Moyes So Far!

[gasmanc]

Interesting that the tactics used were SO didn't to that previously employed.

It was strange, at times I thought we were actively trying to avoid the wings and cross it in.
If this is a genuine change of style then one off these things have happened:

• Moyes listened to criticism of style (why suddenly now?) And actively changed.
• Moyes never set them up to be down the wings so much and is the players that actively decided to change and go with what moyes really wanted... maybe after getting some confidence back after arsenal.
• Players forced moyes to change tactics and they all had it out in dubai
• Moyes forced players to change tactics and they all had it out in dubai

In not sure if any one of them is good. .. or that all of then would be good... Does that make sense?
Is an unusual change of style so quickly.. Although, arguably we saw it against arsenal a bit so maybe it was a reaction to the Fulham game and they've got.a bit more confident.

Tactically, the most promising thing about yesterday was the role mata was given. It was such a free role, something so different to what I've come to expect from a moyes team. He was all over the place and it constantly have us an extra dimension.

The final ball to rvp was lacking, but that will come with time/confidence

Good post, Mata was very noticeably given a free role, one thing that was also evident was Fellaini at times would go and play behind/alongside the striker. We saw Rooney or Mata drop deeper and the giant would head forward giving us another option, I know Fellaini played up there is probably the cafs biggest fear but it gave the Palace defenders a different problem and it happened seamlessly and we reverted to him sitting behind the 3 just as easily.
We had a good controlled game with the ball, the combination play between Rooney and Mata looks like gelling instantly, it was also Fellaini (surprisingly) providing a third link to attack. Often the play was with Carrick and Fellaini sitting and the front 4 moving the ball around but a lot of the play came from Carricks feet. We have everything in place to play attractive football if we can get more movement from our forward players, creating triangles constantly we will flourish. The one major surprise from yesterday was Fellaini interchanging intelligently with Mata and Rooney, I couldn't believe what I was seeing at times and the big lump could well be key to us finishing strongly and having a punt at the CL.

 

[MDFC Manager]

My context is its one game - lets not go overboard yet.

Who exactly is going overboard though?

The biggest positive i saw was that there was minimal anxiousness about our play. That break away in the sun seems to have helped a bit.

 

[marjen]

I like the look of the setup from yesterday. Januzaj stayed wide but had license to roam naturally, van Persie tried to get in behind, Rooney and Mata came inside/deeper and helped Carrick by always providing a safe out ball and Fellaini therefore had license to get forward, playing a more box-to-box role.

When Rafael's back and we get a genuine right back who loves to attack I'll imagine we'll look even better. Smalling tried to get in behind and stretch play, but he lacks the attacking quality.

Januzaj/Evra/Rafael's enough outlets for us not to loose the option of going wide, while Rooney/Mata/Carrick/Januzaj all are so comfortable on the ball we should be able to dominate most opponents possession wise.

What I missed yesterday was runners in behind. We need our right back, Mata, Rooney, RvP and Fellaini to try and get in behind the defence with better timing, but I'm sure that will come as we adjust to this slightly new formation.

 

[Revan]

We met Crystal Palace and we hardly produced anything worth to mention before the lucky penalty. After one up we still were ineffective and one dimensional, Ronneys goal was class but our play was still average.

I take the points and hope this is a step in the right direction, but God should know we have a long long way to go.

It had nothing to do with luck, it was a classic penalty. We played well and the lineup was good. I don't think that the 'crisis' is over but yesterday was good, in both performance and result.

 

[marjen]

We were patient and kept the ball high up the pitch, looking for openings, and eventually found them.

Contrast this approach to the game against Fulham where we lacked control of their counter attacks and made it very, very easy to defend against us - two lucky balls that fell for us gave us a couple of goals but we didn't look like creating anything.

And Palace is a hell of a lot better organized than Fulham.

 

[Smores]

I really hope we don't get any more injuries, finally got people back fit and amost in reasonable form. I'm expecting a good run from here on in. Rafael will improve us up front and defensively.

First time we've looked like we had a plan....which was nice

 

[7even]

In a "must twist everything negatively" way. Typical of the poster in question.

He he.... and the opposite is ;-)

We are currently a mid table team and have problem to create more then five shots against Palace. I will give credit when we deserve it.

 

[Timdbro]

I'm happy we showed a bit more patience in possession rather than chucking it in the box, but defensively I don't think we should overrate these two performances. We sat very deep against Arsenal and invited pressure, and ended up getting lucky on a few occasions. Similarly against palace, we were higher up but looked fragile on set pieces and when we lost the ball, and only looked more comfortable late on.

