Moyes So Far!

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Varun_Utd said:
For that to happen, our play should go through the middle. What do you expect RVP to do? Run out wide to get the ball?
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I don't really expect anyone to do anything seeing the performances and the players playing as they were. What I just wanted to say was how mediocre it is to see two of the best players do absolutely nothing in a match.
 
coolredwine said:
I don't really expect anyone to do anything seeing the performances and the players playing as they were. What I just wanted to say was how mediocre it is to see two of the best players do absolutely nothing in a match.
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It's a shame but its to be expected. We starved our best players of the ball and Our play revolved around getting the ball as much as possible to our wank wingers. Yesterday, we didnt even manage that properly.

If Moyes's plan is to simply play both RVP and Rooney and hope their quality pulls us through, he doesnt need to be the manager.
 
There is absolutely zero shape to this team - players are miles apart. That's not the players fault - its simply a criminal lack of work on the training field.

Is there anyone defending this guy anymore? If we don't take action, the effects could be long lasting. We cannot afford to give him another season
 
Pexbo said:
I think a big thing for me in his team selection and tactics is that everyone can see the problems but him.

Now I agree with opinions and assholes and what not and it's easy for us to criticise after a defeat with the benefit of hindsight. However, it's the fact that everyone has been correctly criticising his choices before a ball is kicked and already predicting, correctly, where we are going to have issues and where we will ultimately fail.

If the majority on here can see it, why can't he?

Conversely, he chooses the tream and tactics we have all been screaming for and we win 2-0.

Go figure.
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Just to be clear - Moyes may not be the man for the job, but as it stands I feel desperately sorry for what he's been left with in terms of a squad, and last night sums it up.

The level of performance last night was shocking. It seems to me that this squad - who were underdogs last year, have completely gone to pieces because of the pressure they're under this year with everyone focusing on what will happen post Fergie.

Moyes has a squad of which perhaps two of his players would get into Chelsea, City or Arsenal's first team - although neither Rooney nor RVP would probably get a place on current form. Cleverley cant complete a pass and gives the ball away in dangerous areas consistently. Valencia and Young couldnt trap the ball half the time and even when they did they couldnt get a decent cross in.

We deseprately needed three top players in the summer. The board didnt deliver. We now need 6 or 7 players - all over the park qand to sweep away the dead wood.

I understand people questioning Moyes tactics, but I dont see how the players escape criticism. They are not robots - he sets his team out, and the likes of Rooney especially have a licence to do what they have always done.

Last night was a shambles. Perhaps they dont want to play for Moyes - if that's the case then the club need to decide what to do because they either need to back the manager or pander to the players whims. I'd suggest the former is better given that half of these players will be gone in the summer.
 
I think it must be really hard for medal winning players to believe in three guys who have won bugger all as managers, coaches etc. Where does their motivational winning mentality come from...to inspire? How do these guys tell a player who has won 3 or 4 premier league titles what to do, trust in the style/tactics, trust my 'experience'. Neville has hardly coached at all. Round has won bugger all relatively...and Moyes believes that 5th is like winning the bloody league.
 
I hinted a few weeks ago that Carrick may be one of the players "against" moyes - i think there were signs of that in his interview last night.

That's Carrick (not backing manager when directly asked) and rvp (questioning tactics) both speaking out. Club have a decision to make. Nowhere in their summer rebuild did it involve replacing those two.

I sense more players will follow suit
 
togg said:
I think it must be really hard for medal winning players to believe in three guys who have won bugger all as managers, coaches etc. Where does their motivational winning mentality come from...to inspire? How do these guys tell a player who has won 3 or 4 premier league titles what to do, trust in the style/tactics, trust my 'experience'. Neville has hardly coached at all. Round has won bugger all relatively...and Moyes believes that 5th is like winning the bloody league.
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It's not only that they have won nothing it's also the glaring lack of charisma when you compare Moyes to Sir Alex. How is this guy supposed to motivate anyone, let alone a team full of players that have won everything that there is to win in football.
 
RedRover said:
Just to be clear - Moyes may not be the man for the job, but as it stands I feel desperately sorry for what he's been left with in terms of a squad, and last night sums it up.

The level of performance last night was shocking. It seems to me that this squad - who were underdogs last year, have completely gone to pieces because of the pressure they're under this year with everyone focusing on what will happen post Fergie.

Moyes has a squad of which perhaps two of his players would get into Chelsea, City or Arsenal's first team - although neither Rooney nor RVP would probably get a place on current form. Cleverley cant complete a pass and gives the ball away in dangerous areas consistently. Valencia and Young couldnt trap the ball half the time and even when they did they couldnt get a decent cross in.

