Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Every time I think of it I laugh out loud... He'd probably get a contract extension on top of his 6 years if he pulls it off.
This place would be bizarre if it happened. From desperately wanting him gone at all costs to being forced to do the biggest U-turn known to man. It's not completely unfeasible he gets us defensively well drilled for the big games Chelsea 2012 style, and we fluke it through good defensive tactics and a little bit of luck and quality up front (which we have). As much as I'd want to bow down at his feet and apologise, and fair play to him if it happens but I think I'd still be slightly torn with the knowledge he's been so out of his depth all season and has shown no promising signs in terms of progressive and attractive football.
Jesus Darren come on!!
An overrated right back, no midfield, wingers who are piss easy to mark and a central defence that is piss poor (Even under Fergie)
Was gonna say he's shitting himself over his position but then I remembered :/
Yet another article with its title saying something different to what the rest of the article says..."begging"
fecking journalistsHuge wads of cash will pique the interest to top footballers, but unless United have a manager that's perceived to be a top manager, it's going to bevdifficultbtonattraxtvthe kind if talent we're looking for.
Moyes has to show the football world over the rest of the season that he's up to the job. Needless to say, he has yet to make his case that he is.
Moyes has to show the football world over the rest of the season that he's up to the job. Needless to say, he has yet to make his case that he is.
What a difference a year makes.... headline from The Mail this day last year.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/...nd-moyes-rescue-arsenal-wenger-091820393.html
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/...nd-moyes-rescue-arsenal-wenger-091820393.html
It's definitely a bold move to try and integrate pigeon English into the Caf at any rate...
An interesting article. It made me look up the table from last year. At this time last year (26 games gone) Arsenal were just 2 points ahead of we are today. Worth thinking about.
A year is a hell of a long time in football, thats for sure.
Funny that they weren't looking at Martinez, seeing as he's the second coming of Christ and all.
Funny that they weren't looking at Martinez, seeing as he's the second coming of Christ and all.
That would have gone down well. Forget that he had just been relegated, at least he plays football the right way and has won a cup, that makes him a safe pair of hands.
Not to mention that yer man at Liverpool was a David Brentian figure of fun.
I mean, he's still talking bollox but his perception as a football manager has changed completely in 12 months.
I mean, he's still talking bollox but his perception as a football manager has changed completely in 12 months.
Yep just chasing Spurs. So no not worth thinking about. Plus without or dominance the league is fare more open this year hence why we are chasing so many teams in this fourth battle.
I mean in terms of how things are going for them this year vs last year, rather than the chase for 4th place.
A lot of people expected Moyes would struggle in Europe but be ok in the Premier League, me included. It wasn't a far fetched thought either, baring in mind he has had 11 years in the Premier League, yet only 4 years in Europe, which I don't believe he ever made the group stage. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
I actually sometimes can't help but laugh to myself thinking about our season so far. What could go wrong, has gone wrong. Injuries, bad decisions, lack of confidence, poor team selections etc. Although, I actually think his teams on paper have not been that bad. It's mainly the instruction and tactics that seem to be the stumbling block thus far.
He's a good manager, maybe not great, but I believe he is skilled enough to get us out of this rut. Many don't think he is, but 11 years of keeping Everton in and around the fight for Europe is a fantastic job, whether people give him credit or not. He was just never given the budget to push them on that little bit further.
I made a post in the Newbies which had average league finishes over his time at Everton in comparison to the 10 years before him. His average league finish over the 11 years was 7th. The 10 years previous, Everton's average league finish was 14th. Before he arrived, Everton had not qualifed for Europe through a league finish since the 1986/1987 season. He managed it in his 3rd season there.
He's got the foundations, I just feel he is a little tentative with the whole experience so far. He'll come good, I have faith. 1 year in football is nothing, I'd happily give him 2-3-4 years. Manchester United won't disappear overnight, we'll always be the biggest club in England.
I actually sometimes can't help but laugh to myself thinking about our season so far. What could go wrong, has gone wrong. Injuries, bad decisions, lack of confidence, poor team selections etc. Although, I actually think his teams on paper have not been that bad. It's mainly the instruction and tactics that seem to be the stumbling block thus far.
