Yeah but.....we played well?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Yeah but.....we played well?
Sorry man, never meant to pull back into the nightmare
I was looking for a detailed article of our main issues and I think that link covers things pretty well.
I'm confused
According to some on here we had to play it wide all the time as there was no space to run into. Seems they were wrong all along then.
There is always space, just need to have the players exploiting it by runs and receiving passes.
What do we know eh ?Bit fecking silly picking the bones out of 90 minutes of football by posting a handful of still images from assorted moments in the game and scrawling all over them with MS Paint.
I used to think heat maps and key pass stats were the end of civilisation as we know it but this shit plumbs new depths.
I used to think heat maps and key pass stats were the end of civilisation as we know it but this shit plumbs new depths.
Yeah feck it. Lets just assume we played well and ignore everything else.
After all, we got to the byline LOADS.
After all, we got to the byline LOADS.
So unbalanced it's untrue. At what level of football do men stand in the box like that well before a cross comes in?
Just been thinking, when the AGM happens at the end of the season, and a board member quizzes him over this season and our performances, I'd love to hear his response.
"Urgh, you need football intelligence to understand my tactics!!"
"Urgh, you need football intelligence to understand my tactics!!"
For me the 81 crosses is just a freak stat, I don't give it that much importance as it won't occur very often. The stills just illustrates all the different areas of the game we've been discussing on the caf for months. This isn't strictly Moyes' fault as the team was already displaying the lack of movement since last year at least. I'm not against using any tools to back up an idea already put in place and commented on even if they can be a bit too much if used in every discussion. This is why I didn't wanna copy/paste the entire article here.
Fairly sure the byline stuff was a different game.
And yeah, we should have beaten Fulham but maintaining 75% of the posession while constantly standing at least 30 yards apart must mean we're better at passing than I thought. So there is that.
We clearly don't have a football brain since we don't understand Moyes' tactics:Sorry man, never meant to pull back into the nightmare
I was looking for a detailed article of our main issues and I think that link covers things pretty well.
There is always space, just need to have the players exploiting it by runs and receiving passes.
To be fair you advocated that day that we crossed only because Fulham put all the players in their box and we didn't had space in the middle, which from those photos seems to be that it wasn't the case.
And even if that really happened, crossing on those cases again it doesn't make sense. If they have 10 players there and we have 3 or 4 then very likely they'll get all the balls. Rooney is less than 5'10'' while RVP hasn't ever scored more than 2 headers in a season. They had a 6'7'' defender. How the hell anybody think that in those cases crossing is the only/the right tactic is beyond me.
I think Moyes was just annoyed by the journos and understandably so after such a frustrating result. A way to divert attention IMHO. That doesn't bother me as I honestly hate journos in general (not you Mockers).
It's not silly. No one is going to post multiple images of the same thing. A couple of images are enough to portray the problems we have had this season. Every game is basically the same. Lack of CM pushing him, Rooney and Van Persie waiting for crosses, Valencia not supporting strikers, gap between centre-backs and midfield big, gap between midfield and attack massive, no forward option for midfielders, etc.
I'm being glib, to be fair. I do hate stuff like that article you posted but undestand why you shared it and will freely admit I'm an intolerant cnut.
Not sure how much those photos teach us, other than Fletcher and Carrick don't get up the pitch and link with our forwards very well, while Rooney has a habit of playing too high up the pitch when he's supposed to be a 10.
Which we all knew anyway.
For all of you who likes good football watch Bayern against Werder Bremen and notice the difference in formation and tactic compared to Moyes United. Pep set up his team well balanced and using every players strength in best possible way. It's a joy to watch.
There is no reason to continue criticize our manager any more, everybody knows what the owners needs to do before it gets better. It's obvious and they more we wait the worse it will be.
I'm looking forward to the day when we have a modern manager so we can watch some attractive football again.
There is no reason to continue criticize our manager any more, everybody knows what the owners needs to do before it gets better. It's obvious and they more we wait the worse it will be.
I'm looking forward to the day when we have a modern manager so we can watch some attractive football again.
I didn't mean to post them as a way of revealing something completely new, most of what we do is recycling discussions after discussions. The pics are just an illustration of what we already knew. Vines would have been better but I'm not gonna look for them
Those images do look pretty indicative of how both us and Bayern have played this season. Obviously it won't tell you anything, but I think it does identify one of the major flaws in our attacking play in this case.