We deseprately needed three top players in the summer. The board didnt deliver. We now need 6 or 7 players - all over the park qand to sweep away the dead wood.

I understand people questioning Moyes tactics, but I dont see how the players escape criticism. They are not robots - he sets his team out, and the likes of Rooney especially have a licence to do what they have always done.

Last night was a shambles. Perhaps they dont want to play for Moyes - if that's the case then the club need to decide what to do because they either need to back the manager or pander to the players whims. I'd suggest the former is better given that half of these players will be gone in the summer.
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So you absolve Moyes of the responsibility for the shape of the team? The continued ploy of getting the ball wide? Centre half's aimlessly hoofing the ball forward? If its the players, why do you have managers at all?

Some people need to seriously wake up here and actually look at what this guy has us doing. He has us playing stone age football yet there are some who genuinely believe its the sole responsibility of the players.....i just cannot agree and find it baffling that people can't/wont see the obvious.
 
LonelyFire said:
I hinted a few weeks ago that Carrick may be one of the players "against" moyes - i think there were signs of that in his interview last night.

That's Carrick (not backing manager when directly asked) and rvp (questioning tactics) both speaking out. Club have a decision to make. Nowhere in their summer rebuild did it involve replacing those two.

I sense more players will follow suit
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I agree..if you look at it, taking into account that some players may be unhappy, some players are too old and some players moyes doesn't seem to believe in...that is one hell of a long list of possible departures...!
 
LonelyFire said:
So you absolve Moyes of the responsibility for the shape of the team? The continued ploy of getting the ball wide? Centre half's aimlessly hoofing the ball forward? If its the players, why do you have managers at all?

Some people need to seriously wake up here and actually look at what this guy has us doing. He has us playing stone age football yet there are some who genuinely believe its the sole responsibility of the players.....i just cannot agree and find it baffling that people can't/wont see the obvious.
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I dont absolve Moyes of anything in terms of tactics - but people on here are desperate to believe that the sole reason we're not performing is purely down to how Moyes sets his team out. Last night the defenders defended very poorly, Carrick and Cleverly left holes you could drive a tank through in midfield (the latter giving the ball away with alarming regularity), the wide players couldn't trap the ball and Rooney and RVP were anonymous.

Yet - all of the criticism is directed at the manager. These are an experienced group of players and should be able to go out and at the very least not look like players petrified to make a mistake.

You can criticise the tactics all you like, but football to a greater or lesser extent is about doing the basics right. Whichever way you set up, whatever your tactics - there is no excuse for basic errors, inability to defend and not being able to pass and control a football.

These players may not like Moyes and his tactics may not be useful long term - but the performances from the players should be better, they should make more responsibility for the results.
 
RedRover said:
I dont absolve Moyes of anything in terms of tactics - but people on here are desperate to believe that the reason we're not performing is purely dpown to how Moyes sets hios team out. Last night the defenders defended very poorly, Carrick and Cleverly left holes you could drive a tank through in midfield (the latter giving the ball away wiuth alarming regularity), the wide players couldn't trap the ball and Rooney and RVP were anonymous.

Yet - all of the criticism is directed at the manager. These are an experienced group of players and should be able to go out and at the very least not look like players petrified to make a mistake.

You can criticise the tactics all you like, but football to a greater or lesser extent is about doing the basics right. Whichever way you set up, whatever your tactics - there is no excuse for basic errors, inability to defend and not being able to pass and control a football.
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The criticism is directed at the players as well. Go and read any of the player threads. My biggest gripe with Moyes yesterday was him selecting the said players.
 
Bestie07 said:
The criticism is directed at the players as well. Go and read any of the player threads. My biggest gripe with Moyes yesterday was him selecting the said players.
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He doesnt have a great deal of options to be fair. The fact that Cleverly is a regular tells you how light we are in midfield.
 
RedRover said:
He doesnt have a great deal of options to be fair. The fact that Cleverly is a regular tells you how light we are in midfield.
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He doesn't but how can he justify leaving out both Kagawa and Januzaj in favor of Valencia and Young as well as not playing Fellaini after his performance at the weekend. He seems to chop and change just for the sake of it at times and frequently rests players not in need of any rest after good performances.
 
