far too much up in the air to make that call - which then makes it more diffuclt if they have to move on.
Click to expand...

The club have let him down? Really?

The club let him replace the coaching team with his own people. Let him choose his own transfer targets. Allowed him to dally and procrastinate so long on deadline day that even an agreed loan deal failed. Allowed him to get rid of his backup fullback.

If anything the club has given him too much rope and he's spent the last 6 months hanging himself with it.
 
kouroux said:
Shouldn't the general crossing ability of the team improve then :lol: ? Who has improved at it this season when you think about it ?
Click to expand...

Valencia stays back every day after training and practices crossing. I'd pay to watch that just to see what the heck is going on.
 
Mockney said:
It's fitness intensity and shit like that isn't it? And nullifying the opposition. Tim Howard gave an interview recently about how fun it is working with Martinez because he focuses on how they should play rather than stopping others.

From an offensive standpoint, I genuinely think he's tactically barren.
Click to expand...

Which are the hallmarks of the manager most people think should have got the job instead of Moyes.

If the players were fired up and playing to the best of their abilities I don't think anyone would care about tactics because we'd be winning games.

The problem is obviously far more complex than Moyes sitting our attacking players down together and saying "right, here's the plan... are any of you any good at crossing?"
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Which are the hallmarks of the manager most people think should have got the job instead of Moyes.
Click to expand...

He seems to be able to actually do it.

Pogue Mahone said:
If the players were fired up and playing to the best of their abilities I don't think anyone would care about tactics because we'd be winning games.
Click to expand...

Like we didn't last season? Slow motion zombie passing et al.

I agree regarding Moyes though. I think the vast majority have bent over backwards to accommodate him. Win and the play wouldn't matter so much, but also play well, and the winning wouldn't matter so much. Both would've worked. The fact he's done neither is the problem.
 
Last edited:
There are two United fans arguing on Talksport at the moment. The guy thinks he should go and a lady called Jenny thinks we should give him time and buy his own players and give him a year with them.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Which are the hallmarks of the manager most people think should have got the job instead of Moyes.

If the players were fired up and playing to the best of their abilities I don't think anyone would care about tactics because we'd be winning games.

The problem is obviously far more complex than Moyes sitting our attacking players down together and saying "right, here's the plan... are any of you any good at crossing?"
Click to expand...
How many times does Mourinho do it each season? Does he try to make thing difficult for Newcastle at home? (Moyes quote!)
 
MrMarcello said:
Strootman just to name one. For half that wage and even less than Screech's transfer fee.
Click to expand...


Well I think we could have got Gundogan or another of the top 5-10 CMs on the planet for £68 million and £300k a week. Strootman would have been covered by Fellaini's fee and a week of Rooney's wages...
 
RedRover said:
Perhaps it isnt obvious what he's trying to do, or the style he wants to play. Perhaps he needs to know what he's going to have long term before he can make those decisions? His style seems dependant as it stands on what Fergie used to try to do - to break quickly and with width. It isnt working but as it is its difficult to see what sort of style they can play given the players we have and the way they are used to playing.

The uncertainty is a major issue for me. A new manager comes into the club knowing that he needs a couple of quality players in midfield and doesnt get them. He then has to work with what he has and also try to plan who he can get in the next window and think about what he can do if he gets player "x" or "y". Its hard to have a definite style of play when you know umpteen players are moving on and umpteen others coming in.

As it stands its difficult to judge Moyes (or any manager) who has taken over a squad that we all know lacks in certain areas. Comparing any manager to Fergie's achievements last year isnt fair, nor does it take into account what the other sides have done. Essentially Moyes has come in, told everyone he needs players, then didnt get them. he might not be up to the job, but her certainly isnt going to be when he doesn't get what he needs and was promised.

The Club have let him down badly - and this season is wasted. If players had come in in the summer and he couldnt get results it becomes easier to actually judge him and move on if its not going well. As it stands there is far too much up in the air to make that call - which then makes it more diffuclt if they have to move on.

The club have been naive for years in not investing in the saud, then made massive errors last summer in the way they conducted their transfer business - hardly attractive to any future manager, even if Moyes does get the push - "new manager comes in, not given what he's promised, sacked after less than a year for poor results" - hardly the way a sensible club is ran.

At the end of the day Moyes might prove to be out of his depth - but for me you cant judge any manager when he hasnt had the backing he clearly needs. As it is he seems to be targetting very good players of the level required which indicates he is ambitious and has plans for the future. If those players come in and he doent do it then he should be quickly removed, but if the players are top class that leaves a solid base for a new manage anyway.
Click to expand...

All right, let's look at another manager who took over a team last July that is lacking in certain areas. Jose Mourinho's Chelsea doesn't have any effective strikers and an uninspiring midfield--still, it's better than our midfield. He's come in and worked with what he has and is sitting top of the league. Obviously, it's difficult to compare Moyes to Mourinho considering one is a better manager by several orders of magnitude.

David Moyes came in, complained about what we had, and then did nothing about it except buy a player who fits right in. He's got himself to blame for the lack of quality midfielders. He had the whole summer to sign players but kept throwing pennies at Barcelona for a player who didn't want to leave while pissing about with another potential signing before paying over the odds for a mediocre player.

