Moyes So Far!

[Gannicus]

Feck'in hell.

Let me guess: we dominated possession so therefore we crushed the opponent, right? Stone Age thinking at its finest!

We got the win and we deserved the win. But this was nowhere near the kind of performance we need to be putting in if we hope to beat Top Three clubs. We had two good chances all game (one a pk) against a club which can barely tie its boot laces correctly.

I'll take improvement any way we can get it but we're far from being able to snatch the pebble from Master Po's hand.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

It was an okay performance and a good win. If this was a title challenging season we'd all be delighted with the win and the clean sheet. To be honest I'm just anticipating the next inevitable feck up awaiting us so I can't get too excited yet. One step forward, two steps back.

 

[Danny1982]

Must have been watching a completely different game, as they had no chances at all other then a shot from distance really, and we were in complete control of the game. Palace under Pulis have been tough to break down at home so this was a good result all around I thought. We were clearly lacking in some confidence and were a little nervy because of our bad run of form, but after the penalty you could see everyone was playing with more freedom. We were passing it around pretty well all game though, no surprise that it happens once Young and Valencia are on the bench.

Yes, I watched the actual game live, not an edited version retrospectively. These are the stats of the game I watched.

And these were the action areas during the game:

Which means the ball was actually more in our third than theirs. Also this is where the shots came from:

Which means that the notion that their shots were not dangerous because they were all long range shots, unlike ours, is completely false. (We had higher percentages of shots farther away from goal)

And those stats don't even tell the full story. Look me in the eye and tell me we looked like scoring before the penalty. In the first 15 minutes of the second half Crystal Palace were better than us. Things only changed after the penalty. We were the better team in the last 20 minutes and we had a few chances to add more goals (which is why people with weak memory think we were in control for the whole game), but before the penalty we didn't really look like scoring.

 

[Danny1982]

Feck'in hell.

When you take a look at my previous post, you'd realize how stupid you look. I hope.

 

[Keenst]

Yes, I watched the actual game live, not an edited version retrospectively. These are the stats of the game I watched.

And these were the action areas during the game:

Which means the ball was actually more in our third than theirs. Also this is where the shots came from:

Which means that the notion that their shots were not dangerous because they were all long range shots, unlike ours, is completely false. (We had higher percentages of shots farther away from goal)

And those stats don't even tell the full story. Look me in the eye and tell me we looked like scoring before the penalty. In the first 15 minutes of the second half Crystal Palace were better than us. Things only changed after the penalty. We were the better team in the last 20 minutes and we had a few chances to add more goals (which is why people with weak memory think we were in control for the whole game), but before the penalty we didn't really look like scoring.

Palace were doing a good job of getting men behind the ball and they did look dangerous on the break. Regardless of stats though, while we were shaky at the back, I always felt we were reasonably in control and felt all we needed to do was remain patient, keep probing and the goals would come, which they did in the end. I thought it was one of our most satisfying performances in a long time.

 

[RedSky]

We had two good chances all game (one a pk) against a club which can barely tie its boot laces correctly.

That club actually had the same amount of points since Tony Pullis took over as we did during the same matches having played a game less. Don't belittle the opposition. No away tie is a given for any club.

 

[Stack]

Yes, I watched the actual game live, not an edited version retrospectively. These are the stats of the game I watched.

And these were the action areas during the game:

Which means the ball was actually more in our third than theirs. Also this is where the shots came from:

Which means that the notion that their shots were not dangerous because they were all long range shots, unlike ours, is completely false. (We had higher percentages of shots farther away from goal)

And those stats don't even tell the full story. Look me in the eye and tell me we looked like scoring before the penalty. In the first 15 minutes of the second half Crystal Palace were better than us. Things only changed after the penalty. We were the better team in the last 20 minutes and we had a few chances to add more goals (which is why people with weak memory think we were in control for the whole game), but before the penalty we didn't really look like scoring.

Are these stats you collected yourself or are they provided?

 

[Danny1982]

Are these stats you collected yourself or are they provided?

They are on whoscored.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/72...ue-2013-2014-Crystal-Palace-Manchester-United

 

[Stack]

They are on whoscored.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/72...ue-2013-2014-Crystal-Palace-Manchester-United

Ok, thanks. I was hoping they were stats you gathered. I have watched games and kept my own stats and have found the Optus stats for example can be horribly flawed. I like it when people come up with their own numbers when watching.