I want to support him but I can't think of a single good reason why he deserves any more time. Anyone who blames the players for yesterday is a fecking joke. The players we have are good enough, they've proven it over the years. Moyes hasn't.
 
kouroux said:
Did he give an interview last night ?
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Yes, he was disappointed, we were in good form coming into the game, the players are hurting, the good thing is we got a second game, we have a great chance,the good thing about is we are only 2-0 down.

 
Why do the journos ask these nice and easy questions ? Why don't they ask about the inclusion of Young/Valencia, the omission from Januzay from the team and Kagawa from the start ? Carrick had tougher questions to answer than Moyes.
 
RedRover said:
Just to be clear - Moyes may not be the man for the job, but as it stands I feel desperately sorry for what he's been left with in terms of a squad, and last night sums it up.

The level of performance last night was shocking. It seems to me that this squad - who were underdogs last year, have completely gone to pieces because of the pressure they're under this year with everyone focusing on what will happen post Fergie.

Moyes has a squad of which perhaps two of his players would get into Chelsea, City or Arsenal's first team - although neither Rooney nor RVP would probably get a place on current form. Cleverley cant complete a pass and gives the ball away in dangerous areas consistently. Valencia and Young couldnt trap the ball half the time and even when they did they couldnt get a decent cross in.

We deseprately needed three top players in the summer. The board didnt deliver. We now need 6 or 7 players - all over the park qand to sweep away the dead wood.

I understand people questioning Moyes tactics, but I dont see how the players escape criticism. They are not robots - he sets his team out, and the likes of Rooney especially have a licence to do what they have always done.

Last night was a shambles. Perhaps they dont want to play for Moyes - if that's the case then the club need to decide what to do because they either need to back the manager or pander to the players whims. I'd suggest the former is better given that half of these players will be gone in the summer.
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What an load of nonsense.

At the start of the season we'd have had around 7 of our player's that would get into Chelsea's first team (Ferdinand, Evans, Rafael, DDG, Rooney, RVP, Carrick), we then bought one of the 4 player's who'd have gotten into our team. Arsenal would be similar, I'd be interested to see you post the two teams that you feel only two of our player's would get into? I suspect it would be riddled with revisionism that several player's are suddenly crap because of the last 9 months, despite a similar thing happening at Chelsea under AVB/Scolari, where funnily enough a new managers resulted in the de-crapafying of several first team player's.
 
kouroux said:
Why do the journos ask these nice and easy questions ? Why don't they ask about the inclusion of Young/Valencia, the omission from Januzay from the team and Kagawa from the start ? Carrick had tougher questions to answer than Moyes.
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British manager. Media darling.
 
He's an absolutely terrible manager. He needs to go now before it gets worse. Does anyone honestly believe we'll beat Olympiakos to progress with this cnut in charge? Does anyone expect us to beat cITY and the scouse filth at home? I don't
 
kouroux said:
Why do the journos ask these nice and easy questions ? Why don't they ask about the inclusion of Young/Valencia, the omission from Januzay from the team and Kagawa from the start ? Carrick had tougher questions to answer than Moyes.
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Because he is British.
 
Varun_Utd said:
For that to happen, our play should go through the middle. What do you expect RVP to do? Run out wide to get the ball?
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Correct. If ever we had the players to play 4-3-3, it's now. What's baffling is we actually played narrowly against palace - all Moyes had to do was bring Kagawa in for mata and he could have replicated the same system.

Instead, he brought in players who haven't performed all season and adopted a system that, you guessed it, hasn't worked all season. I swear Brick Tamland would make better tactical decisions.

The facts are Moyes played for 0-0. He selected young and Valencia for their defensive work rate. Playing like that against a Greek side is just an embarrassment to Man Utd. He can't help it - his default setting is protect what you have. Carragher saw this coming at the start of the season - he's too stubborn to change.
 
Isn't it part of a manager's job to get the players motivated through individual talks, exciting tactics and training drills ?

LonelyFire said:
Correct. If ever we had the players to play 4-3-3, it's now. What's baffling is we actually played narrowly against palace - all Moyes had to do was bring Kagawa in for mata and he could have replicated the same system.

Instead, he brought in players who haven't performed all season and adopted a system that, you guessed it, hasn't worked all season. I swear Brick Tamland would make better tactical decisions.

The facts are Moyes played for 0-0. He selected young and Valencia for their defensive work rate. Playing like that against a Greek side is just an embarrassment to Man Utd. He can't help it - his default setting is protect what you have. Carragher saw this coming at the start of the season - he's too stubborn to change.
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If their defensive work rate was great then Moyes would have a point but they're just average at that aspect of the game too so the question is why even play them ?
 
