Moyes So Far!

[Mockney]

Going off on a bit of a tangent - because I didn't want to infect the England/Hodgson thread with the omnipresent sewage of Moyes discussion - but I feel one of the most under discussed facets of this experiment is how much it impacts the British managerial landscape long term. And what loads of people have to lose from it.

The press and the FA have been relentless in their highlighting of foreign influence as the main blight on the national game. Since the PL began there's been this whole hierarchy of talent that's pooled at the top, with the impression that talented, young British managers (and obviously players) aren't getting a fair crack of the whip. That the big clubs will always rather hire a proven foreign star than take a chance. This grievance was a large part of Moyes's appointment and why so many inhouse embraced it. (after the fact.) Even clubs like Southampton and Swansea have looked abroad for glamour appointments.

Hodgson's been pretty poor in the England job tbf, though at least everyone accepts the pool is weak. His football's still been dire though, but despite the initial backlash from not appointing 'Arry (who himself was feted despite huge shortcomings, which were rarely if ever mentioned) the media has tolerated, nay positively encouraged his tenure because the press don't want to hound him as much as they did his foreign predecessors in case they look like hypocrites. This ties in heavily with why they've seemed to be less vociferous with Moyes than they were even very recently with AVB.

A lot rides on Moyes. If he fails, then it's a huge blow to the thinking that it's opportunity and not talent that's stifling the progress of British managers in the top jobs. If he does Evertonize us, it will solidify the idea that managers have a level, and the idea of promoting from within will become far more unfashionable than it already is. Rodgers is doing a good job of balancing the problem out this year, but he's still yet to prove anything, and was appointed when Liverpool were in mid-table dire straights, not established challengers.

If the Moyes experiment fails, the ramifications will be massive for up and coming British managers. No one in our position will even contemplate such an appointment again. Which is what worries me about this whole "principled" stance. It's in danger of doing more harm than good to the thing it's trying to champion.

Worst case scenario of course.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Going off on a bit of a tangent - because I didn't want to infect the England/Hodgson thread with the omnipresent sewage of Moyes discussion - but I feel one of the most under discussed facets of this experiment is how much it impacts the British managerial landscape long term. And what loads of people have to lose from it.

The press and the FA have been relentless in their highlighting of foreign influence as the main blight on the national game. Since the PL began there's been this whole hierarchy of talent that's pooled at the top, with the impression that talented, young British managers (and obviously players) aren't getting a fair crack of the whip. That the big clubs will always rather hire a proven foreign star than take a chance. This grievance was a large part of Moyes's appointment and why so inhouse many embraced it. (after the fact.) Even clubs like Southampton and Swansea have looked abroad for glamour appointments.

Hodgson's been pretty poor in the England job tbf, though at least everyone accepts the pool is weak. His football's still been dire though, but despite the initial backlash from not appointing 'Arry (who himself was feted despite huge shortcomings, which were rarely if ever mentioned) the media has tolerated, nay positively encouraged his tenure because the press don't want to hound him as much as they did his foreign predecessors in case they look like hypocrites. This ties in heavily with why they've seemed to be less vociferous with Moyes than they were even very recently with AVB.

A lot rides on Moyes. If he fails, then it's a huge blow to the thinking that it's opportunity and not talent that's stifling the progress of British managers in the top jobs. If he does Evertonize us, it will solidify the idea that managers have a level, and the idea of promoting from within will become far more unfashionable than it already is. Rodgers is doing a good job of balancing the disaster out this year, but he's still yet to prove anything seriously. He could still feasibly end up another Redknapp.

If the Moyes experiment fails, the ramifications will be massive for up and coming British managers. No one in our position will even contemplate such an appointment again. Which is what worries me about this whole "principled" stance. It's in danger of doing more harm than good to the thing it's trying to champion.

Worst case scenario of course.

Brendan Rodgers is making up for all that.

 

[SteveJ]

Going off on a bit of a tangent - because I didn't want to infect the England/Hodgson thread with the omnipresent sewage of Moyes discussion - but I feel one of the most under discussed facets of this experiment is how much it impacts the British managerial landscape long term. And what loads of people have to lose from it.