He's a good manager, maybe not great, but I believe he is skilled enough to get us out of this rut. Many don't think he is, but 11 years of keeping Everton in and around the fight for Europe is a fantastic job, whether people give him credit or not. He was just never given the budget to push them on that little bit further.
I made a post in the Newbies which had average league finishes over his time at Everton in comparison to the 10 years before him. His average league finish over the 11 years was 7th. The 10 years previous, Everton's average league finish was 14th. Before he arrived, Everton had not qualifed for Europe through a league finish since the 1986/1987 season. He managed it in his 3rd season there.
He's got the foundations, I just feel he is a little tentative with the whole experience so far. He'll come good, I have faith. 1 year in football is nothing, I'd happily give him 2-3-4 years. Manchester United won't disappear overnight, we'll always be the biggest club in England.
We qualified for the next round in the CL - but that's about it. We had some good games, some decent games. But nothing to suggest Moyes is a CL genius. Let's see how we do once we face a strong team
You'd give him the years irrespective of his performance? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and write off this season, now let's say next season he finishes outside the top 4 again despite having spent over £100mill in the summer...would you still be inclined to give him the extra years to 'come good'?
No, I'm not deluded.
In the scenario above, he would have to leave. If there are signs that performances are better and we're going in the right direction, then I'll be happy.
Everton fans who seemed to have grown unhappy with Moyes are probably suffering from the old 'he's given them a finger and they want the entire hand' syndrome. I remember where Everton had been when he took over and he's done terrific work. I don't know why others, non Everton supporters, think otherwise.
But just like footballers, sometimes managers are unable to make the step up. We actually knew when we signed him we weren't getting the complete product because Moyes has had to take a big step up and for me also show progress quite quickly. So far, I don't think we've seen much progress. He's still a fish out of water.
But just like footballers, sometimes managers are unable to make the step up. We actually knew when we signed him we weren't getting the complete product because Moyes has had to take a big step up and for me also show progress quite quickly. So far, I don't think we've seen much progress. He's still a fish out of water.
Now there's an aphorism that doesn't translate well!
What does that mean? All I can think of is fisting.
It means he's given them something positive - good team, good stability - but after a while they don't find that enough, they want more.
So often the case for me.
The point i continue to make is simple - I want to see signs of progress. If Liverpool fail to make 4th place this year, do you think Rodgers will be under threat? No, because they're clearly making progress under him.
I'm even prepared to see us go backwards for 2 or 3 years as long as there are signs of progress along the way.
So if, for example, we were playing an interesting style of football but were undermined by the age of key players and an unbalanced squad, fine. If they players were giving their all, but things weren't going for them, again fine.
But I don't really see any progress so far. Nothing that makes me think that next season will be any better than this.
Does he? What gives you that idea?
Difficult thing to judge though, whether you are showing signs of progress while going backwards. Progress is such an elusive, subjective thing, so hard to quantify - and recognise when you are losing.
Not necessarily in football specifically but in life in general I often find progress is not steady and obvious in a way that lends itself to such measurement. I find I often appear to get worse at something, before things suddenly click and I improve markedly, almost overnight. Take golf, not a sport I am competent at but I had a few lessons at one point, I found my progress went like that. I reasoned it is because, for example, as you learn a correct way to hold the club, your shot first suffers as you get used to the feel of it. But once you are used to it your shot suddenly improves well beyond where you were before you learned the better grip.
Im just thinking out loud really, not refuting your point or agreeing with it, just suggesting sometimes, in my experience, improvements dont come in smooth straight lines but in sporadic lurches. Hopefully that is what is happening with us, as adjusting to a new manager combines with massive confidence issues to make us look much worse than we actually are.
This is how I feel too. He could add three or four top class players to the squad this summer and I'll still have my doubts that anything will change under him next season. He's completely failed to get the best out of Fellaini the few times he has featured this season and since Mata has come in, we've still seen countless crosses being thrown into the box and a complete lack of tactical awareness, apart from the Arsenal 0-0 draw.
That's true to a degree. I guess in football it tends to show itself as inconsistency. That can either be in the sense of playing well one week and poor the next, or it could mean being good in defence but toothless in attack, or playing well in big games but having problems polishing off poorer teams.