 

[Shark]

I'm happy we showed a bit more patience in possession rather than chucking it in the box, but defensively I don't think we should overrate these two performances. We sat very deep against Arsenal and invited pressure, and ended up getting lucky on a few occasions. Similarly against palace, we were higher up but looked fragile on set pieces and when we lost the ball, and only looked more comfortable late on.

The thing is, I don't think that a single United fan would want to see us put a stop to crossing the ball and play like Barca. It's part of our DNA as a club to have pacy wingers and to wip them in, I have absolutely nothing against it. However, what I do want to see, is a bit of what we did yesterday. Mix it up and as a result, become less predictable going forward. We clearly have the attacking players to do so.

 

[pocco]

There's no surprise in the way we played yesterday. Moyes had already said this is the way he wanted to play, just most people didn't listen.

We probably won't see it every week as we're going to have to rely on players that don't fit into this system, but hopefully we can continue to play with confidence and assurity on the ball.

 

[Pexbo]

Yeah, Pexy. Strange as it might sound (considering he's such a self-absorbed person), a big-time player like Zlatan might make a Cantona-esque difference for the team.

I'd love to see him here, he'd be worshiped by our fans if he was managed right in the changing rooms.

I think as much as anything though, I'm talking about a player that can create out of nothing. Like Nani used to. The predictability of our play is what is killing us. The opposition can drill all week to set up for us and it pans out as they expect.

 

[Shark]

There's no surprise in the way we played yesterday. Moyes had already said this is the way he wanted to play, just most people didn't listen.

We probably won't see it every week as we're going to have to rely on players that don't fit into this system, but hopefully we can continue to play with confidence and assurity on the ball.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really buy the fact that the likes of Valencia and Young can't at least try and adapt to the system that Moyes is supposedly trying to adapt. Young isn't great, but he's shown that he can link up well and Valencia isn't a robot of a player that that's only capable of hitting the ball as hard as he can into opposition' shin pads. He could easily be more than that, but at the end of the day, it's up to the manager to instil the tactics.

 

[pocco]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't really buy the fact that the likes of Valencia and Young can't at least try and adapt to the system that Moyes is supposedly trying to adapt. Young isn't great, but he's shown that he can link up well and Valencia isn't a robot of a player that that's only capable of hitting the ball as hard as he can into opposition' shin pads. He could easily be more than that, but at the end of the day, it's up to the manager to instil the tactics.

Young, maybe. Valencia is a bit one dimensional though in that all he really excels at is going down the wing and whipping balls in, which isn't really how we played yesterday. I just can't picture Valencia cutting inside and playing the ball about.

 

[Shark]

Young, maybe. Valencia is a bit one dimensional though in that all he really excels at is going down the wing and whipping balls in, which isn't really how we played yesterday. I just can't picture Valencia cutting inside and playing the ball about.

Neither can I, but it'd be at least worth a try from Moyes to try and conjure something else from him, anything else but what he's currently doing. He isn't a shit player, that's for sure. A lot of people seem to forget that he was once talked about as one of our best and most important players a few seasons back.

 

[Timdbro]

The thing is, I don't think that a single United fan would want to see us put a stop to crossing the ball and play like Barca. It's part of our DNA as a club to have pacy wingers and to wip them in, I have absolutely nothing against it. However, what I do want to see, is a bit of what we did yesterday. Mix it up and as a result, become less predictable going forward. We clearly have the attacking players to do so.

I meant chucking like throwing it in fairly aimlessly, as we had been doing plenty of. As you say, I doubt any of us has a problem with crosses aimed at an open striker in behind the defence, or a cut back like Evra's for Rooney's goal. But I really couldn't stand when we were slowly getting it wide, the defence was all set and ready to head the ball away and we were just crossing aimlessly. In those situations, I'd much rather we work the ball back around, pull defenders out of position and look for the opening. If anything, crossing so early in possession when the defenders are all in position does the opposition a favour.

 

[adexkola]

Neither can I, but it'd be at least worth a try from Moyes to try and conjure something else from him, anything else but what he's currently doing. He isn't a shit player, that's for sure. A lot of people seem to forget that he was once talked about as one of our best and most important players a few seasons back.

He was, but even back then he was one dimensional. Defenders and teams just couldn't stop him back then, but they have adjusted, and now he can't switch things up.

 

[Amir]

moyes will still be the man with the final decisions, but it would be a big help to have someone with brilliant football knowledge beside you helping with the decisions. got to say steve round might be considered as one of the best young coaches in england but we need an upgrade here. phil neville is another one learning and he will thrive it. but for the moment moyes needs a top top assistant. queiroz if available would be a brilliant choice. being the manager of the Iranian natioanal squad, i think he can work with 2 jobs if we offer him a role here. i know he will be a busy man but why not try?.

