Moyes So Far!

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Well its not utterly meaningless to me.

So what IS the meaning? That we got something on the night that for some reason we haven't in other 30-odd matches?

Looking at our CL matches, we've done very well in both games against Leverkusen. Against Sociedad we were ok to good without being brilliant twice and against Shakhtar we struggled twice. Maybe it wasn't us, but them.
 
Jesus.....No one has said he should be sold!!!!!

I said, in my opinion, he is overrated on here...And someone comes along and twists it into, "OMG, people want our Rafa sold!?!?!"

It's like the office of the sun news paper around here....Christ, "Rossi slams Rafael after he attacks him with a baseball bat!"
Ha ha, my bad.
 
I think what you are seeing is just how big a task is before David Moyes. Managing Manchester United is a monumental step up and without sounding insincere but he definitely needs time to find his feet. I'm hoping that next season we are going to playing some very exciting football.
 
I'm hoping that next season we are going to playing some very exciting football.

I'm hoping that next season we play exciting football and then win the treble 10 years in a row.

But I see no evidence leading to any of it being possible. None.
 
I'm hoping that next season we play exciting football and then win the treble 10 years in a row.

But I see no evidence leading to any of it being possible. None.

There have been evidences. Our play has been exciting whenever we have moved the ball creatively and dynamically through the central midfield. The Swansea second half, the Leverkusen games, Fulham at craven cottage are some of the examples. The much maligned Valencia also looked better than he has been in those games. I believe with some added dynamism in the central midfield area we would see a mark improvement in our so called "style of play".
 
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I would say the signing of Juan Mata is pretty solid evidence that we might play some very exciting football in the future. Ditto the emergence of Januzaj.
Might being the key word, we're none the wiser with regards Moyes and where he hopes to take us really, and in what way.
 
Yup, them aided with a younger defense and better midfielders there is no reason we won't.

I am not so worried about the "style of play" tbh. A style that wins is the best "style of play". The best teams adapt according the opposition and the game situation. I would take a mentally stronger, intelligent team with belief over a style team any day of the week.

The "style of play" talk on this forum actually amuses me. It's funny that the people who would claim that 'style of play' is more important to them than winning in this thread, would then go in the Mourinho thread and cry that we didn't sign him as our manager last summer. What is Jose's "style of play"? When have his teams played exhilarating football on a consistent basis? He wins, and that is why is hailed as the best manager in the world.
 
I love the optimism, but it's a bit blind. There's no reason for the current team not to play better football on a regular basis, not just a game here or 20 minutes there. Better players in needed positions will make it better, but I doubt it will be as good as the sums of its parts. Just like the current team is not.
 
I love the optimism, but it's a bit blind. There's no reason for the current team not to play better football on a regular basis, not just a game here or 20 minutes there. Better players in needed positions will make it better, but I doubt it will be as good as the sums of its parts. Just like the current team is not.

Exactly....The goal we scored against Spurs at OT came from Januzaj going against the grain and playing a brilliant ball through the middle. Excellent vision!...He comes on against Fulham and all we do is get him to cross.

Moyes has a chance to experiment now in my view. Personally, I could careless where we finish now. We're not winning the league, we're not getting 4th and we're not in a relegation battle so in a way, "pressure" is off. Go and mix it up!
 
The "style of play" talk on this forum actually amuses me. It's funny that the people who would claim that 'style of play' is more important to them than winning in this thread, would then go in the Mourinho thread and cry that we didn't sign him as our manager last summer. What is Jose's "style of play"? When have his teams played exhilarating football on a consistent basis? He wins, and that is why is hailed as the best manager in the world.

I think it's more a case of people wanting something to hang on to, some hope that Moyes is going to get things right. I'm still backing Moyes but it's more based on the fact that he's Fergie's choice than any real belief that he's going to turn things around.
 
". The best teams adapt according the opposition and the game situation. I would take a mentally stronger, intelligent team with belief over a style team any day of the week..

The best teams make the opposition adapt, Barcelona, Bayern, Madrid all keep their style, no matter who they're playing. Barcelona made City change their style when playing at home, a team that have scored over 100 goals this season were forced to play defensively due to Barcelona's passing style.
You also say you're not worried about our style of play as the best style is one that wins.
Then why aren't you worried?