It's very obvious we're tactically lagging and getting worse under Moyes (who seems bafflingly happy about it) so if you're expecting everyone to lie back and think of Manchester, don't complain and be philosophical about the mystical effects of time whilst every other top team progresses by being proactive, cool. Bully for you.
Personally I'm really worried about the whole thing and can only enjoy it by taking a sardonic approach to the sheer ridiculousness of it all. I've basically regressed into a kind of reactionary pedantry. It's working for me. At least I'm holding off the hard drugs.
Well, mostly.
You don't need to look for vines, those images demonstrated the point just fine.I didn't mean to post them as a way of revealing something completely new, most of what we do is recycling discussions after discussions. The pics are just an illustration of what we already knew. Vines would have been better but I'm not gonna look for them
The case against Fellaini isn't that he once played for Everton. Most of us here would be pleased enough to see Baines succeed Evra, except perhaps for the fact that Baines is already 29.
The case against Fellaini is, primarily, that he doesn't have the right mix of talents and athleticism to be either a deep lying or holding midfielder, which is what he has stated publicly he believes are his best positions. We can all come to our own conclusions as to whether he's good enough for United based on what we saw from him at Everton, but it seems a pretty straightforward case that what he does best is not what we need and that what we does not do well is what we need. In other words, he's a good footballer but he's not what United needed then or now.
Unless, of course, Fellaini can radically adapt his game to what United do need. If he does, fantastic. But no one sees that adaption in the cards.
It's not just a matter of Fellaini "stepping up"; it's a matter of Fellaini changing his game to what United need of a proper central midfielder.
Exactly. Thanks for articulating clearly what I was struggling to do.
We play some of the worst, rigid and dull football I see whenever I watch top European football.
There is such a lack of cohesion between our front players, our defensive organisation has regressed this season and our midfield is as non-existent as it's been in recent memory.
It's got worse under Moyes who seems to have done nothing to address the issues we all knew about in Fergie's last couple of seasons.
There is such a lack of cohesion between our front players, our defensive organisation has regressed this season and our midfield is as non-existent as it's been in recent memory.
It's got worse under Moyes who seems to have done nothing to address the issues we all knew about in Fergie's last couple of seasons.
Now we just need Moyes to do the same.
Reactionary pedantry is my middle name(s)
I'm worried too fwiw. Although I'm taking a bit of a guilty pleasure in people getting so upset about supporting a team that plays crap football and - shock, horror - might not win any trophies. In a really fecked up way, the more dismal the performance the bigger my internal smirk. It's football, Jim, but not as we know it.
Be nice for this tragicomic few months to end at some point, of course, but I'm sure it will. Eventually. Maybe even when Moyes is still in charge?
Your heart is black!!!!.....Black like the ace of spaces!!!!
Pogue doesn't like stats or heat maps that paint Moyes in a bad light, the league table, the unhappy legendary players in the squad, the unhappy squad players in the squad, the unhappy ex employees, still pictures showing how our players setup in attacking phases, testimony from Everton fans on the nature of Moyes, Moyes previous record as a manager or the plethora of disturbing parallels between Moyes's Everton and Moyes's Manchester United.
Pogue quite likes David Moyes, evidently.
Pogue quite likes David Moyes, evidently.
This is actually useful stuff, though like any still collection of still photos it doesn't tell the whole story.
http://livelifeunited.com/illustrat...campaign=illustration-moyes-tactics-stone-age
What's still difficult to discern is whether Moyes instructs our central midfielders to provide so llittle support for a teammate who has the ball in a central position or whether they refuse to heed his instructions to do so.
There's no question that the players are instructed to get the ball out wide and launch crosses into the box as the main tactical objective. New specs will be ordered for anyone who disputes that. What's harder to figure out is what is going through the minds of our central mids when they do have the ball in a central position at the top of the last third. Are they thinking "get the ball out wide no matter what" or are they thinking "shit, I've got no good options for a short pass and move play up the middle I have no choice but to look for a pass wide"?
I can't believe it's the former but maybe it is. But when you break down each of our central mids only one seems comfortable with short pass and move football -- Kagawa. But Kagawa's problem is that eaily bullied by prem defenders. Carrick doesn't like to go forward, despite his goal against Fulham. (Didn't he has a nifty goal against Fulham 2-3 seasons ago?). Fletcher just doesn't have the chops for this level of football any longer. Cleverley was supposed to the shining light but he has lacked the kinds of ambition and arrogance to play a 1-2 to try to get behind the back line. Ando and Fellaini are like Abbott and Costello in the last third, at least with the ball at their feet. So maybe our Neanderthal play all stems from the fact that our central defenders have been, or are, poor; and if that's true perhaps, just perhaps, the case for Moyes being of victim of circumstances has merit.
http://livelifeunited.com/illustrat...campaign=illustration-moyes-tactics-stone-age
What's still difficult to discern is whether Moyes instructs our central midfielders to provide so llittle support for a teammate who has the ball in a central position or whether they refuse to heed his instructions to do so.
