Moyes So Far!

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RVP after last game:
"Our fellow players are sometimes occupying the spaces I want to play in,"

"And when I see that, it makes it difficult for me to come to those spaces as well. So that forces me to adjust my runs, based on the position of my fellow players.

"And, unfortunately, they are often playing in my zones. I think that's a shame."
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You kind of assume that the manager would tell the players about their positions before the game?

This statement by van Persie makes me think Moyes is sending our players to the game without an actual plan. Who gets to the position first gets it! :confused:
 
Danny1982 said:
RVP after last game:


You kind of assume that the manager would tell the players about their positions before the game?

This statement by van Persie makes me think Moyes is sending our players to the game without an actual plan. Who gets to the position first gets it! :confused:
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Andy Mitten has said he doesn't discuss tactics with the players till match day
 
Danny1982 said:
RVP after last game:


You kind of assume that the manager would tell the players about their positions before the game?

This statement by van Persie makes me think Moyes is sending our players to the game without an actual plan. Who gets to the position first gets it! :confused:
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I think it's pretty clear there is no work on movement or shape. The midfield positioning gives that away.
 
.Rossi said:
Andy Mitten has said he doesn't discuss tactics with the players till match day
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How can he discuss something that doesn't exist? or

He thinks that a day is enough in order to tell his players to cross as much as they can.
 
Revan said:
How can he discuss something that doesn't exist? or

He thinks that a day is enough in order to tell his players to cross as much as they can.
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Aye that can't take long. He can probably relay his entire game plan in a snapchat video
 
Revan said:
How can he discuss something that doesn't exist? or

He thinks that a day is enough in order to tell his players to cross as much as they can.
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Ole's_toe_poke said:
When your tactic week in week out is "cross the ball" I'm not sure how much there is to discuss.
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True....And in all fairness, if I was a professional footballer and Phil Neville told me how to play or tried implementing tactics/ a game plan, I'd laugh at him and walk off
 
Revan said:
How can he discuss something that doesn't exist? or

He thinks that a day is enough in order to tell his players to cross as much as they can.
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His team talks probably goes: Get it wide to Antonio or Ashley and get in the box.
 
I think I've realized Moyes biggest problem. He is trying to be Sir Alex. Not the person but, the way he managed the team and had the team playing over the last few years.

He is not trying to be David Moyes, he is not running his club but, he is running Sir Alex's team.

I posted in the Nani thread about how he has handled Nani in the same way SAF did and same goes with Valencia. The former can have 1 poor game and get benched for a period while the latter will continue to play regardless of merit or not. Last season being a very good example.

On rotation, we've heard Moyes talk about rotation recently and how United rotate and that's why they've been strong at the end. The thing is/was that rotation worked for Sir Alex because when he rotated players in, he could motivate them to perform. That was his brilliance. Moyes on the other hand seems to be rotating because well that's just how Fergie did it and it worked. How else do you explain not starting Januzaj after the weekend, after having a couple weeks off and hardly playing in the last month. It wasn't like he really needed to be sat, Fergie certainly wouldn't have sat Ronaldo. Problem is/was Moyes saw in the last couple of seasons Fergie play his experienced players, like Giggs in certain games - so he went "hmmm let me play Valencia/Young since they are experienced and it's going to be a hostile crowd.

The right back situation. Smalling - who after he really shined at right back could visibly be seen to be less and less effective in what we needed from a right back but, has been excellent at cb has continued to be deployed as rightback and even Jones. Then there is the whole Valencia at right back, that was a stroke of genius against Chelsea by Fergie the first time but, maybe he maybe over did it after that. So what has Moyes done, well Fergie used it, lets use it as well.

Jones in CM - again Fergie did it and he got him to give him some good performances. Still Moyes could have come in and decided, you know what Jones is going to play CB and he'll play there and we won't shuffle him around but, he hasn't.

The subs, the pattern is almost identical to Fergie. Doesn't Rooney have to drop into CM every time we are chasing, can he not be moved to the left versus bringing Welbeck, another striker to play there and throw on a CM like Fellaini? Does he always have to wait till the 60th minute to decide to put on a sub like Fergie and then waste 10 minutes getting them on?