The press and the FA have been relentless in their highlighting of foreign influence as the main blight on the national game. Since the PL began there's been this whole hierarchy of talent that's pooled at the top, with the impression that talented, young British managers (and obviously players) aren't getting a fair crack of the whip. That the big clubs will always rather hire a proven foreign star than take a chance. This grievance was a large part of Moyes's appointment and why so inhouse many embraced it. (after the fact.) Even clubs like Southampton and Swansea have looked abroad for glamour appointments.

Hodgson's been pretty poor in the England job tbf, though at least everyone accepts the pool is weak. His football's still been dire though, but despite the initial backlash from not appointing 'Arry (who himself was feted despite huge shortcomings, which were rarely if ever mentioned) the media has tolerated, nay positively encouraged his tenure because the press don't want to hound him as much as they did his foreign predecessors in case they look like hypocrites. This ties in heavily with why they've seemed to be less vociferous with Moyes than they were even very recently with AVB.

A lot rides on Moyes. If he fails, then it's a huge blow to the thinking that it's opportunity and not talent that's stifling the progress of British managers in the top jobs. If he does Evertonize us, it will solidify the idea that managers have a level, and the idea of promoting from within will become far more unfashionable than it already is. Rodgers is doing a good job of balancing the disaster out this year, but he's still yet to prove anything seriously. He could still feasibly end up another Redknapp.

If the Moyes experiment fails, the ramifications will be massive for up and coming British managers. No one in our position will even contemplate such an appointment again. Which is what worries me about this whole "principled" stance. It's in danger of doing more harm than good to the thing it's trying to champion.

Worst case scenario of course.

Good post, chief.

 

[.Rossi]

Brendan Rodgers is making up for all that.

He's Irish

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He's Irish

Northern Ireland?

 

[Mockney]

Brendan Rodgers is making up for all that.

Addressed, but true. Though he's still yet to prove anything. He also wasn't appointed in the same circumstances. The spectre of Moyes will hang over top appointments far more than the idea of giving a young manager a promising mid-table sleeping giant.

There's also differences in prominence. Rodgers, much like AVB, hadn't really "done their time" in the way Moyes, or latterly O'Neil was perceived to have. They were seen as risky potential wunderkinds. The Moyes thing speaks far more to the huge majority of managers biding their time in unglamourous jobs. The idea that good British managers are hamstrung by their position rather than their talent. That Moyes failed to win anything with Everton because it was Everton's fault, not Moyes's. It's them, who are the vast majority, who'll suffer.

 

[Godfather]

I'm being glib, to be fair. I do hate stuff like that article you posted but undestand why you shared it and will freely admit I'm an intolerant cnut.

Not sure how much those photos teach us, other than Fletcher and Carrick don't get up the pitch and link with our forwards very well, while Rooney has a habit of playing too high up the pitch when he's supposed to be a 10.

Which we all knew anyway.

Then why the heck is Moyes not adressing that problem? Is he so high up Rooneys arse that under no circumstances he wants to annoy him?

 

[.Rossi]

Northern Ireland?

Yeah.....He played Hurling and Gaelic football until someone introduced him to the awful world of "soccer" at 14 years of age

Them across the water and their nasty ethos..Unbelievable.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I'm being glib, to be fair. I do hate stuff like that article you posted but undestand why you shared it and will freely admit I'm an intolerant cnut.

Not sure how much those photos teach us, other than Fletcher and Carrick don't get up the pitch and link with our forwards very well, while Rooney has a habit of playing too high up the pitch when he's supposed to be a 10.

Which we all knew anyway.

It doesn't really matter anyway we don't need photos to see that Moyes's tactics are shite.

 

[Stack]

Apologies if this link was already posted http://livelifeunited.com/illustrat...campaign=illustration-moyes-tactics-stone-age

It explains rather well our main pb with off the ball movement and not giving players passing options therefore forcing a cross/a back pass.