I am all for getting rid of him immediately but who do we replace him with at this point of the season? We'll have to endure him until the summer atleast
 
I've backed Moyes all along but the pattern here is just too compelling. He can't put back to back performances together, he is making all the wrong decisions, he is effectively blaming the squad for his own in adequacies, he plays up the 'under dog' card way too much for a club like man utd, he is turning us in to Everton.

The reality is with the team set up right we could still progress in Europe and turning around a two goal deficit could galvanise the squad to win the thing. That won't happen under Moyes but it might happen under someone else. The question for me is who could be our Roberto Di Matteo. Who could galvanise the team until May? I've given up on Moyes. He's the wrong man. We should act now, try and salvage something from the season and start again next year.

That's what we should do. But we won't.
 
kouroux said:
Isn't it part of a manager's job to get the players motivated through individual talks, exciting tactics and training drills ?
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Yep...I posted this weeks ago:

Using SAF was given time argument is quite frankly a ridiculous point to make.

To put an end to this whole SAF left Moyes a bag of shit argument:

1. The players do not believe they are going to win each week.

2. The fans don't believe we are going to win each week.

3. The manager does not believe we are going to win each week.

Now, any manager in the history of sport would not succeed with the above. The problem is its his responsibility to breed that confidence, that will to win, and ultimately that expectation. None of that has shit to do with SAF...its Moyes, and him alone.
 
I thought there was a decent chance of waking up this morning and reading the news that he'd been sacked. What are the club waiting for? Holding off until the summer and wasting yet more time in securing a replacement and planning for the future would compound the mistakes.
 
Rory 7 said:
I've backed Moyes all along but the pattern here is just too compelling. He can't put back to back performances together, he is making all the wrong decisions, he is effectively blaming the squad for his own in adequacies, he plays up the 'under dog' card way too much for a club like man utd, he is turning us in to Everton.

The reality is with the team set up right we could still progress in Europe and turning around a two goal deficit could galvanise the squad to win the thing. That won't happen under Moyes but it might happen under someone else. The question for me is who could be our Roberto Di Matteo. Who could galvanise the team until May? I've given up on Moyes. He's the wrong man. We should act now, try and salvage something from the season and start again next year.

That's what we should do. But we won't.
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If he goes now, I'd expect Giggs/Robson till end of the season. Maybe even a return for Rene.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I thought there was a decent chance of waking up this morning and reading the news that he'd been sacked. What are the club waiting for? Holding off until the summer and wasting yet more time in securing a replacement and planning for the future would compound the mistakes.
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We're on an 11 day break....if I were the owner, it would look very tempting. If I were Moyes, I'd be shitting myself
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I thought there was a decent chance of waking up this morning and reading the news that he'd been sacked. What are the club waiting for? Holding off until the summer and wasting yet more time in securing a replacement and planning for the future would compound the mistakes.
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I dunno, maybe he's still in the job for lack of a better option right now? The club should be in no rush to sack him I don't think, the season can't really improve from here on in anyway. The board might bide their time 'til a quality manager becomes available. If Klopp expresses any interest in the summer I'd expect the club to be all over it like a rash.
 
Tomalonge said:
I'm starting to have serious doubts about his tenure, I still think it's too soon to sack him but if he resigned tomorrow I would respect it.
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Too soon was when he could have gone before Christmas.

I feel like he's been here long enough to earn it now.
 
Tomalonge said:
I'm starting to have serious doubts about his tenure, I still think it's too soon to sack him but if he resigned tomorrow I would respect it.
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Starting? What would be the tipping point? He's absolutely clueless. Depressingly naive and a coward.
 
bosnian_red said:
What he did at Everton has nothing to do with United though. He was good at Everton because he's good for that level, playing long ball, defensive and compact football. He was there for 10 years and Martinez has changed them more in these 8 months then Moyes ever tried doing. Moyes was satisfied to keep them at the level he got them to, and didn't even try to change it. Now he comes to United and has us playing the same way. I just think in Moyes' head, the long ball/ loads of crosses with a lot of running type football is the best style and the way forward. He just seems to stuck in his ways and is too stubborn to think he's the reason we're doing shit.
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Then he still didn't take them to their full potential. He was satisfied with his lot.
 
What I will say is that, even though there is much to criticise in terms of results and performances, whenever I see opposition fans and certain journos revelling in his struggles, and often making criticisms which are completely unfair (e.g. attacking his record at Everton, his record in the transfer market, etc) I reflexively feel like jumping to his defence.
 
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