This team is far better than the 6th place it sits in the league. It should be pushing for the title. Any quality manager could have come in and done better than Moyes has. Thus far, his achievement of the season is beating Arsenal in a game that we were largely on the back foot. Aside from that, he's managed to lose an impressive number of games to poor sides home and away while progressively getting worse.
 
Sir Matt said:
All right, let's look at another manager who took over a team last July that is lacking in certain areas. Jose Mourinho's Chelsea doesn't have any effective strikers and an uninspiring midfield--still, it's better than our midfield. He's come in and worked with what he has and is sitting top of the league. Obviously, it's difficult to compare Moyes to Mourinho considering one is a better manager by several orders of magnitude.

David Moyes came in, complained about what we had, and then did nothing about it except buy a player who fits right in. He's got himself to blame for the lack of quality midfielders. He had the whole summer to sign players but kept throwing pennies at Barcelona for a player who didn't want to leave while pissing about with another potential signing before paying over the odds for a mediocre player.

This team is far better than the 6th place it sits in the league. It should be pushing for the title. Any quality manager could have come in and done better than Moyes has. Thus far, his achievement of the season is beating Arsenal in a game that we were largely on the back foot. Aside from that, he's managed to lose an impressive number of games to poor sides home and away while progressively getting worse.
Click to expand...

Spot on.
 
Cal? said:
How many times does Mourinho do it each season? Does he try to make thing difficult for Newcastle at home? (Moyes quote!)
Click to expand...
This year he did it two times (against us and Arsenal away).

Last year he did it a grand total of zero times.

The year before it he did it again zero times.

On the first year he tried to make it hard for Barca in all games bar the Copa Del Rey (4 times).

So, around 6 times in four years. Not a worse record than our own Sir Alex. He does what every manager (bar Pep Guardiola) in difficult away games from home. When he thinks that the other team is better, he tried to make hard for them and win a point away. Which is one or two times for year.

Compare it to trying to make hard for opponents in almost every game regardless of the other team quality and regardless if the game is home or away.
 
Mockney said:
He seems to be able to actually do it.
Click to expand...

As did Moyes. With a squad of his own creation.


Like we didn't last season? Slow motion zombie passing et al.

I agree regarding Moyes though. I think the vast majority have bent over backwards to accommodate him. Win and the play wouldn't matter so much, but also play well, and the winning wouldn't matter so much. Both would've worked. The fact he's done neither is the problem.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong. People would whine regardless. The fact that so many belly-ached throughout a period of unprecedented success means this is pretty much guaranteed until the end of time.

I just mean that there wouldn't be such an overwhelming consensus about our approach being negative if we were winning games. A dozen or so ground out one nil victories and most of us would be happy as pigs in shit.

Anyway, lest I get the usual frothing loons mashing keyboards and wailing about "Moyes apologists" I should, of course, agree with you that neither results nor performances have been acceptable so far. The latter being the most worrying issue.
 
 
Pogue Mahone said:
As did Moyes. With a squad of his own creation.
Click to expand...

Did he though? IT for that squad, was about where we are now. Upper mid-table. A lot of these results wouldn't have been that awful for Everton. Moyes makes it tough for Newcastle at home. Mourinho does it at City/Barca away.

Levels. Maybe managers really do have them.
 
Revan said:
This year he did it two times (against us and Arsenal away).

Last year he did it a grand total of zero times.

The year before it he did it again zero times.

On the first year he tried to make it hard for Barca in all games bar the Copa Del Rey (4 times).

So, around 6 times in four years. Not a worse record than our own Sir Alex. He does what every manager (bar Pep Guardiola) in difficult away games from home. When he thinks that the other team is better, he tried to make hard for them and win a point away. Which is one or two times for year.

Compare it to trying to make hard for opponents in almost every game regardless of the other team quality and regardless if the game is home or away.
Click to expand...
The day Moyes said we needed to make things difficult for Newcastle at OT was the day I wanted him sacked.
 
Mockney said:
Did he though? IT for that squad, was about where we are now. Upper mid-table. A lot of these results wouldn't have been that awful for Everton. Moyes makes it tough for Newcastle at home. Mourinho does it at City/Barca away.

Levels. Maybe managers really do have them.
Click to expand...

Everton's record at goodison against teams with vastly superior resources was decent. That's my point. Better than our own against City in recent seasons, for example.
 
Bear Attack said:
Truer words have never been spoken.
Click to expand...

Yes, and unfortunately a lot of the (mainly younger) fans have not fully appreciated that fact. Keeping United at the top is not easy as Moyes has shown. Getting them back to the top is even harder as two much more convincing candidates than Moyes (Sexton and Atkinson) showed. The management of the club (as in the board) has been guilty of hubris, and this has been reflected in cringeworthy optimism such as the "Chosen One" banner and the ever increasing list of excuses for Moyes from fans (at least until last night). I remain optimistic that the owners will see sense in May to keep their cash cow rolling.
 