 

[Brophs]

iPhone wanker

 

[Mockney]

I'm starting to feel sorry for him. Our club tie & suit inner lining combo is hideous.

 

[Shimo]

Not that it matters much but, if he builds upon Saturday's approach then he'll have my backing to continue. All I want is to see signs of a vision / progress between now and the end of the season to show he has the potential to be the right man for the job going forward. He's got 13 games, well hopefully at least 17, to build upon.

 

[johnmufc]

I have been one of Moyes' strongest critics, but the win at Crystal Palace was finally a good team performance. The correct balance, and quick, short passing and fluid movement.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Let me guess: we dominated possession so therefore we crushed the opponent, right? Stone Age thinking at its finest!

We got the win and we deserved the win. But this was nowhere near the kind of performance we need to be putting in if we hope to beat Top Three clubs. We had two good chances all game (one a pk) against a club which can barely tie its boot laces correctly.

I'll take improvement any way we can get it but we're far from being able to snatch the pebble from Master Po's hand.

did they not have 4 clean sheets in five or something? Think they're 7th in the table since pulis took over, they've been getting results

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Yes, I watched the actual game live, not an edited version retrospectively. These are the stats of the game I watched.

And these were the action areas during the game:

Which means the ball was actually more in our third than theirs. Also this is where the shots came from:

Which means that the notion that their shots were not dangerous because they were all long range shots, unlike ours, is completely false. (We had higher percentages of shots farther away from goal)

And those stats don't even tell the full story. Look me in the eye and tell me we looked like scoring before the penalty. In the first 15 minutes of the second half Crystal Palace were better than us. Things only changed after the penalty. We were the better team in the last 20 minutes and we had a few chances to add more goals (which is why people with weak memory think we were in control for the whole game), but before the penalty we didn't really look like scoring.

it's true we got chances towards the end of the game but this is only because palace couldn't just park the bus anymore. teams have learned that if they park the bus vs us they can get points, especially if they get a bit of luck going forward on the break. it's worked for plenty of teams so far, but didn't work out for pulis that day because our finishing was better than usual. I don't really buy that palace threatened much though, by far the closest they came was a deflected effort from a set piece, other than that they had some weak headers and shots right at de gea. I'm not saying it was a good united performance, but it was about the same performance we put in most weeks out of the last 2 months, where we dominate the game but struggle in the final 3rd

 

[Drummer]

I think that its fair to say that nobody really knows at this stage where the club is in the Moyes Project. We can no more judge the Palace result, then we can City scraping at home past stoke, neither is a reflection of how the season has gone for either club.

It was nice to see a fit team get a chance to show a bit of class and play with a bit of confidence. Mata is only here a month but he is starting to look like he may actually fit into a system (he is that good I think he would be productive wherever he was played).

I thought it was interesting to watch the players celebrate the goals. I could be wrong, but I felt there was a more together look about it. Group Bonding was just what they needed, hopefully the Dubai trip ironed out a few issues that may of been festering and harnessed friendships.

I think its too late to get 4th as it would not only involve united winning every single game until the end of the season, it would involve Liverpool to perform a anti - lazarus capitulation. Even if we presumed United beat them, that's 9 points (as we will not catch goaldifferance). they need to do a spurs and while its not improbable, I find it less likely that we will win all games and that they will drop 12 points simultaneously. .

In terms of Moyes, I am hoping that he is finally coming to terms with managing the club. I presume he knows who is in and out in the summer. He is beginning to stamp his own plans with the possible departure of Vidic and the extended contract of Rooney, which I guess may of worked out the other way around with SAF.

This summer is going to be interesting, but it would also be interesting if United tried to sign a player or two before the season is out (Bayern do it regularly) so they can start planning for next season! Perhaps a long stretch, but if we aren't fighting for 4th, it would be worth just trying out everything in the league (formations, players etc) and obviously do whatever we can in the CL.

I still don't think that there is any club in the CL that was at the level Barca were at 3 or 4 seasons ago, but United are so poor it prob doesn't matter. I do hold out for a hail Mary Chelsea champions league winning tournament, but this is nothing more then clutching at straws.