The "style of play" talk on this forum actually amuses me. It's funny that the people who would claim that 'style of play' is more important to them than winning in this thread, would then go in the Mourinho thread and cry that we didn't sign him as our manager last summer. What is Jose's "style of play"? When have his teams played exhilarating football on a consistent basis? He wins, and that is why is hailed as the best manager in the world.
Where has people said style of play is more important than winning? What people have actually said is they would like Moyes to implement his own style into the team instead of playing one dimensional predictable football. If this meant that we had to lose a few meaningless games to get us up and going for next season then so be it.



would then go in the Mourinho thread and cry that we didn't sign him as our manager last summer. What is Jose's "style of play"? When have his teams played exhilarating football on a consistent basis? He wins, and that is why is hailed as the best manager in the world.
Hailed as the best manager in the World :lol:
People respect Mourinho, not only for what he has achieved in the game but for his win at all costs mentality, whats wrong with that?. However many on here don’t want him as our manager, even if Moyes does get the sack.
BTW Mourinho's style of play is mainly fast counter attack football, a style we played for many years, they are currently top of the league, 15 points ahead of us, have beaten City at home and taken 4 points of us. Just saying.
 
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Lovely words from Carlos

(Reuters) - Manchester United have no chance of winning the title season but manager David Moyes must be given more time to settle into the job, the club's former assistant coach Carlos Queiroz said on Thursday.

"It's sure they won't be able to win the title this season but one thing I have not doubt about is that they will still hand out some nightmares and headaches before the end of the campaign," the former Real Madrid and Portugal coach, who is now preparing to take Iran to the World Cup finals in Brazil, told reporters.

"It's not my old team, it's my team," he said in answer to a question at the pre-World Cup workshop about the form of the club where he worked under Alex Ferguson.

"Of course I still care. We'll be there, don't worry, just give us a little bit of time we'll be there. David (Moyes) will be fine."
 
BTW Mourinho's style of play is mainly fast counter attack football, a style we played for many years, they are currently top of the league, 15 points ahead of us, have beaten City at home and taken 4 points of us. Just saying.

Really?, you sure of that?
 
Disappointed like most, quite a cathartic experience. But with a kind draw in the Champions League we might have a shout, and I also have a feeling that a few teams above us will start losing points, maybe making it a bit more close for fourth than it looks at the moment.
 
The best teams make the opposition adapt, Barcelona, Bayern, Madrid all keep their style, no matter who they're playing. Barcelona made City change their style when playing at home, a team that have scored over 100 goals this season were forced to play defensively due to Barcelona's passing style.
You also say you're not worried about our style of play as the best style is one that wins.
Then why aren't you worried?

We won a lot under Sir Alex playing with two wide players and crossing the ball. Then why does everyone want to change that? Styles are often defined by the players rather than vice-versa. Also, let's not talk about exceptional circumstances where we have a once in a life-time Barcelona/Bayern teams. It's hard to build a special team on a consistent basis. Those kind of things happen once in a generation, most of the time you try play to your core strengths but at the same adapt to nullify the opposition.

I am worried. In fact, I have become very skeptical about Moyes' managerial stint at this club. I believe that the current squad, despite it's obvious weakness, still should have competed for the title rather than languished at 7th. In any sport mentality counts as much if not more than talent and we have shown unprecedented weakness at times. There were times this season when we had opportunities to build momentum and we repeatedly failed. I don't think Moyes has done enough to inspire confidence in the players and some of his statements show that the pressure of managing United may be a little too much for him. His squad rotation and subs have also left much to be desired.

Where has people said style of play is more important than winning? What people have actually said is they would like Moyes to implement his own style into the team instead of playing one dimensional predictable football. If this meant that we had to lose a few meaningless games to get us up and going for next season then so be it.

Different threads are littered with posts from people saying that. I don't think you would have to look very hard to find them.

What style should he implement? A style that every 442/zonalmarking reading yuppie, who knows too much about football, wants him to? Where does he win with that? Who should he try to please? Poster X or Poster Y. Style will come with better players and winning. Easier to play with style when you are winning. Losing sows seeds of doubt and that is why we see a tentative United team in the premier league. In Europe we have played consistently well this season.

Hailed as the best manager in the World :lol:
People respect Mourinho, not only for what he has achieved in the game but for his win at all costs mentality, whats wrong with that?. However many on here don’t want him as our manager, even if Moyes does get the sack.
BTW Mourinho's style of play is mainly fast counter attack football, a style we played for many years, they are currently top of the league, 15 points ahead of us, have beaten City at home and taken 4 points of us. Just saying.

There is nothing wrong with that. I didn't question his status as one of the better managers in world football. What I find amusing is the paradox in wanting a style and also Jose as our manager. As the two don't coincide. Hell, even Sir Alex would have been chastised for the "pragmatic" approach Jose adopted at OT earlier in the season. A game where he went in with a 'don't lose' policy rather then try to turn on a "style".