Looking back at the season so far - is there any point we can say this is a David Moyes original thought? Is there any indication that this really his team or is it more of a case that he is just trying to play the role of Sir Alex very very poorly?

He simply doesn't seem to have the cajones to make this team his and it's has destroyed our season so far and probably will as long as he is here.
 
RedRover said:
For clarity - I made the same comments last year aboiut lack of quality in the squad, and also that the main reasons we won the title were, in my opinion, Fergie's superhuman ability to win games regardless, RVP's goal tally and a other title rivals sacking managers and/or failing to find any consistency. That is (again., in my opinion) one of the weakest sides to win the PL in terms of quality in key areas. That, added to the fact that other sides have goitten their act together is one of the reasons we are where we are.

Regardless of whomever is managing this squad the issues we had last year in midfield perists, added to the issues we now have at the back. Whether Mourinho or Moyes (or whomever) is looking after this squad those issues remain and need to be addressed.

Fergie had the ability to get the best out of these players - perhaps Moyes doesnt, but given that he's miles behind Fergie in terms of career and experience I dont see how you can really criticise him for that. The club chose to go down the route of picking a manager to build for the future - not to come in for 5 years and move on. That may provioe top be the wrong decision, but I can see why they made that decision - probably advised by Sir Alex.

People can bang on about which other manager would get more out of them - clearly a Mourinho or Guardiola would. I suspect the discussion between Pep and Fergie last year covered whether he would want to take over. Perhaps he saw the size of the task and declined. Mourinho was my choice, but I dont think he would have this team top of the league either if I'm totally honest, although they would probably be doing better.

The bottom line for me - Moyes may prove to be a terrible choice - but he was brought in to do a job which was clearlyt going to take more than one tranfser window to replace ageing (albeit long serving and well respected) players. Once the Ferdinands, Vidic's, Giggs and Evra's are moved on, which has to happen at some stage soon, he's left with huge gaps to fill. The board havent done what they needed to to support him.

If the suggestion is that he needs to be sacked, and somebody else brought in then people are entitled to hold that opinion. But I dispute that there are manay managers out there who can achieve things with this squad, right now without serious investment. The money is evidently there so why wasnt this done last year? They could then have judged Moyes on the performances on the pitch alone - and not had to have one eye on what we might or might not be able to do in the summer when he needs to try and find 6 or 7 players to repalce the spine of the team.
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If you look at the "where we we finish" thread, the majority of people felt our squad was the best in the league after City's. I still feel this is true, especially given the addition of Mata.

We currently have the best centre forward in the League, two of the five best play-makers in the League and the best central midfielder of last season. In addition we have 2 solid experienced defenders in Evans and Vidic and 2 talented younger central defenders in Smalling and Jones. The former 2 players would challenge to get into any top 4 side and the latter 2 would be in a top 4 squad. Rafael would challenge to be in any top 4 squad, he certainly isn't the worst out of our rivals: Sagna, Zabaleta, Rafael, Johnson, Ivanovic. DDG in my opinion would walk into any of our rivals' first teams.

I still maintain our first XI is the second best team in the League:

________DDG
Rafael Vidic Evans Evra
Carrick_Fellaini/Cleverley
Januzaj Rooney Mata
_______RVP

That team has two real weaknesses: the position next to Carrick and left back. But every team in the League has weaknesses, Arsenal/Chelsea have strikers that wouldn't even make our bench. I can't think of a single member of Liverpool's back 5 defender who would make our first team. Man City have the best squad in the League, we all agree, but even they have a dodgy Goalkeeper, dodgy LB and no-one to partner Kompany.

The fact is we can debate about how weak our team is all day long, however Ferguson didn't turn a team full of mediocrity into World beaters on his own. He may have been worth 10 points a season, even 12-13 at a push, but lets not pretend he was worth 25 points and that we'd have been mid table the last decade without him.

The problem is that if Fergie was worth +10, Moyes is worth -20 (net -30). The likes of Mourinho, even if he was 5-10 points worse than Fergie would have us challenging. In fact given how shit everyone has been this season I think Mourinho would be a few points clear with our squad (particularly as he'd have signed someone like Matic over Fellaini).
 