There's no question that the players are instructed to get the ball out wide and launch crosses into the box as the main tactical objective. New specs will be ordered for anyone who disputes that. What's harder to figure out is what is going through the minds of our central mids when they do have the ball in a central position at the top of the last third. Are they thinking "get the ball out wide no matter what" or are they thinking "shit, I've got no good options for a short pass and move play up the middle I have no choice but to look for a pass wide"?
I can't believe it's the former but maybe it is. But when you break down each of our central mids only one seems comfortable with short pass and move football -- Kagawa. But Kagawa's problem is that eaily bullied by prem defenders. Carrick doesn't like to go forward, despite his goal against Fulham. (Didn't he has a nifty goal against Fulham 2-3 seasons ago?). Fletcher just doesn't have the chops for this level of football any longer. Cleverley was supposed to the shining light but he has lacked the kinds of ambition and arrogance to play a 1-2 to try to get behind the back line. Ando and Fellaini are like Abbott and Costello in the last third, at least with the ball at their feet. So maybe our Neanderthal play all stems from the fact that our central defenders have been, or are, poor; and if that's true perhaps, just perhaps, the case for Moyes being of victim of circumstances has merit.
Yeah, I mean, there's a large part of me that's quite enjoying being crap. I've experienced it with England a fair bit, and it's basically just what every other football fan has to deal with on a weekly basis. We're normal now and there's positives in that. I feel less like the football equivalent of a privileged spoiled brat at meet ups with oppo fans for a start. We've been levelled, and there's a weird honour in taking it on the chin.
And obviously in an ideal world I do really want Moyes to succeed.
But when it comes down to it, whenever I get sucked into these discussions, I find myself compulsively drawn to the negative. Because lets be honest, of all jokes about Moyes when he was first appointed, he's done an admirably incredible job of hitting every single punchline with the vigour of an unsubtle BBCThree sitcom about himself. In slow motion. And comedy wigs. With a laugh track recorded from Sandbanks to Tyne and Wear.
It's impossible to ignore it. And similarly, it's almost impossible not to be sadistically amused by it all.
Last edited:
You've barely scratched the surface of what I don't like there.
I'm not even very fond of David Moyes.
No one is. I'd be amazed if Mrs Moyes is. There's very little to warm to tbf. I think it's basically just Phil Neville.
There you have it folks...Even Pogue has turned on Moyes. I knew you'd finally see sense.
Mrs Moyes: "Come to bed David...Make love to me!! I want to feel you inside of me!"
David Moyes: "Pffft....You need some form of knowledge in sexual intercourse to understand what turns me on!"
Imagine him complaining about luck after missing his mark so much that his wife gives up.
No wonder he can't do it if he keeps asking her to cross her legs all the time..Imagine him complaining about luck after missing his mark so much that his wife gives up.
You miss some key points - specifically the fact that fellaini was available for £4m less all summer. There is no way to spin it - it was a clusterfeck of epic proportions.
His development of Barkley? The guy he put out on loan all of last season and he's now starting every game for Everton? Speak to any efc fan and theyll tell you his handling of him was poor.
I never wanted him and im not surprised by anything this season. You cant gamble on the replacement of the greatest of all time. Moyes was a spectacular gamble. His handling of januzaj has been excellent, however, everything else has been a-typical David Moyes....defence before attack. All men behind the ball. That is not Man Utd and never will be. He was almost full of.glee last night at a point....to be honest, i found our whole set up depressing. He doesn't think like a winner and will not gamble to potentially win a game. Great managers take risks...ours just isn't wired that way.
Imagine him complaining about luck after missing his mark so much that his wife gives up.
"I kept hitting my balls into the box but just couldn't hit the target. I just couldn't slot it in with as many chances as I had"
"I must have got below her hairline about 8 or 9 times so I performed quite well. My boy was magnificent. Can't fault him for effort. But we move on and hopefully my luck will change"
Take your pick
Can I add riffing on David Moyes' sexual technique to my list of dislikes?
There's one Everton fan on this board and he was happy with how the loan turned out, tbf
- Status