We have been criticized constantly over the past few years for playing in a similar way and with similar set-ups to Chelsea of this season. Where more often than not Chelsea grind out results rather than comprehensively beat the opposition. So, why is there a Jose love fest on this forum? Don't we all want style, even if it comes at the cost of losing?

So, let's not kid ourselves and be honest, at the end of the day we all like winning first. Everything else comes in a second.
 
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Carlos Queiroz:

"The success of Manchester United was based on a couple of principles. The first thing was it had a good foundation of consistency, continuity, trust and confidence. It has been difficult for Manchester United this season, there is absolutely no doubt about that. I knew changing coach would not be easy," Queiroz explained.

"To cross this bridge after Sir Alex being with the team for so many years, in one way, I think we were always going to have to expect some difficult moments. It is natural.

"Moyes deserved the chance. It was not a decision which fell out of the sky. It was a decision that came from a lot of mature thoughts and reflections. In the near future, he will put things right, I am very much confident about that.

"He was a manager Sir Alex and I always respected when we worked together. He did a great job at Everton. I think he just needs time to adapt. But I am very much confident the club has a lot of experience, it is strong, it has a persistent culture."

"I am sure David Moyes in a short period in time will do the right things at the club and the team will start to perform. Sir Alex is still there. I am sure David has been watching around and has a lot of great advisors in this moment," he concluded.
 
CQ showing his class again.

It's a pity he is not able to make the step up to manager. He was a great influence in his time here.
 
We won a lot under Sir Alex playing with two wide players and crossing the ball. Then why does everyone want to change that? Styles are often defined by the players rather than vice-versa. Also, let's not talk about exceptional circumstances where we have a once in a life-time Barcelona/Bayern teams. It's hard to build a special team on a consistent basis. Those kind of things happen once in a generation, most of the time you try play to your core strengths but at the same adapt to nullify the opposition.

Moyes isn’t Fergie, no one is. Moyes needs to implement his own style on the team, I feel he is trying to copy Fergie and may feel under pressure to do so. However, Fergie built his team on how he knew to win football matches, Moyes needs to find his own way, at the moment he’s more like a diluted version of Sir Alex.

While I agree that style can be defined by the players it’s more so the manager who dictates what style they play, Martinez, Mourinho, Pellegrini, Guardiola, Ancelotti all joined new clubs this season, all clubs have now changed their style of play, some more noticeable than others. Rodgers at Liverpool is another good example.

As for certain teams coming along once in a generation, Barcelona, Munich, Madrid, United, Milan, to name but a few have all had exceptional teams, yes it’s hard to stay at the top, but the really true great clubs do.

I am worried. In fact, I have become very skeptical about Moyes' managerial stint at this club. I believe that the current squad, despite it's obvious weakness, still should have competed for the title rather than languished at 7th. In any sport mentality counts as much if not more than talent and we have shown unprecedented weakness at times. There were times this season when we had opportunities to build momentum and we repeatedly failed. I don't think Moyes has done enough to inspire confidence in the players and some of his statements show that the pressure of managing United may be a little too much for him. His squad rotation and subs have also left much to be desired..
I agree, therefore can you not understand why people are worried about our style of play, or our one dimensional predictable football we seem to be playing more often than not. Against Arsenal we tried to mix it up a bit which was encouraging, it didn’t work but its gave us a glimmer of hope that he might start to change things for the better, the next month will tell us all we need to know.
Different threads are littered with posts from people saying that. I don't think you would have to look very hard to find them..
There’s a difference between wanting us to lose and understanding that we may lose while he is trying to implement his own style. If the fans saw progress I’m sure he would get a lot more backing than he currently is.
What style should he implement? A style that every 442/zonalmarking reading yuppie, who knows too much about football, wants him to? Where does he win with that? Who should he try to please? Poster X or Poster Y. Style will come with better players and winning. Easier to play with style when you are winning. Losing sows seeds of doubt and that is why we see a tentative United team in the premier league. In Europe we have played consistently well this season.
His own style, anything that shows us he knows what he’s doing. At the moment the team looks disjointed, we are predictable in our play which seems to be very one dimensional, his subs seem to confuse the players even more. It gives the opposition confidence that they can beat us.
You say style will come with better players? Are our players suddenly not good enough to play to a certain style? Is the team not full of international players, players who have won all there is to win domestically? We haven’t actually played that well in Europe, we had an easy group, however Moyes should be given credit for us finishing top of the group.
So, let's not kid ourselves and be honest, at the end of the day we all like winning first. Everything else comes in a second.
Of course winning comes first, who’s kidding themselves? Problem is we arent winning? Does he look like changing it round, no all we hear is ‘well keep doing what we’re doing and I’m certain our luck will change’
 
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Rightly or wrongly, Moyes is the manager of the club. He has been selected by people none other than Fergie and Sir Bobby who have the best interests of this club at heart. We'll have to support the manager through this phase. We were all willing to put up with any amount of mistakes made by Fergie because he has earned that privilege by winning a feckload of things and being the best in what he does. Moyes hasn't earned that credit yet, but we have to give him a fair shot. 2 Seasons at the very least is a fair shot in my book.