Carlos did well for us, but whose to say Round isn't better? Lets remember Kidd, I think, was working with young players around Manchester when Fergie brought him in and McLaren was plucked out of Derby County, while Queiroz wasn't popular among fans early on because it was felt his style was too defensive. How on earth can we judge Round not to be good enough?

 

[Danny1982]

Better result yesterday, no improvement in the performance department. Never looked in control at 0-0. Could have easily lost or drawn.

 

[Gannicus]

Better result yesterday, no improvement in the performance department. Never looked in control at 0-0. Could have easily lost or drawn.

This.

The final score flattered us. Palace sat back for the ugly draw but we had a hard time breaking them down. A foul in the box on a play that probably would not have led to anything gave us the first goal. Palace then opened up and a wonderful strike gave us the earned and deserved victory, but we're still far from out of the woods in terms of our persistent inability to break down a disciplined fortress of a lower table side.

 

[bosnian_red]

Better result yesterday, no improvement in the performance department. Never looked in control at 0-0. Could have easily lost or drawn.

Must have been watching a completely different game, as they had no chances at all other then a shot from distance really, and we were in complete control of the game. Palace under Pulis have been tough to break down at home so this was a good result all around I thought. We were clearly lacking in some confidence and were a little nervy because of our bad run of form, but after the penalty you could see everyone was playing with more freedom. We were passing it around pretty well all game though, no surprise that it happens once Young and Valencia are on the bench.

 

[alastair]

United were slightly better than usual but I'm still not very convinced I see any kind of long term vision within this team.

No football team with the players United have are going to lose game after game. They'll win some, especially against sides like Palace that really did very little last night to trouble anyone.

There are still issues. There's still a bizarre lack of cohesion up top given the quality that exists there. I'm not worried about the renaissance yet.

 

[Getsme]

The final score flattered us.

How? We won 2-0 hit the cross bar and had a shot cleared off the line. We limited them to very few chances.

Palace sat back for the ugly draw but we had a hard time breaking them down.

And yet we won 2-0 and you don't think there was an improvement on our performance? Did you expect us to win by 5 or 6 against a Palace team with a very good defensive record since Pullis took over?

. A foul in the box on a play that probably would not have led to anything gave us the first goal.

I know, I have know idea why refs give penalties for fouls like that, it ridiculous. I would have charged Evra for wasting the refs time.

Palace then opened up and a wonderful strike gave us the earned and deserved victory, but we're still far from out of the woods in terms of our persistent inability to break down a disciplined fortress of a lower table side.

So our persistent play which resulted in a goal forced Palace to break their formation in order to find an equaliser. I'd call that a pretty decent plan.
You're entire post is laughable.

 

[Chabon]

United were slightly better than usual but I'm still not very convinced I see any kind of long term vision within this team.

No football team with the players United have are going to lose game after game. They'll win some, especially against sides like Palace that really did very little last night to trouble anyone.

There are still issues. There's still a bizarre lack of cohesion up top given the quality that exists there. I'm not worried about the renaissance yet.

We're just a crap version of the side we were last year.

 

[Getsme]

United were slightly better than usual but I'm still not very convinced I see any kind of long term vision within this team.

No football team with the players United have are going to lose game after game. They'll win some, especially against sides like Palace that really did very little last night to trouble anyone.

There are still issues. There's still a bizarre lack of cohesion up top given the quality that exists there. I'm not worried about the renaissance yet.

I'm just glad we finally saw something, no matter how small it was.
It looks like we're stuck with Moyes for at least another season, if he's finally starting to put his stamp on the team then I'm all for encouraging it, it can't be any worse than the dross he has gave us so far.

 

[Shark]

Better result yesterday, no improvement in the performance department. Never looked in control at 0-0. Could have easily lost or drawn.

This.

The final score flattered us. Palace sat back for the ugly draw but we had a hard time breaking them down. A foul in the box on a play that probably would not have led to anything gave us the first goal. Palace then opened up and a wonderful strike gave us the earned and deserved victory, but we're still far from out of the woods in terms of our persistent inability to break down a disciplined fortress of a lower table side.

Feck'in hell.

 

[fishfingers15]

United were slightly better than usual but I'm still not very convinced I see any kind of long term vision within this team.

No football team with the players United have are going to lose game after game. They'll win some, especially against sides like Palace that really did very little last night to trouble anyone.