That space is perfect for Mata, Kagawa, Rooney,Adnan or even Cleverley to work in.

 

[Loon]

Addressed, but true. Though he's still yet to prove anything. He also wasn't appointed in the same circumstances. The spectre of Moyes will hang over top appointments far more than the idea of giving a young manager a promising mid-table sleeping giant.

There's also differences in prominence. Rodgers, much like AVB, hadn't really "done their time" in the way Moyes, or latterly O'Neil was perceived to have. They were seen as risky potential wunderkinds. The Moyes thing speaks far more to the huge majority of managers biding their time in unglamourous jobs. The idea that good British managers are hamstrung by their position rather than their talent. That Moyes failed to win anything with Everton because it was Everton's fault, not Moyes's. It's them, who are the vast majority, who'll suffer.

Good points all.

It might be naive, but I think a good coach will always rise to the top, regardless of nationality/club. If a coach is seen to be doing well down the leagues, he will always put himself in the frame for the top jobs (even sleeping giants) and I believe that applies equally to British managers. The issue comes when their bluff is called and they can't produce the goods -- which is essentially the same for all managers. People like Gerry Francis moaned for years about big clubs and their ready money, yet when he was placed in such a position, he couldn't do the job and was binned.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Going off on a bit of a tangent - because I didn't want to infect the England/Hodgson thread with the omnipresent sewage of Moyes discussion - but I feel one of the most under discussed facets of this experiment is how much it impacts the British managerial landscape long term. And what loads of people have to lose from it.

The press and the FA have been relentless in their highlighting of foreign influence as the main blight on the national game. Since the PL began there's been this whole hierarchy of talent that's pooled at the top, with the impression that talented, young British managers (and obviously players) aren't getting a fair crack of the whip. That the big clubs will always rather hire a proven foreign star than take a chance. This grievance was a large part of Moyes's appointment and why so many inhouse embraced it. (after the fact.) Even clubs like Southampton and Swansea have looked abroad for glamour appointments.

Hodgson's been pretty poor in the England job tbf, though at least everyone accepts the pool is weak. His football's still been dire though, but despite the initial backlash from not appointing 'Arry (who himself was feted despite huge shortcomings, which were rarely if ever mentioned) the media has tolerated, nay positively encouraged his tenure because the press don't want to hound him as much as they did his foreign predecessors in case they look like hypocrites. This ties in heavily with why they've seemed to be less vociferous with Moyes than they were even very recently with AVB.

A lot rides on Moyes. If he fails, then it's a huge blow to the thinking that it's opportunity and not talent that's stifling the progress of British managers in the top jobs. If he does Evertonize us, it will solidify the idea that managers have a level, and the idea of promoting from within will become far more unfashionable than it already is. Rodgers is doing a good job of balancing the problem out this year, but he's still yet to prove anything, and was appointed when Liverpool were in mid-table dire straights, not established challengers.

If the Moyes experiment fails, the ramifications will be massive for up and coming British managers. No one in our position will even contemplate such an appointment again. Which is what worries me about this whole "principled" stance. It's in danger of doing more harm than good to the thing it's trying to champion.

Worst case scenario of course.

Good post Mockney.

Although one silver lining could be that more young coaches seek employment abroad, earn their spurs in a foreign league as a route to advancement at home. It should be encouraged in any event but i tink the process would be hastened were the perception of British managers to decline further.

Do the LMA provide language courses as a matter of routine? Perhaps they could hold those at St George's Park as an addition to the on-pitch variety.

 

[Mockney]

Yeah, I suppose the pro-argument is that meritocratically nothing will change, you'll just have to actually prove yourself at lower clubs and the idea that the level hampers the manager rather than the manager is of the level will be seen as bullshit.

In that scenario, the Rodgers of this world (presuming he's not a flavour of the month) will still rise to the top regardless.

 

[SteveJ]

We're so depressingly insular in this country. Even Rodgers was recently claiming that it's his "life's journey" to promote British talent...and yesterday he was celebrating Liverpool's "British core"...yet he's supposed to be one of those progressive, cutting-edge coaches. What a joke.