However, blind trust on Moyes is not on as well. Replacing a manager is quiet a drastic change and especially losing one like Fergie. It is bound to cause upheavals in the club and can explain the points drop and the terrible season we are having. However, there has to be a trade off. We could lose points because our system has drastically changed and we try and adopt to Moyes' methods, or we could continue to play the same style like we did with Fergie and slowly transition to a new style without compromising too much on points. But what's been happening is that we've continued to play like before and lose points as if we are on a mega transition. Moyes has to show that he's capable of bucking the trend and instead of 'trying to win the next match', he should just try to get this team play to the potential it can. As long as we can see tangible progress from the sorry state that we are in, we can't ask for much.

Moyes needs a stable climate to implement his ideas. I think he has that here, but it's up to him really. To soon implement his ideas, bright ideas hopefully. Selling off Rafael to buy Coleman isn't really a bright idea though. He can buy Coleman and keep Rafa to improve the competition, but it's tit move if he sells a player of the calibre of Rafael Da Silva, unless the player himself is hankering for a move.
 
Rightly or wrongly, Moyes is the manager of the club. He has been selected by people none other than Fergie and Sir Bobby who have the best interests of this club at heart. We'll have to support the manager through this phase. We were all willing to put up with any amount of mistakes made by Fergie because he has earned that privilege by winning a feckload of things and being the best in what he does. Moyes hasn't earned that credit yet, but we have to give him a fair shot. 2 Seasons at the very least is a fair shot in my book.
Nah, it's about potential for me personally. If I can see that he's putting in place ideas and methods that will bear fruit in the future then yes, but I can't have faith for no reason at all. I'll always support the team when we play and by consequence the manager as I want the club to do well, but rating him and believing in him depends on performance and potential. Right now, both are rubbish. Not seen much sign of it changing either, but hopefully it does.
 
I think with regards to the quick, exciting football many would like to see us play - I think the catch 22 situation we are in is that our big strengths are also a weakness when considering this type of game perhaps. I think with Rooney and Persie both fixtures in the side, there is only so quick the play can be behind them if they cannot match the dynamism provided. Persie has clever movement to lose a defender for a split second, but neither have real penetrative movement. Seeing as they are at the very sharp end of everything we do, ultimately, we would need to attack at their pace I think.

When Persie is no longer a fixture in the team, more than anything, I'd like whoever takes his place to be a fast and direct runner. Given the flexibility of our other attacking players, this player doesn't necessarily even need to come in at centre-forward. But injecting some speed in any of the four attacking places will expand the limits of the type of footy we will be able to produce. We could counter at speed, possibly have a wide man running in-behind from out to in, have centre forward trying to run behind the centre halves etc. One thing is certain, we have the players capable of finding such runners. The issue is that even one of our front two (Rooney) is one of them, and better suited to finding runners than being a runner himself. We don't have the runners.

I think the next full-back we introduce into the team will also be crucial in this respect. People use the throw away term of 'modern full-backs are like wingers', and ours actually try to get forward a lot. Our full-backs are very good at carrying the ball up the flank like a winger, but nowadays, a lot of full-backs are almost making centre-forward runs themselves. I was watching a Gundogan compilation last night and I noticed several penetrative runs from Pizczek and Schmelzer that he was finding.

In fact, Exhibit A:



Watching this really made me get this whole 'he doesn't fit our style of play' thing people say about Shinji. We may look on at Gundogan and lust for him in our midfield. However, if you watch the above video, it will be clear that it will be impossible for him to produce the same here without runners. The whole approach needs looking at.
 
Read a caughtoffshite article saying that the board were looking to sack Moyes in the summer and bring in Klopp.

It is of course 110% bullshit as you'd expect from them but it got me momentarily excited. Such is the faith I have in Moyes.
 
Hate to say this but the sooner Moyes goes the better for us.

In Moyes we have an extremely hopeful manager hoping to make it big at MU. Sorry but Moyes is just not MUQ.
 
Apparently In Italy were being linked with Antonio Conte and in Netherlands with Van Gaal.
 
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