.Rossi said:
True....And in all fairness, if I was a professional footballer and Phil Neville told me how to play or tried implementing tactics/ a game plan, I'd laugh at him and walk off
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A lot of coaches were not world class players who won loads, so if that is their attitude, that is wrong and Phil has won more than his manager.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Has he? I can't believe any of this. I'm in a state of shock.
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It was in one of his articles back near October I think....It was pretty early into the season anyway.

Basically the jist of it was, Moyes plays his cards so close to his chest that he often doesn't tell his players the game plan or tactics till match day
 
Except for the fact Sir Alex played Kagawa, Chicharito and Nani a lot more often than Moyes.
 
jojojo said:
The club have let him down? Really?

The club let him replace the coaching team with his own people. Let him choose his own transfer targets. Allowed him to dally and procrastinate so long on deadline day that even an agreed loan deal failed. Allowed him to get rid of his backup fullback.

If anything the club has given him too much rope and he's spent the last 6 months hanging himself with it.
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The club left him with a squad with a number of players, key players last year in Vidic and Ferdinand, with 12 months left on their deal.

Evra, I think, has two years left as did Carrick before he signed. He has also had to deal with the Rooney fall out this year.

They also failed to bring in the players he identified, or act quickly enough to get other targets when they didn't come off leading to an embarrassing and frankly shambolic summer transfer window.

He was able to bring his own staff in - but I suspect most other managers would want to do the same.

And why wouldn't you want Moyes, or any manager for that matter to identify his own transfer targets? Who picks the players if he doesn't?
 
.Rossi said:
The more I watch this, the more I really think this is whats happening right now (I know I shouldn't be posting this here but I'm being genuine)
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The thought has crossed my mind as well. "Can we not knock it"? The Neville-Neal analogy is obvious. Is Fellaini Carlton Palmer? Bobby Robson to Graham Taylor, Fergie to David Moyes. Only in England...
 
.Rossi said:
It was in one of his articles back near October I think....It was pretty early into the season anyway.

Basically the jist of it was, Moyes plays his cards so close to his chest that he often doesn't tell his players the game plan or tactics till match day
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Suppose it makes sense when Rio has come out and said they don't know the team till matchday.

I don't think that's the best way to keep a bigger squad like ours on your side. Pretty sure Ferguson would tell a number of players his plans a few weeks in advance. Imagine waiting all week to be told you're not in the squad, and instead of being told when you might be used, you get nothing. He just fecking deafs you.
 
MoskvaRed said:
The thought has crossed my mind as well. "Can we not knock it"? The Neville-Neal analogy is obvious. Is Fellaini Carlton Palmer? Bobby Robson to Graham Taylor, Fergie to David Moyes. Only in England...
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Sixpence said:
Do I not like what is going on right now.
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"Go Wayne!! Hit Wayne!! Hit Wayne over the top!!"
 
Steven Seagull said:
Suppose it makes sense when Rio has come out and said they don't know the team till matchday.

I don't think that's the best way to keep a bigger squad like ours on your side. Pretty sure Ferguson would tell a number of players his plans a few weeks in advance. Imagine waiting all week to be told you're not in the squad, and instead of being told when you might be used, you get nothing. He just fecking deafs you.
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He makes me angry Kent....Angry and tired! :(
 
finneh said:
If you look at the "where we we finish" thread, the majority of people felt our squad was the best in the league after City's. I still feel this is true, especially given the addition of Mata.

We currently have the best centre forward in the League, two of the five best play-makers in the League and the best central midfielder of last season. In addition we have 2 solid experienced defenders in Evans and Vidic and 2 talented younger central defenders in Smalling and Jones. The former 2 players would challenge to get into any top 4 side and the latter 2 would be in a top 4 squad. Rafael would challenge to be in any top 4 squad, he certainly isn't the worst out of our rivals: Sagna, Zabaleta, Rafael, Johnson, Ivanovic. DDG in my opinion would walk into any of our rivals' first teams.