In tomorrow's episode of Being: Brendan press conference: Rodgers talks about yoghurt, and the collected works of Jacques Lacan.

 

[Mockney]

We're farcically over concerned with the idea of home grown progress being blocked or unfairly limited and not nearly concerned enough with the idea of improving the quality of home grown products. It's a weird self inflicted excuse laden catch 22

 

[.Rossi]

We're so depressingly insular in this country. Even Rodgers was recently claiming that it's his "life's journey" to promote British talent...and yesterday he was celebrating Liverpool's "British core"...yet he's supposed to be one of those progressive, cutting-edge coaches. What a joke.

In tomorrow's episode of Being: Brendan press conference: Rodgers talks about yoghurt, and the collected works of Jacques Lacan.

"I believe building a squad is like making the perfect yoghurt....It takes time. You need everything to be smooth and creamy in the centre. Or, if you're Manchester United, soft in the centre"

He's the Marco Pierre White of football....Minus the charm, charisma and elegance

 

[Sir Matt]

Perhaps it would encourage the "powers that be" within English football, mainly the dimwitted FA, to work on managerial development in a more serious manner.

 

[Mockney]

As long as that gif of Paul Ince's notepad exists, the "they took our jobs" attitude doesn't cut it.

 

[SteveJ]

 

[Chesterlestreet]

All of them, actually. Every single one. Improvement on the South Park gag: "They took ALL our jooobs!"

 

[Loon]

Perhaps it would encourage the "powers that be" within English football, mainly the dimwitted FA, to work on managerial development in a more serious manner.

I think it's up to the managers too. They have to study and work hard to get to the top. Go outside their comfort zone.

 

[SteveJ]

All of them, actually. Every single one. Improvement on the South Park gag: "They took ALL our jooobs!"

Amazing, considering that they're all taking our benefits at the same time. They must be very busy.

 

[Loon]

Yeah, I suppose the pro-argument is that meritocratically nothing will change, you'll just have to actually prove yourself at lower clubs and the idea that the level hampers the manager rather than the manager is of the level will be seen as bullshit.

In that scenario, the Rodgers of this world (presuming he's not a flavour of the month) will still rise to the top regardless.

Yes, I think so. Rodgers will either prove to be the real deal or this year's Mike Walker.

 

[Barney]

Barry will likely sign on as a free transfer.

Nope. Wages are apparently going to be a huge stumbling point.

 

[Sir Matt]

I think it's up to the managers too. They have to study and work hard to get to the top. Go outside their comfort zone.

This is true. There are often former players who get their coaching qualifications and assume they can start managing. As an example, Paul Ince became player manager at Macclesfield where he worked for a year then jumped to MK Dons the next summer. A year later he's managing a team in the Premiership. Why would you give him that job? It makes no sense. Two years experience without any real long-term training?

Pep is obviously an exception, but at least he had a year of reserves football before becoming a full-time manager. There's more room for error in reserves to develop and experiment than there is as a first team manager. There's no demand for results in the reserves. Still, it would generally be better for an aspiring manager to work in different roles before taking over a head job at any level.

 

[Loon]

This is true. There are often former players who get their coaching qualifications and assume they can start managing. As an example, Paul Ince became player manager at Macclesfield where he worked for a year then jumped to MK Dons the next summer. A year later he's managing a team in the Premiership. Why would you give him that job? It makes no sense. Two years experience without any real long-term training?

Pep is obviously an exception, but at least he had a year of reserves football before becoming a full-time manager. There's more room for error in reserves to develop and experiment than there is as a first team manager. There's no demand for results in the reserves. Still, it would generally be better for an aspiring manager to work in different roles before taking over a head job at any level.

I think this is related to the point @Mockney was making. Pep was lightning in a bottle, he stepped up and proved he could do it. One of those once in a generation types of manager. That said, I'm sure he did his fair share of studying too. Look at the background and education Mourinho had before becoming a manager. Incredible!