 

[Danny1982]

it's true we got chances towards the end of the game but this is only because palace couldn't just park the bus anymore. teams have learned that if they park the bus vs us they can get points, especially if they get a bit of luck going forward on the break. it's worked for plenty of teams so far, but didn't work out for pulis that day because our finishing was better than usual. I don't really buy that palace threatened much though, by far the closest they came was a deflected effort from a set piece, other than that they had some weak headers and shots right at de gea. I'm not saying it was a good united performance, but it was about the same performance we put in most weeks out of the last 2 months, where we dominate the game but struggle in the final 3rd

I didn't say they "threatened us a lot" or even "they were better than us".

All I said was that the game was still in the balance before the penalty (and in the first 15 minutes of the second half they were better imo), and could have gone either way because of moments like the penalty moment.

Our win had a lot to do with "luck" going our way this time. On another day it could have been one of those games where we draw or even lose. And like you said, we didn't win because there was a noticeable improvement in performance, it was pretty much the same kind of performance we've been putting for the last few weeks. We still found it extremely difficult to crack the defence when it was 0-0, we just didn't know what to do to score that first goal. It's just that the coin flip basically went our way this time.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

I didn't say they "threatened us a lot" or even "they were better than us".

All I said was that the game was still in the balance before the penalty (and in the first 15 minutes of the second half they were better imo), and could have gone either way because of moments like the penalty moment.

Our win had a lot to do with "luck" going our way this time. On another day it could have been one of those games where we draw or even lose. And like you said, we didn't win because there was a noticeable improvement in performance, it was pretty much the same kind of performance we've been putting for the last few weeks. We still found it extremely difficult to crack the defence when it was 0-0, we just didn't know what to do to score that first goal. It's just that the coin flip basically went our way this time.

I completely disagree. If we played the fulham match over 100 times it wouldn't be 50/50, we would win the vast majority of the time. We were struggling to break down their defenc but so do most teams when playing a really defensive unit away from home, incl city/chelsea etc. What matters is you take the sting out of their counters and take your chances when they come. In previous weeks we did neither of those things, this week we did them better and I expect that we'll keep doing them better now that rooney and rvp are back fit and firing. No the performance wasn't much different than many previous weeks, but many previous weeks we've had by far the best of it and not taken the chances that fell, as well as conceded some absurdly/unfortunate goals to concede. If we replayed the last 10 games in all comps 100 times each with the same performances, our average points total would be far above what we ended up getting, and we'd be in the final of the capital one cup more often than not too.

I'm not saying these types of performances are good, but they have been good enough to win games recently... we just haven't won the games, on the weekend we did

 

[Danny1982]

I completely disagree. If we played the fulham match over 100 times it wouldn't be 50/50, we would win the vast majority of the time. We were struggling to break down their defenc but so do most teams when playing a really defensive unit away from home, incl city/chelsea etc. What matters is you take the sting out of their counters and take your chances when they come. In previous weeks we did neither of those things, this week we did them better and I expect that we'll keep doing them better now that rooney and rvp are back fit and firing. No the performance wasn't much different than many previous weeks, but many previous weeks we've had by far the best of it and not taken the chances that fell, as well as conceded some absurdly/unfortunate goals to concede. If we replayed the last 10 games in all comps 100 times each with the same performances, our average points total would be far above what we ended up getting, and we'd be in the final of the capital one cup more often than not too.

I'm not saying these types of performances are good, but they have been good enough to win games recently... we just haven't won the games, on the weekend we did

So you're saying we weren't lucky to win our game against Palace, but rather "unlucky" to drop points against the other teams we played against in the last few weeks, but you still think our performance against Palace wasn't really good?

The thing we agree on is that our performance against Palace wasn't an improvement compared to the last few weeks, which is actually my main point. However what we disagree about is that you think we were actually "unlucky" to drop points in all those games, rather than "lucky" to come away with a win against Palace.

I disagree with you that if we replayed the last 10 games we would get different results. We have played 27 games now, and there is still no noticeable improvements in our results.. Just a steady up and down ride all the way.

We still have 11 games left in the league. If we win 9 of them then it doesn't matter how we do it, I'll just shut up and accept that we have improved, because over 11 games it becomes harder to remain delusional and blame luck for the results. But if we keep getting the same results we've been getting this season, then it's pointless to blame luck for the bad results.

 

[Bloxy]

Amazing how 1 win against a very average team who clearly wanted to defend and try to to score on the counter constitutes a good performance?
We have 3 top quality players up front, yet we looked labored.