There are still issues. There's still a bizarre lack of cohesion up top given the quality that exists there. I'm not worried about the renaissance yet.

We've been so hopelessly out of form for the last few games. It's not just slightly better, but it's miles better. Honestly, we could have lost yesterday and still most of us here would probably think that it's a better game by the team. Cohesion will come with more and more games. Honestly nobody was expecting us to become world beaters this season.

You have nothing to worry about Man Utd this season, but you have to nothing to worry about any team anyway. You'll be out of CL, and most probably end up trophyless.

 

[Dominos]

United were slightly better than usual but I'm still not very convinced I see any kind of long term vision within this team.

No football team with the players United have are going to lose game after game. They'll win some, especially against sides like Palace that really did very little last night to trouble anyone.

There are still issues. There's still a bizarre lack of cohesion up top given the quality that exists there. I'm not worried about the renaissance yet.

Have to agree. To be honest I didn't see us scoring until they needlessly gifted us a pen with a stupid tackle.

This strikes me as another false dawn if people are that pleased with what we saw yesterday. We can't be as bad for the rest of the season than we have been since the new year, but even if we win 9 out of the last 11, I'm not going to get excited about our future prospects under Moyes. If he's taken us down this far already who knows how far he can take us once he sells 8 players in the summer and doesn't have CL football to attract his targets.

 

[Silent_Running]

He he.... and the opposite is ;-)

We are currently a mid table team and have problem to create more then five shots against Palace. I will give credit when we deserve it.

You act like we have an inherent right to beat teams like Palace. You don't sound like a football fan, you sound like someone who just wants to see us win comfortably every week, which in reality never happens to any team. Give credit where it's due.

 

[7even]

You act like we have an inherent right to beat teams like Palace. You don't sound like a football fan, you sound like someone who just wants to see us win comfortably every week, which in reality never happens to any team. Give credit where it's due.

Wow! Suddenly I'm not a football fan because I think we should beat Palace. Who am I who dare to criticize our manager. Who thinks that this season we play dull uninspired football. I just saw Pool beat Swansea. Great entertainment even if I hate the bloody red YAWN team.

 

[Silent_Running]

Wow! Suddenly I'm not a football fan because I think we should beat Palace. Who am I who dare to criticize our manager. Who thinks that this season we play dull uninspired football. I just saw Pool beat Swansea. Great entertainment even if I hate the bloody red YAWN team.

You sound so spoilt. Try going to Ewood Park or The Reebok every week for a while and you might start to appreciate how lucky you are as a United fan.

We've truly been blessed for over 20 years; you literally couldn't have asked for more in recent times, and even in a bad year we're challenging for the Europa League getting to watch players like Van Persie, Januzaj Carrick (you should see the way Tugay is revered at Rovers and Carrick is even better) and now Mata every week.

One relatively poor season and you start whinging and whining even when we win.

By the way, I have no issue with anybody criticising the manager, despite the fact I think he needs at least 3 years, and particularly the players, but criticising us after a win when we were dominant just seems so negative to me.

 

[Blue always red]

Our goals are very rarely well worked team goals. Last season, the season before and this season we still rely too much on individual brilliance and the truth of the matter is the individual brilliance we rely on just hasn't cut it this season.

I'd ask anybody to argue the point that we were a cohesive unit last season and it wasn't the performances of Carrick, RVP, De Gea and somewhat Rooney that won us the league.

 

[Silent_Running]

Our goals are very rarely well worked team goals. Last season, the season before and this season we still rely too much on individual brilliance and the truth of the matter is the individual brilliance we rely on just hasn't cut it this season.

I'd ask anybody to argue the point that we were a cohesive unit last season and it wasn't the performances of Carrick, RVP, De Gea and somewhat Rooney that won us the league.

You're absolutely right, and it's frustrating because we have the potential to play fantastic football. Still, we have our moments.

 

[Barney]

United were slightly better than usual but I'm still not very convinced I see any kind of long term vision within this team.

No football team with the players United have are going to lose game after game. They'll win some, especially against sides like Palace that really did very little last night to trouble anyone.

There are still issues. There's still a bizarre lack of cohesion up top given the quality that exists there. I'm not worried about the renaissance yet.

Sums up my thoughts on the game. Big Three points as it keeps you in the hunt for Europa league (and that's not me having a dig, I think European football would be a good thing for Moyes).

 

[RoadTrip]

The problem with Valencia is not that he doesn't cut in. Plenty of times he runs down the wings. Plenty of times he comes inside. Plenty of times he stops the ball and looks for options.