This is what puzzles me most about Moyes. I thought he was going to be the sort of tactician Mourinho is, United wouldn't be as swashbuckling as we'd hoped, but they'd be able to adapt and overcome teams in the manner Mourinho sussed City.

So far, I just don't see that in Moyes.

 

[Sky1981]

This is true. There are often former players who get their coaching qualifications and assume they can start managing. As an example, Paul Ince became player manager at Macclesfield where he worked for a year then jumped to MK Dons the next summer. A year later he's managing a team in the Premiership. Why would you give him that job? It makes no sense. Two years experience without any real long-term training?

Pep is obviously an exception, but at least he had a year of reserves football before becoming a full-time manager. There's more room for error in reserves to develop and experiment than there is as a first team manager. There's no demand for results in the reserves. Still, it would generally be better for an aspiring manager to work in different roles before taking over a head job at any level.

The club recruitment processes is to blame as well imo

I don't know how recruitment and qualification for the job works in most teams, but I believe most of the straight to first team management ex footballer (Keane, Ole, Bruce, etc) simply appointed because of they're big names, and not because they are worthy and have shown enough to merit the job.

Other than Ole (who's actually managing reserves, molde, and now cardiff), most of the big names managers that jumped straight to first team football management are there based on past glory as players, compared to the top level coaches in Italy which has done their dues and proven their worth at lower leagues.

I haven't done much research, but Lippi, Heynkess, Hiddink, Mourinho, and most other world class managers have done their dues in their younger years, and they're more solid in the long run (i.e. they perform in a stable form, not a one season wonder ala Keane. Sure they can have their bad year, but overall they're more dependable than their pop corn counterpart.

 

[Barney]

Kind of begs the question how he gets any caps at all then. Aren't Defour and Dembele both very technical footballers? Like the whole Belgian squad really.

Dembele is average, he's one of the most overrated footballers on the caf.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

Depending upon the club there can also be a opportunistic streak to these appointments, how many chairmen used to consider the appointment of a former player of Sir Alex's to be a short cut to signing/loaning United youngsters? Alternatively you've got those cases where star names are used as a magnet in attracting mates from previous clubs or talent in their country of origin.

 

[forevrared]

http://redrants.com/moyes-removal-on-united-agenda

Worth a read. I'm still clinging to the fence trying not to fall completely into the 'Sack Moyes' camp, but it's getting harder and harder to hang on.

 

[Woodzy]

I wonder what he's getting Valencia for Valentine's Day.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

We're farcically over concerned with the idea of home grown progress being blocked or unfairly limited and not nearly concerned enough with the idea of improving the quality of home grown products. It's a weird self inflicted excuse laden catch 22

We often hear how our players are technically inferior to their continental counterparts but we less often hear about our managers being philosophically and tactically inferior to their continental counterparts. Surely one feeds the other in a vicious circle.

The failing of Moyes at United will probably be better for British football in the long run. The 'British is best' mentality is still pervasive and it seems that we only become humble in the face of repeated failure. The failure of a man in Moyes, who many experts and pundits had down as the best British manager about, might finally bring about some philosophical reflection from those who lead the teams tactically.

I am a proud Englishman but if you take off your English hat, look around at British football managers, how many do you see who have a progressive or even current philosophy, one that could even begin to compliment better technical players?

There is one and he is Liverpool manager.

For me, it isn't about opportunities or some foreign fancy, it is about the vast vast majority of British manager having a ceiling below the elite because the are entrenched in an antiquated footballing philosophy.

Sadly Moyes's tenure at United so far has been the exemplification of this quandary.

 

[Getsme]

We often hear how our players are technically inferior to their continental counterparts but we less often hear about our managers being philosophically and tactically inferior to their continental counterparts. Surely one feeds the other in a vicious circle.

The failing of Moyes at United will probably be better for British football in the long run. The 'British is best' mentality is still pervasive and it seems that we only become humble in the face of repeated failure. The failure of a man in Moyes, who many experts and pundits had down as the best British manager about, might finally bring about some philosophical reflection from those who lead the teams tactically.