I still maintain our first XI is the second best team in the League:

________DDG
Rafael Vidic Evans Evra
Carrick_Fellaini/Cleverley
Januzaj Rooney Mata
_______RVP

That team has two real weaknesses: the position next to Carrick and left back. But every team in the League has weaknesses, Arsenal/Chelsea have strikers that wouldn't even make our bench. I can't think of a single member of Liverpool's back 5 defender who would make our first team. Man City have the best squad in the League, we all agree, but even they have a dodgy Goalkeeper, dodgy LB and no-one to partner Kompany.

The fact is we can debate about how weak our team is all day long, however Ferguson didn't turn a team full of mediocrity into World beaters on his own. He may have been worth 10 points a season, even 12-13 at a push, but lets not pretend he was worth 25 points and that we'd have been mid table the last decade without him.

The problem is that if Fergie was worth +10, Moyes is worth -20 (net -30). The likes of Mourinho, even if he was 5-10 points worse than Fergie would have us challenging. In fact given how shit everyone has been this season I think Mourinho would be a few points clear with our squad (particularly as he'd have signed someone like Matic over Fellaini).
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I disagree with the assessment of the squad. Midfield has been a major issue for the last few years - and not addressed. That is a key area for me because an average midfield exposes the back 4.

At the back Ferdinand looks physically finished - slow, immobile and unable to play regularly. Vidic isn't the same player and again has injury flare ups.

Jones and Smalling were supposed to be the future - but neither are ready after Fergie deployed the regularly at right back and in Jones case in midfield. We haven't been able to pick consistent centre back pairing all season.

Moyes has a group of players, half of whom probably realise they're go e in the summer, which makes life difficult. He's been asked to come in and sweep away dead wood which probably makes him unpopular.

At the end of the day Jose may have worked miracles - but plenty on here didn't want him for numerous reasons - specifically that he wouldnt stick around.
 
Cina said:
everyone predicted that stuff, including me, but all that was obvious, none of the reasons why he's doing so bad were mentioned in your post. You also forget to mention the ones that were wrong, by the way, like Rooney's contract and apparently not having an unlimited budget.

All your negatives were irrelevant to what's happening now so f*ck off quoting old posts to try and make yourself look great when in reality, you're not.
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I just remember being frustrated that all I was doing is opening up an arena for debate, which can't have been too far off, as we all heading to 600 pages, and all people wanted to do was nit pick the points when in reality all could still be argued.

Rooney's contract not being sorted back then is still arguably a bad thing, he has shown good form this season and with our shite performances we are up against a wall. We might not have had to offer £300k a week if we sorted it sooner. It's speculation, but since this time we have announced record results and have been shite, two very good reasons for Rooney to be in power for negotiation.

As for unlimited budget, it's about the price we have to pay and as I said on the last post before this one, we arguably over paid for both Fellaini and Mata. Again it's not to say the end result wouldn't have been the same, but shouting about unlimited budgets is clearly not going to help negotiation.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The comparison with the Chelsea squad mourinho took over is fecking daft, by the way, when you compare the money invested in the two squads over the previous 2 or 3 seasons.
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Eh?

Moyes took over the squad that just won the title by 11 points (14 points ahead of Chelsea). Infact, its 4 years since Chelsea last finished above us (with us finishing at least 9 points clear of them each season since).

Edit: Were you talking about Everton's squad? I've confused myself now.
 
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kps88 said:
Valencia stays back every day after training and practices crossing. I'd pay to watch that just to see what the heck is going on.
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I would too, IIRC he said DDG was helping him with it too. How could a keeper help a winger with his crossing ? This is a genuine question tbh and not one filled with sarcasm.
 
redevil2 said:
And training means feck all. Might as well just go home and watch TV
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Nope. Training is important. Every player should run at-least 15km each day. Then cross 100 times.

That's all they need to do. #ModernFootball
 
kouroux said:
I would too, IIRC he said DDG was helping him with it too. How could a keeper help a winger with his crossing ? This is a genuine question tbh and not one filled with sarcasm.
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One crosses and one catches? Double the benefits

Thought Phil Neville could have made himself useful in this
 
kouroux said:
I would too, IIRC he said DDG was helping him with it too. How could a keeper help a winger with his crossing ? This is a genuine question tbh and not one filled with sarcasm.
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De Gea is Spanish. Spanish players are goot at passing. Crosses are a bit related to passes, usually all players who can pass well, can also cross well.

