That non answer, said a lot. Maybe he has come in thinking the team didn't need motivating, when obviously SAF never stopped motivating and keeping them on their toes. Moyes and his staff always look like someone who has won a competition to managed United for a year.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Totally agree. From a player who most would describe as low maintenance from a managers perspective.....it's telling.
Last night, sherlock.
I agree - that was a poor decision. I suspect he was trying to rotate. Januzaj would have been in for me. He doesnt like Kagawa it seems for whatever reason.
What do you judge players on but current form? You can all it "revisionism" if you want - but its the job at those in the club to recognise when players are on the turn and or where areas of the saud need to be improved. Ferdinand, as an example is clearly struggling physically - that has been evident all year.
Rafael is a decent player, if positionally lax at times - but not better than Zabaleta, Sagna or Ivanovic at full back in my opinion. Evans is no better than the other sides have, nor is Carrick.
Looking at last year - on last years form these players might have got in Last years rival sides - the difference is that those sides have improved massively this year.
De Gea, is a top player and would get in those sides to be fair. As far as Rooney and RVP go they would walk into Chelsea's side given their lack of Forward options, and probably Arsenal. City, I'm not so sure given the quality they have. THose tow are the players who, for me should be standing up and being counted at the moment.
At the end of the day its evident that Moyes isnt blameless, but this season brings one thing into sharp focus - specifically the achievement of Fergie last year. The squad is so lacking in quality - both first team and cover. I cant for the life of me understand why investment in quality players wasnt made before. Everyone has recognised where we were lacking last year - in midfield, added to that the defence is now falling apprt due to players edging over the hill.
Moyes is struggling and deserves criticism, but the players level of performance has been dire. Some look like they lack commitment, and others seem to struggle under the spotlight and perhaps arent tough enough for what we need right now.
A moyes thread on the forex site ?
Wow. Is our value increasing with Moyes leaving?
Someone trying to get the share price up? Or a glimmer of hope?
Hmm. Watch this space i guess.
Unfortunately, i think the rumours are bollocks.
It isn't beyond the realms of possibility we could win the return leg 3-0, so there will be no concrete plans to sack or not until after that.
That's such bizarre logic. Are you suggesting that every team that has an incompetent manager, suddenly also has a crap squad? Were the majority of the Chelsea team suddenly crap under Scolari/AVB? Of course not, a managers job is to motivate his players and find a system that gets the best out of them. The difference between a crap manager and a great manager is the results and performances of a shit team vs a great team, that's the problem.
After last season a mixed team of Arsenal/United (if you are being kind to Arsenal) would have been something like:
_________DDG
Rafael Ferdinand Evans Gibbs
Walcott Carrick Arteta Ramsey
_______Cazorla
________RVP
A mixed team of Chelsea/United would be likewise balanced:
__________DDG
Rafael Ferdinand Evans Azpilicueta
______Carrick Ramires
___Hazard Mata Oscar
__________RVP
This is discounting the fact that Rooney would be in both teams if not for the worst season of his career last year.
To be honest I find it pretty disgusting that people are so quick to deem our squad terrible after the amount of trophies they've won for us in the last 3-4 years. The likes of Rafael, Carrick, Evans, Kagawa and Vidic are still comparable to the player's at Arsenal, Chelsea and City. That's before you even talk about Rooney, RVP, Mata, DDG and Januzaj who'd all be starting often for the likes of Chelsea, City and Arsenal. That's 10 player's who would be either starting often or good squad player's at our supposed rivals (before you even talk about Liverpool).
It's not that they're mentally weak, lack commitment or lacking in quality. It's that they are not being managed, motivated or directed well. They aren't just people who can be programmed to perform every week. They have to have confidence instilled in them and a system has to be in place to get the best out of them. Look at Terry, Cahill, Luiz, Hazard and Azpilicueta under Mourinho. They've gone from either past it, overrated or plain awful to producing week in week out at a team that is favourites to win the League. I have no doubt if we had a quality new manager we'd see a similar upturn in the form of Carrick, Rafael, Vidic, Evans, Kagawa etc.
We have won only 4 games this season with a result that would send us to the next round (Leverkusen 4-1, Leverkusen 5-0, Swansea 4-1 and Norwich 4-0). In around 40 games. So based on probability, we have around 10% of qualifying for the next round. Considering that the last game when we won with a result that will send us to the next round (5-0 vs Leverkusen) was 3 months ago and the team was playing better then, I think that the chances are even lower than that.
Basically, if we want to eliminate Olympifeckingcos we need to sack that clueless guy in charge and hope that the caretaker can do a Di Matteo. Not likely but we have nothing to lose anymore.
Starting to seem like my IQ levels are making yours seem like those of an amoeba! The writing was on the wall early and I was brave enough to say it!
Yes....just yes...!
You realize most of your 'negatives' have nothing to do with what's happening, right?
So... £300k a week for Rooney, £40 million for Mata, £28 million for Fellaini
Surely we could have bought an outstanding central midfielder for £68 million and 300k a week.
Surely we could have bought an outstanding central midfielder for £68 million and 300k a week.
I can't believe that the media in general is absolving him of blame for last night ghastly performance. Some of them are saying well Young and Valencia aint that good in Moyesy's defense. Then don't bleeding play them. Who the feck forced him to drop Januzaj and Kagawa for those two clowns ? AVB was humiliated and hung to dry for way way less. I just don't see how anyone with reason can defend Moyes now. It's beggars belief.
Next up is WBA.