I am a proud Englishman but if you take off your English hat, look around at British football managers, how many do you see who have a progressive or even current philosophy, one that could even begin to compliment better technical players?

There is one and he is Liverpool manager.

For me, it isn't about opportunities or some foreign fancy, it is about the vast vast majority of British manager having a ceiling below the elite because the are entrenched in an antiquated footballing philosophy.

Sadly Moyes's tenure at United so far has been the exemplification of this quandary.

Good post.

 

[Getsme]

I do feel sorry for him, it seems like everyone is taking the piss.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

We often hear how our players are technically inferior to their continental counterparts but we less often hear about our managers being philosophically and tactically inferior to their continental counterparts. Surely one feeds the other in a vicious circle.

The failing of Moyes at United will probably be better for British football in the long run. The 'British is best' mentality is still pervasive and it seems that we only become humble in the face of repeated failure. The failure of a man in Moyes, who many experts and pundits had down as the best British manager about, might finally bring about some philosophical reflection from those who lead the teams tactically.

I am a proud Englishman but if you take off your English hat, look around at British football managers, how many do you see who have a progressive or even current philosophy, one that could even begin to compliment better technical players?

There is one and he is Liverpool manager.

For me, it isn't about opportunities or some foreign fancy, it is about the vast vast majority of British manager having a ceiling below the elite because the are entrenched in an antiquated footballing philosophy.

Sadly Moyes's tenure at United so far has been the exemplification of this quandary.

Bit harsh on big Sam. He beat Spurs playing a false 9, you know!

 

[Oggmonster]

You miss some key points - specifically the fact that fellaini was available for £4m less all summer. There is no way to spin it - it was a clusterfeck of epic proportions.

His development of Barkley? The guy he put out on loan all of last season and he's now starting every game for Everton? Speak to any efc fan and theyll tell you his handling of him was poor.

I never wanted him and im not surprised by anything this season. You cant gamble on the replacement of the greatest of all time. Moyes was a spectacular gamble. His handling of januzaj has been excellent, however, everything else has been a-typical David Moyes....defence before attack. All men behind the ball. That is not Man Utd and never will be. He was almost full of.glee last night at a point....to be honest, i found our whole set up depressing. He doesn't think like a winner and will not gamble to potentially win a game. Great managers take risks...ours just isn't wired that way.

He gave him a chance in the first team and gave him his debut. Young players often need time to settle, you can't just play every week from the age of 16 til you're 36 in top flight football, it doesn't work like that, Moyes took a judgement on the best way to handle him. I'm sure it caused mixed opinions amongst Everton fans but a lot of managers would of done the same. Barkley plays a lot now but who's to say that Moyes wouldn't of done the same? In fairness you say Fellaini was available for 4million less, which is pretty much all speculation and paper talk. More speculation linked us with Barkley so Moyes obviously rated him highly enough if he wanted to sign him. It's about managing players, which he has done very well with Januzaj so I'd have confidence he would of done a good job with Barkley in the end. Martinez has benefited from the fact somewhat that Moyes already brought him through and gave him the loan opportunities.

I agree he's not been perfect, in this thread it's not so bad as it's an opinion topic about David Moyes, but in other threads it just seems like any excuse to criticize him. As my post said the Anderson stuff was laughable, people are "gutted" he's gone but 20 pages before were saying he should of been sold.

The Fellaini stuff with extra value may be out of his control, the board deal with the money Moyes would of just identified the targets.

I also agree about the risk taking, maybe using Arsenal away isn't the best example but he is quite one dimensional, he needs to change that way of thinking over time. I think the only "risk" he takes is occasionally putting Valencia at right back, the tactics need to be mixed up a bit at times which he seems afraid of doing, again hopefully it comes in time.

 

[#07]

We often hear how our players are technically inferior to their continental counterparts but we less often hear about our managers being philosophically and tactically inferior to their continental counterparts. Surely one feeds the other in a vicious circle.

The failing of Moyes at United will probably be better for British football in the long run. The 'British is best' mentality is still pervasive and it seems that we only become humble in the face of repeated failure. The failure of a man in Moyes, who many experts and pundits had down as the best British manager about, might finally bring about some philosophical reflection from those who lead the teams tactically.