You see, it is easy.
 
SATA said:
One crosses and one catches? Double the benefits

Thought Phil Neville could have made himself useful in this
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It could work like that, maybe I would be less surprised if he said "I work on my crosses with the strikers and even the reserve players by aiming at them". Working with DDG sounds more like a catching practice for the keeper.

Revan said:
De Gea is Spanish. Spanish players are goot at passing. Crosses are a bit related to passes, usually all players who can pass well, can also cross well.

You see, it is easy.
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It is actually, what was I thinking ?
 
I am seriously baffled at what has happened to us this year. It's quite confusing the way we have crumbled. I was fine with the initial bedding in period, our results during an unusually tough start to the campaign & the various injuries affecting the results. Inspite of everything there were positives to the way we ended the year. Good performances in the cup competitions, 6 wins on the bounce including 4 in a row in the premier league. We were in the semi-final of the COC, easily into the Knock-out stages of the CL & only 8 points behind in the league, 3 points off 4th. With RVP expected to come back and the opening of the January window, where we would make amends for summer, there was an air of positivity. And then suddenly it started to go seriously bad.

This are our results this year -

Spurs 2-1 (L) League (h)
Swansea 2-1 (L) FA cup (h)
Sunderland 2-1 (L) COC (a)
Swansea 0-2 (W) League (h)
Chelsea 3-1 (L) League (h)
Sunderland (L) and out of the cup on penalties at home
Cardiff 0-2 (W) League (h)
Stoke City 2-1 (L) League (a)
Fulham 2-2 (D) League (h)
Arsenal 0-0 (D) League (a)
Palace 0-2 (W) League (a)
Olympiakoa 2-0 (L) CL (a)

Quite opposite from what you would generally expect from us. 6 losses, 3 wins & 2 draws from 12 games (plus a win that was really a loss against Sunderland in the second leg of the COC). People may say that they saw this coming from a mile but it has been quite a dramatic fall off from not a bad position overall in all competitions. Well, I have spent the better part of the last 24 hours blaming Moyes and asking for his head but there has to be more to this.

I would dearly love if someone can please provide me with a reason for this madness.
 
finneh said:
If you look at the "where we we finish" thread, the majority of people felt our squad was the best in the league after City's. I still feel this is true, especially given the addition of Mata.

We currently have the best centre forward in the League, two of the five best play-makers in the League and the best central midfielder of last season. In addition we have 2 solid experienced defenders in Evans and Vidic and 2 talented younger central defenders in Smalling and Jones. The former 2 players would challenge to get into any top 4 side and the latter 2 would be in a top 4 squad. Rafael would challenge to be in any top 4 squad, he certainly isn't the worst out of our rivals: Sagna, Zabaleta, Rafael, Johnson, Ivanovic. DDG in my opinion would walk into any of our rivals' first teams.

I still maintain our first XI is the second best team in the League:

________DDG
Rafael Vidic Evans Evra
Carrick_Fellaini/Cleverley
Januzaj Rooney Mata
_______RVP

That team has two real weaknesses: the position next to Carrick and left back. But every team in the League has weaknesses, Arsenal/Chelsea have strikers that wouldn't even make our bench. I can't think of a single member of Liverpool's back 5 defender who would make our first team. Man City have the best squad in the League, we all agree, but even they have a dodgy Goalkeeper, dodgy LB and no-one to partner Kompany.

The fact is we can debate about how weak our team is all day long, however Ferguson didn't turn a team full of mediocrity into World beaters on his own. He may have been worth 10 points a season, even 12-13 at a push, but lets not pretend he was worth 25 points and that we'd have been mid table the last decade without him.

The problem is that if Fergie was worth +10, Moyes is worth -20 (net -30). The likes of Mourinho, even if he was 5-10 points worse than Fergie would have us challenging. In fact given how shit everyone has been this season I think Mourinho would be a few points clear with our squad (particularly as he'd have signed someone like Matic over Fellaini).
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Great post. Spot on.
 
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