Every man and his dog have jumped on board the coaching situation. I said that early. Our lack of signing a decent midfielder early in the window has clearly had an impact. Thiago might have made a solid difference in terms of energy and creativity. Our pre-season crap football has continued all year, so I'd say that was pretty much the writing on the wall.
Statement of unlimited budget and we ended up spending £27m for Fellaini who no one in the world was willing to offer £24m for. Then there is Mata for £37m who couldn't get into the Chelsea team and many journalists thought was an excessive price.
So erm yeah I'd say there is a fair argument for plenty of the negatives.
It's the Britishness thing. Liverpool fans were also dismayed with how kind the media was to Hodgson during his short tenure.
everyone predicted that stuff, including me, but all that was obvious, none of the reasons why he's doing so bad were mentioned in your post. You also forget to mention the ones that were wrong, by the way, like Rooney's contract and apparently not having an unlimited budget.
All your negatives were irrelevant to what's happening now so f*ck off quoting old posts to try and make yourself look great when in reality, you're not.
No, no, no, no.
My response to your thread at the time was:
I now even hate Moyes but at the time it was a stupid thread. We could have criticized Moyes for being a bit shit of a manager and for being the wrong choice for us, but criticizing for things that he hadn't done wasn't right. He was here for only two weeks and all your 'arguably negative' stuff had nothing to do with reality. Yep, Moyes did shit. Yes, a lot of people thought that he will be a complete failure here (I said it too) but criticizing him for not convincing Paul Scholes to stay with us, for not giving a contract to Rooney in his first two weeks or for losing against Thai all stars was stupid back then, regardless how failure Moyes turned out to be.
Edit: my post isn't on paragraphs because it was on bullet points as a big multiquote to your post.
The board want him gone, I wouldn't be surprised. If Woodward struggled in terms of getting sponsorship deals and so cost the club £50 million due to his failures then I would think he would be gone too.
It's simple, this is the job that needs doing - Get top four, if you can't do it we will get somebody else who can. It's no different to fixing the Glazer's roof. An exception is if clear indicators exist a good job is being done but for some reason the performances haven't been there then the board might make exceptions as this does sometimes happen however with Moyes it appears to be a bad job that he has done as opposed to being the victim of exceptional circumstances.
Rumours are NYSE have received notice he will be sacked however that would have been reported by now or at least in the next hour. If it hasn't then he probably won't be sacked until we fail to make the top four (mathematically) therefore activating a performance related clause in his contract allowing for immediate termination.
They might let him stay until the end of the season and then sack him due to difficulties finding a replacement.
If he isn't sacked then clearly he is doing something right or Ferguson holds the cards.
I hope an announcement will be made at the start of trading he has left by mutual consent. He knows he won't get top four and so instead of prolonging the inevitable he'll do the honourable thing and walk giving the new manager an opportunity to win every game between now and the end of the season and get 78 points, giving us a chance at top four.
It's simple, this is the job that needs doing - Get top four, if you can't do it we will get somebody else who can. It's no different to fixing the Glazer's roof. An exception is if clear indicators exist a good job is being done but for some reason the performances haven't been there then the board might make exceptions as this does sometimes happen however with Moyes it appears to be a bad job that he has done as opposed to being the victim of exceptional circumstances.
Rumours are NYSE have received notice he will be sacked however that would have been reported by now or at least in the next hour. If it hasn't then he probably won't be sacked until we fail to make the top four (mathematically) therefore activating a performance related clause in his contract allowing for immediate termination.
They might let him stay until the end of the season and then sack him due to difficulties finding a replacement.
If he isn't sacked then clearly he is doing something right or Ferguson holds the cards.
I hope an announcement will be made at the start of trading he has left by mutual consent. He knows he won't get top four and so instead of prolonging the inevitable he'll do the honourable thing and walk giving the new manager an opportunity to win every game between now and the end of the season and get 78 points, giving us a chance at top four.
He will never walk away without being pushed. It is career suicide. So he will be hoping he gets enough time to turn things around.
Why on earth would be do that? this is possibly the biggest opportunity he's ever going to get in his career, and he has the backing of the greatest manager ever. He'd be utterly daft to resign.
I so want to believe such a clause exists. But I dont. If we sack Moyes he will be in a position to retire to the highlands, next door to Fred the Shred, and share in his bountiful ignominy.
Strootman just to name one. For half that wage and even less than Screech's transfer fee.
True. I can't imagine that either, not in the first half of the contract. He'd be walking away from compensation as well. Firing equals full payment, or at least some sort of severance package. Resignation would cost him millions.
The thought of allowing Moyes to spend £200 million gives me nightmares. If we let him throw that money around, and he doesn't get it right, then we really are fecked for the future, as that will be that.
Because he would inevitably be sacked upon not getting top four, the board would make this clear. They could give him the chance to walk and even offer him more money than when his contract would terminate.
Either prolong the inevitable for nothing.
Or leave no and get something.
We're not going to spend £200 million this summer. 
My post was made on the assumption a performance related clause exists resulting in the termination of his contract upon failure to perform what was requested (so getting top four).
You don't honestly believe United would let him damage their reputation and cost them 10s of millions and then still be expected to pay severance?
Why? That is like 7 Fellaini's? We will have 7 30m signings fighting for a spot on the bench. Quality
Why would such a clause not exist?
Contracts are a mutual agreement, if one fails to deliver what they agreed then the contract can be terminated.
United would have requested Moyes' management services to achieve a top four finish, at least I hope they did.
Is that true? Does such a clause exist?
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