Rumours on the New York stock exchange suggest that David Moyes will leave Manchester United by mutual consent.
This post - appearing on stock exchange news site forexlive - was made by Miles Eakers earlier today.
Eakers is the head of FX and runs SAVI Trading, the proprietary trading company.

1656173_10152122499784279_1934394548_n.png
 
Guy on Talksport now who has just come back from Greece and he said everyone there was fuming. They are the diehards and if they are turning he is in trouble. This guy has been to every game home and away for the last 20 years.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Everton's record at goodison against teams with vastly superior resources was decent. That's my point. Better than our own against City in recent seasons, for example.
Click to expand...

A lot of teams play well against big teams at home though. Mourinho came to our patch with Porto and "made it difficult for us"...Moyes's record against big teams away is well documented. However similar their regard for stifling the opposition, they're just on different levels at it, and as managers.

It was very nice of us to try the whole "give a promising British manager a chance" thing. I worry it's done far more harm to the cause than good though.
 
Last edited:
van der star said:
Rumours on the New York stock exchange suggest that David Moyes will leave Manchester United by mutual consent.
This post - appearing on stock exchange news site forexlive - was made by Miles Eakers earlier today.
Eakers is the head of FX and runs SAVI Trading, the proprietary trading company.

1656173_10152122499784279_1934394548_n.png
Click to expand...

Nothing on Bloomberg and I'd trust them over some guy looking to get hits on his trading website.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The comparison with the Chelsea squad mourinho took over is fecking daft, by the way, when you compare the money invested in the two squads over the previous 2 or 3 seasons.
Click to expand...

How many points did we finish above Chelsea last season? How much has the 2 clubs spent since last summer?
 
Cal? said:
The day Moyes said we needed to make things difficult for Newcastle at OT was the day I wanted him sacked.
Click to expand...
I was criticizing him from the begining for some things (and didn't thought that he will ever be a success here) but I was happy to continue for him for a few years as long as we get the fourth place and there are some signs of improvement. Neither of them is going to happen.

After the Newcastle game, for me it became clear that he should go and was at the stage when I wasn't asking for his immediate sack but would have been delighted if he gets sacked (similar to Mockney now). We lost at home against his previous team (something that Everton couldn't ever do during his spell there) and we needed a reaction. Moyes comes and says that we will make it hard for them and then we make another pathetic display, getting in process overplayed and defeated by Newcastle in our own pitch.

I started calling for his head after we lost the first game against Southampton. Lost against Spurs at home, against Swansea at home and then lost against Southampton. In the last minute the camera focused him and it shown you everything you need to know about him. That it has gone to the point of no return. A pity cause that run of four victories before those three defeats looked like an improvement but for some strange reasons known only to him he decided to turn back to square zero and again try things that were proven to result in failures.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Everton's record at goodison against teams with vastly superior resources was decent. That's my point. Better than our own against City in recent seasons, for example.
Click to expand...

Maybe but it was achieved through creating a certain atmosphere and mentality (those nouveau riche f*ckers used to be at the same level as us and now they can pay 25 million for Lescott). You can't play the underdog card at United, certainly not at home. And Moyes seems to be struggling badly with that concept.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Guy on Talksport now who has just come back from Greece and he said everyone there was fuming. They are the diehards and if they are turning he is in trouble. This guy has been to every game home and away for the last 20 years.
Click to expand...
I'd believe that. I'm going to the home match, it will be interesting to see what the atmosphere will be like
 
MoskvaRed said:
Maybe but it was achieved through creating a certain atmosphere and mentality (those nouveau riche f*ckers used to be at the same level as us and now they can pay 25 million for Lescott). You can't play the underdog card at United, certainly not at home. And Moyes seems to be struggling badly with that concept.
Click to expand...

Can't play it away either, even at places like Barcelona or Madrid.
 
Revan said:
I was criticizing him from the begining for some things (and didn't thought that he will ever be a success here) but I was happy to continue for him for a few years as long as we get the fourth place and there are some signs of improvement. Neither of them is going to happen.

After the Newcastle game, for me it became clear that he should go and was at the stage when I wasn't asking for his immediate sack but would have been delighted if he gets sacked (similar to Mockney now). We lost at home against his previous team (something that Everton couldn't ever do during his spell there) and we needed a reaction. Moyes comes and says that we will make it hard for them and then we make another pathetic display, getting in process overplayed and defeated by Newcastle in our own pitch.

I started calling for his head after we lost the first game against Southampton. Lost against Spurs at home, against Swansea at home and then lost against Southampton. In the last minute the camera focused him and it shown you everything you need to know about him. That it has gone to the point of no return. A pity cause that run of four victories before those three defeats looked like an improvement but for some strange reasons known only to him he decided to turn back to square zero and again try things that were proven to result in failures.
Click to expand...
Similar sentiments here, I never wanted him appointed in the first place, think my first comment on the "Next United manager will be Mourinho or Moyes" thread was "Moyes will be a disaster", I've never been so upset about being so right.

Anyway, I was in the same camp that 4th is tolerable, but as the season progressed, it's becoming clearer and clearer that he's even worse than I thought he'd be.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.