Over the years we are used to playing against teams parking the bus so it doesn't really count as a good reason for looking shit, and possession stats against a team looking to defend means nothing.

I just don't think Moyes knows how to setup as an attacking team.

 

[SirAF]

Not that it matters much but, if he builds upon Saturday's approach then he'll have my backing to continue. All I want is to see signs of a vision / progress between now and the end of the season to show he has the potential to be the right man for the job going forward. He's got 13 games, well hopefully at least 17, to build upon.

I agree, 100 %.

 

[shaggy]

A big test of his future potential with us will be when we most likely end up against one of Europe's big guns in the next round of the CL. Whether we fold like a pack of cards and lose 8-0 or worse like Barca or actually put up a great team fight.

 

[Cheesy]

Amazing how 1 win against a very average team who clearly wanted to defend and try to to score on the counter constitutes a good performance?
We have 3 top quality players up front, yet we looked labored.

Over the years we are used to playing against teams parking the bus so it doesn't really count as a good reason for looking shit, and possession stats against a team looking to defend means nothing.

I just don't think Moyes knows how to setup as an attacking team.

Yeah, obviously it's always great to get a win but in previous years there wouldn't have been so much positivity after just one win against a lower side in the league. Not that it's not good to be pleased when we win -of course we should be- but I'll reserve judgement on improvement until we can not only hit a good run of wins but deliver against a side near or above us.

 

[marjen]

Amazing how 1 win against a very average team who clearly wanted to defend and try to to score on the counter constitutes a good performance?
We have 3 top quality players up front, yet we looked labored.

Over the years we are used to playing against teams parking the bus so it doesn't really count as a good reason for looking shit, and possession stats against a team looking to defend means nothing.

I just don't think Moyes knows how to setup as an attacking team.

It was laboured but it was progress in the way we tried to play, even if it didn't come off it still showed some sort of intent, which is what I've been missing competely so far this season.

It will get better in time, but only if we play a system that plays to the strengths of the players and not Valencia-ball.

 

[fishfingers15]

So you're saying we weren't lucky to win our game against Palace, but rather "unlucky" to drop points against the other teams we played against in the last few weeks, but you still think our performance against Palace wasn't really good?

The thing we agree on is that our performance against Palace wasn't an improvement compared to the last few weeks, which is actually my main point. However what we disagree about is that you think we were actually "unlucky" to drop points in all those games, rather than "lucky" to come away with a win against Palace.

I disagree with you that if we replayed the last 10 games we would get different results. We have played 27 games now, and there is still no noticeable improvements in our results.. Just a steady up and down ride all the way.

We still have 11 games left in the league. If we win 9 of them then it doesn't matter how we do it, I'll just shut up and accept that we have improved, because over 11 games it becomes harder to remain delusional and blame luck for the results. But if we keep getting the same results we've been getting this season, then it's pointless to blame luck for the bad results.

I think the overall point that the other posters are trying to put across is, even if we had lost against Palace or drew the match, the team performance was a damn sight better than the endless crossing and just mindless passing between ourselves.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Amazing how 1 win against a very average team who clearly wanted to defend and try to to score on the counter constitutes a good performance?
We have 3 top quality players up front, yet we looked labored.

Over the years we are used to playing against teams parking the bus so it doesn't really count as a good reason for looking shit, and possession stats against a team looking to defend means nothing.

I just don't think Moyes knows how to setup as an attacking team.

At least we played a bit differently. This seasoned we've been played laughable football. We're hanging on to anything positive that comes our way.

 

[van der star]

We'll be easy picking for the big teams in Europe if we play against them the way we played against Palace. Our tactics looked a lot better than what we'd seen previously but we're nowhere near the levels of Bayern, RM or even PSG. We'd need a radical change in our playing style to manage a decent showing in the latter stages of the CL. I feel that Moyes should have given more priority to the FA cup and tried to win it to make it easier on himself.

 

[fishfingers15]

It was laboured but it was progress in the way we tried to play, even if it didn't come off it still showed some sort of intent, which is what I've been missing competely so far this season.

It will get better in time, but only if we play a system that plays to the strengths of the players and not Valencia-ball.

Let's see Moyes' line up for the Olympiakos game. If he's willing to use Kagawa or will stick with Valencia or Young. Even if Young or Valencia play, I hope we play like we did against Palace. Cohesion will improve with familiarity.