I am a proud Englishman but if you take off your English hat, look around at British football managers, how many do you see who have a progressive or even current philosophy, one that could even begin to compliment better technical players?

There is one and he is Liverpool manager.

For me, it isn't about opportunities or some foreign fancy, it is about the vast vast majority of British manager having a ceiling below the elite because the are entrenched in an antiquated footballing philosophy.

Sadly Moyes's tenure at United so far has been the exemplification of this quandary.

Agreed. Too often we reduce things to ethnicity when it comes to football. Our papers, pundits and experts will claim we don't give homegrown players and managers enough of a chance. But its not because they are not foreign that we don't give them a chance, its because they aren't good enough.

The sad thing is there's no real reason why this should be. It is like this because we train our kids badly compared to other major footballing nations and cos we lock our managers into our outdated way of thinking. So few of our managers go abroad and try to broaden their knowledge of the game.

As Sultan mentioned the other day Moyes needs seek the views of people who aren't locked into our system, like Sir Alex did with Quieroz and Meulensteen. For his, ours and the good of English football as a whole Moyes needs to break out of his comfort zone and learn new things. If he doesn't his time at United will end in tears (and well before his contract is up).

 

[Dracula]

Sorry, but...

Who the Feck cares about how well English managers do??

They have nobody to blame but themselves. Whilst young spanish/italian managers were changing sytstems, daring to change status quo and actually understanding modern football, English managers like Pulis/Hodgson et al have shown they still play the same football from the early 90's.

As much as i hate rodgers, and i do think he will get found out eventually, what he has shown is balls to completely reshape a team philosophy to a more 'continental' style. He and AVB took stewardship under Mourinho and at least one of them managed to get it to work.

There is not some mass conspiracy for PL teams to only get foreign managers because its somehow sexier than getting british managers, its just most british managers are shit! The system is not in place for them to be forced into a change. There will always be a stoke for a manager like Pulis to manage.

EDIT: for the record im not lumping Moyes in that bracket...although im bloody close. I want to see how he does given time with the opportunity to change his everton system which im hoping was forced on him rather than a choice

 

[.Rossi]

Sorry, but...

Who the Feck cares about how well English managers do??

They have nobody to blame but themselves. Whilst young spanish/italian managers were changing sytstems, daring to change status quo and actually understanding modern football, English managers like Pulis/Hodgson et al have shown they still play the same football from the early 90's.

As much as i hate rodgers, and i do think he will get found out eventually, what he has shown is balls to completely reshape a team philosophy to a more 'continental' style. He and AVB took stewardship under Mourinho and at least one of them managed to get it to work.

There is not some mass conspiracy for PL teams to only get foreign managers because its somehow sexier than getting british managers, its just most british managers are shit! The system is not in place for them to be forced into a change. There will always be a stoke for a manager like Pulis to manage.

EDIT: for the record im not lumping Moyes in that bracket...although im bloody close. I want to see how he does given time with the opportunity to change his everton system which im hoping was forced on him rather than a choice

 

[Kag]

We often hear how our players are technically inferior to their continental counterparts but we less often hear about our managers being philosophically and tactically inferior to their continental counterparts. Surely one feeds the other in a vicious circle.

The failing of Moyes at United will probably be better for British football in the long run. The 'British is best' mentality is still pervasive and it seems that we only become humble in the face of repeated failure. The failure of a man in Moyes, who many experts and pundits had down as the best British manager about, might finally bring about some philosophical reflection from those who lead the teams tactically.

I am a proud Englishman but if you take off your English hat, look around at British football managers, how many do you see who have a progressive or even current philosophy, one that could even begin to compliment better technical players?

There is one and he is Liverpool manager.

For me, it isn't about opportunities or some foreign fancy, it is about the vast vast majority of British manager having a ceiling below the elite because the are entrenched in an antiquated footballing philosophy.

Sadly Moyes's tenure at United so far has been the exemplification of this quandary.

Great post.