I struggle this season to really name any performances that show the way forward. There's the excellent games against Swansea and Leverkeusen, then a few "okay" performances such as against a poor Villa team away, or the Hull 3-2 game (which was more exciting than good). Even the Leverkeusen game though didn't really tell me anything about Moyes and how he seems the team developing. It rather felt like the old team having one last hurrah, rather than something he was doing showing through. Perhaps that's unfair.
I remember when we beat Arsenal 4-2 away in the otherwise dire 04-05 season. I dined out on that for months, because it showed us where we were going and foreshadowed the way the team would be operate. Our second goal in particular was a template for our success in the 06 - 08 period.
I'd love to see at least one performance like that before the end of the season, where if only for 90 minutes, everything that Moyes wants from a team happens. That way I'd be able to at least envision where we are going, even if the road is bumpy.
Definitely agree with that, I want something this season (if it was just one game that would actually be quite depressing) to indicate something positive is on the horizon. Not just to give the fans hope but to give prospective targets some comfort that they wouldnt be boarding a sinking ship.
It's long overdue but surely the time has come to play Mata and Januzaj either side of Rooney with RVP up top and let them naturally drift into space allowing the full backs to provide width and using two holding midfield players?
Focus the training on setting and maintaining a high tempo and the chances should be created and finished. Jones / Fellaini can do a job winning the ball back and Carrick / Fletcher in setting the tempo.
I'm not sure I can see the logic of playing Valenica or Young over Januzaj. It's not like the boy needs a rest is it!
Focus the training on setting and maintaining a high tempo and the chances should be created and finished. Jones / Fellaini can do a job winning the ball back and Carrick / Fletcher in setting the tempo.
I'm not sure I can see the logic of playing Valenica or Young over Januzaj. It's not like the boy needs a rest is it!
Yeah I definitely think we need to get Mata and Januzaj on the pitch together especially as Mata showed that he will do his share of the defending. Its fair enough that Januzaj got some rest as its important not to over use young players but given he hasn't had any international football this season or likely to do in the summer, he'll get a good break once the season ends.
How many games were the likes of Gotze and Draxler playing at 19? He has had enough mid-season rest, imo. Time to play our four best attackers in the last 12 games of the season in order to have any semblance of a chance to make it to the top 4. We need to win at least 10 out of the last 12 games and for that we need one of our best players of the season on the pitch.
We decided to rest Januzaj almost as soon as we purchased Mata, I'm all for giving youngsters a rest when needed, but the thing is... shouldnt you do so when they're looking burnt out? or struggling with consistency? we dropped him in a period where he was continually putting in MotM displays for us, I'm not privy to the medical checks the players have throughout the season or able to watch him in training but from the outside it was a baffling decision.
I don't see why you need to wait until a youngster appears like he's suffering. It's better to avoid that and I've no issues with Januzaj starting a couple of matches on the bench if rest is the idea. But I think it's four matches now, and that seems a little strange. Seems like Moyes is intent on having one 'real' winger in any lineup.
I think proper squad rotation has been one of the most disappointing features of Moyes' managerial stint so far. Januzaj isn't the first player this season to suddenly disappear for 4 or 5 games.
Well, I doubt Moyes has had much experience with squad rotation at Everton. Smaller squad, fewer matches. That's one of the issues with his appointment - We're asking him to do stuff he just hasn't done. He doesn't just have to replace Fergie, he needs to learn how to be a manager at a big club.
Yeah I think his approach to the league cup this season, especially in the early rounds, was telling of that. Not a single young player got a chance this year, I don't think whereas previously our teams in the early rounds would be full of one-time promotions
Even before that, like starting Ferdinand in consecutive games at the beginning of the season without much rest worried me a little. The best aspect of Sir Alex's management was his ability to put out a combination that as a sum of parts was more often than not good enough to get a win, even though it wasn't always the most exciting football. That is something that Moyes would need to emulate if needs to be successful at this club. That, and also inspiring confidence in the players.
Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to do either so far.
In Germany youngsters play as much as possible (once they are good enough for the first team) we have a winter break though, which probably helps a lot.
Thanks. That's what I thought. Januzaj has had his winter break, it's time for us to unleash him on the opposition.
Within reason, it's the best way to be. No player improves by sitting on the bench, at all.
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