The problem with Valencia is therefore not that he doesn't do those things, but his lack of ability to execute them primarily driven by the fact he cannot use his left foot.

He cuts in and because he can't use his left foot, he plays a safe call back to Carrick. There is no risk of him taking a shot, or crossing the ball, or even playing a simple pass to an available player with his left foot. This is what fundamentally limits him as a player.

 

[RoadTrip]

You're absolutely right, and it's frustrating because we have the potential to play fantastic football. Still, we have our moments.

Seconded. I can't remember since we had the fantastic trio of Tevez Rooney and Ronaldo really creating a team goal. We played great football when we had them.

Since then I only remember draw dropping moments of individual brilliance. Rarely have we truly scored a great team goal which was scored by cohesive short yet simple passes cutting through a defence through movement and instinctivity. Instead we rely too heavily on killer passes or a fantastic final ball met with a brilliant individual finish.

 

[#07]

We've been working hard in training. Making sure we keep the ball better around their penalty box and then trying to create chances. I thought we did it quite well. It can better but I thought we did well and I’m really pleased (Wayne Rooney, link).

Seems that the change of approach was planned, which means that until recently we haven't been working on keeping the ball around the box better and carving out chances.

Don't know whether to be happy, worried or both. At least Moyes seems to have cottoned on to the fact that we cant cross ourselves to victory now...

 

[Mozza]

He he.... and the opposite is ;-)

We are currently a mid table team and have problem to create more then five shots against Palace. I will give credit when we deserve it.

Man City had 19 shots with 7 on target at home to Stoke compared to our 14 & 5 away at Palace, midtable or top of the league against teams that defend deep its tough

 

[Dominos]

Seems that the change of approach was planned, which means that until recently we haven't been working on keeping the ball around the box better and carving out chances.

Don't know whether to be happy, worried or both. At least Moyes seems to have cottoned on to the fact that we cant cross ourselves to victory now...

I've been saying it's a coaching issue all season.

As much as people like to put it down to this, City haven't scored so many goals simply by throwing a load of good players in the team.

 

[7even]

You sound so spoilt. Try going to Ewood Park or The Reebok every week for a while and you might start to appreciate how lucky you are as a United fan.

We've truly been blessed for over 20 years; you literally couldn't have asked for more in recent times, and even in a bad year we're challenging for the Europa League getting to watch players like Van Persie, Januzaj Carrick (you should see the way Tugay is revered at Rovers and Carrick is even better) and now Mata every week.

One relatively poor season and you start whinging and whining even when we win.

By the way, I have no issue with anybody criticising the manager, despite the fact I think he needs at least 3 years, and particularly the players, but criticising us after a win when we were dominant just seems so negative to me.

I appreciate they way you approach this discussion and in general I agree with you, sometime I'm to negative regarding Moyes and our results. But the reason why I'm so critical is because I care so much, it's annoying to week after week see us perform below normal standard and IMHO our manager and his staff is very much responsible for this seasons decline.

Before I continue my criticisms I just want to add that I have great respect for every club in the PL but United should nine times out of ten beat Palace by a couple of goals. It's from that perspective I judge our performance.

I don't think any manager should have three years before we judge him, not even two years. He should be judged from day one and if he doesn't deliver he should be replaced. The hard question is when it's time to draw a line.

As long as we, in any shape or form, progress then he should be giving time but so far I haven't seen anything that suggest we moving forward. Beating Palace by two goals doesn't change this. Before the penalty we where predictable and slow in our build up, our passing was more side way then penetrating and apart from Fellaini's chance we didn't do anything that encouraged me. We had lots of possession but where still quite toothless in the final third.

Fellaini had a good game by his standard but for a £27m player he was average. It's not his fault but for me he's just a good squad player if we want to compete with City and Chelsea. I actually like him but I can't see him as a answer to our midfield problems.

Against Fulham we attacked from the wings, this game we attackers more in the middle. For me it's a sign of weakness that's Moyes tactic change so much from game after game. It looks that he hasn't have a clear idea how to penetrate oppositions from the bottom half. That's worrying and something tells me he's not a tactical genius.

I agree with those who thinks he needs a new assistant manager, someone with a more modern approach of the game and better tactical knowledge. Compared to Liverpool and Swansea we looked pedestrian and out of date regarding tactic, set up and tempo. The only person to blame for this is David Moyes and his staff.

But let's end with something positive. Mata's new role this game was far better then against Fulham. That's progress :-)

 

[freshibal]

Whatever has happened is in the past now, I dont care if Moyes is a tactical genius or not. as long as he keeps on improving and the team keeps on improving then there will be no complaints from me.