 

[Blue always red]

Let's see Moyes' line up for the Olympiakos game. If he's willing to use Kagawa or will stick with Valencia or Young. Even if Young or Valencia play, I hope we play like we did against Palace. Cohesion will improve with familiarity.

Agree, the more we play a fluid system the more we will improve with it. I think he'll play with Kagawa on the left and one of Valencia/Young/Januzaj on the right.

 

[Shimo]

Let's see Moyes' line up for the Olympiakos game. If he's willing to use Kagawa or will stick with Valencia or Young. Even if Young or Valencia play, I hope we play like we did against Palace. Cohesion will improve with familiarity.

If he plays Kagawa then I'll really question why he wasn't brought on at all in the CP game or in the previous games. If Kagawa is in his plans for the CL then he should have been given minutes and it would be highly irresponsible to start him after hardly playing any football in the last month or so.

 

[fishfingers15]

If he plays Kagawa then I'll really question why he wasn't brought on at all in the CP game or in the previous games. If Kagawa is in his plans for the CL then he should have been given minutes and it would be highly irresponsible to start him after hardly playing any football in the last month or so.

Fair point, but someone just mentioned Fellaini playing the full game and Kagawa may not be required to play the entire match.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Andy Mitten was saying a few weeks ago that Kagawa is very much in Moyes' plans with regards to the Champions League.

 

[datura]

it would be highly irresponsible to start him after hardly playing any football in the last month or so.

Why?

 

[Shimo]

Why?

Because he has been fit and if you are starting have plans to start a player in such an important match then you don't give him 20 minutes of game time in a month and then expect a good performance.

 

[soapythecat]

Palace under Pulis are no pushovers , especially at home. We did well to get 3 points given our form going into the match. A much improved midfield performance. If SAF was still in charge, or Mourinho had pulled off that result, there would be many on here hailing their tactical genius abilities. But no, it's Moyes so we won't judge the performance on what we saw but delve into stats to throw at him.
And we give RAWK shit. ..

 

[datura]

Because he has been fit and if you are starting have plans to start a player in such an important match then you don't give him 20 minutes of game time in a month and then expect a good performance.

It's not really irresponsible though? The player is fit and no real reason for him not to play well if selected. Fellaini and Ferdinand have proven that.

 

[Shimo]

It's not really irresponsible though? The player is fit and no real reason for him not to play well if selected. Fellaini and Ferdinand have proven that.

Maybe semantics but, to me it is. He has a plan in his mind of playing Kagawa then he should have got him playing time. Rio was a forced decision and Fellaini is not the same case in that he was going to play him soon as he was available. Yes, players can play well after coming off a lay off but, we've clearly seen Kagawa hasn't really had great form so far, so to just expect him to be good in an important game would not be a very smart or responsible act.

Again my opinion is based on if Kagawa in Moyes mind is always going to have started the game tomorrow if fit. To not get him some match fitness and confidence before hand ... if irresponsible is the wrong word, then whatever it is - it's a bad bit of management.

P.S. This opinion isn't based on me wanting rid of Moyes or that I hate Moyes. I'd say the same thing if Fergie or any other manager did it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

We showed patience for once. Previous games against teams who want to defend against us, we have not shown any and have tried to force the game by lumping the ball in continuously. Hopefully they have now learnt their lesson. It was nice seeing the ball going more down the middle. Thought Fellaini did well. Liked the fact he played Rooney, RVP. Mata and Januzaj all in one team. Will be happier when Rafael back and Smalling reverts back to being a CB.

 

[rio's upper lip]

Not that it matters much but, if he builds upon Saturday's approach then he'll have my backing to continue. All I want is to see signs of a vision / progress between now and the end of the season to show he has the potential to be the right man for the job going forward. He's got 13 games, well hopefully at least 17, to build upon.

Even for a shit season it's really flown by. Can't believe we have so few games left.

 

[Sir Matt]

It was a better performance than our usual under Moyes, but I don't think we dominated them. I really wasn't sure we'd score until the penalty. We didn't really look like it apart from maybe one chance before that. RVP wasn't getting any service and our players were all over top of each other in the final third.

In the end, it's one game and means nothing. We've had decent games since Moyes took over but never continuity of results or performances.