Moyes So Far!

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Pogue Mahone said:
Agree with that. I was just making the point that a lot of elements fell into place to help him make a good start in his new job. When the opposite happened to Moyes.

All of which meant the momentum of the teams they took over went in opposite directions. Lukaku being available was just one piece in the puzzle.
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That is true but dont you think martinez's positive attitude had something to do with that? I remembered him getting laughed at when he said that they will aim for top four this season. That and them having a brilliant transfer window really gave them the perfect starting point to kick off from while it was completely opposite for us.
 
With regard to Everton, the board refuse to invest in the club so that has always been a stumbling block for them. Martinez has loaned some players for a season but they will leave at the end of a season. Loan signings can be useful but having to make them year upon year because the board will not invest as Martinez will find out is no way to run a football club challenging for high league places.
 
So it's fair to say that he's put his stamp on the squad already. Not counting the youngsters in the list, but just senior players, that's 9-10 players.

That isn't definitely a reason as to why they've done so well, but just throwing it out there as it's something many believe Moyes will probably need to do.

I think the key difference has been Barry, Deulofeu, Lukaku and McCarthy. Three loanees there from top teams, which will be gone in the summer. It will be interesting to see how they get on in the next few years, but I'm pretty convinced that they'll drop down the table when their loanees are gone and Barkley moves on.

TheGame said:
Didn't Moyes bring Barkley through initially?
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I included him as it's his first real consistent season as an Everton first team player.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
See, I agree with that. For all the thousands of words I type on here defending Moyes, I never thought he was the best man for the job. My biggest worry was what you point out. We needed someone who could inspire confidence immediately with his cv and status in the game. Otherwise, we risk seeing what happened this season. A massive loss of confidence from players shitting themselves about life without Fergie.

The thing is, he's here now. He's a better manager than a lot of people give him credit for and turning round the players (and fans) preconceived notions will take a bit of time. I still think/hope this is possible. Partly because I did think he was an excellent manager at Everton and partly because I'm willing to have some faith in Fergie's judgement. That's it really. I do understand the doubts. Just think people are not being open-minded enough as a result.
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I had the same doubts and have given him time. To me he has the end of the season to turn things around. One season is more than enough to judge a manager IMO. Also, you can't really blame folk for being close-minded as it relates to Moyes. Some never rated him so this just adds fuel to the fire. Others had doubts but backed him yet have less patience so are willing to throw him under the bus quickly. And then you have the fact that football is a highly emotive game and Manchester United means the world to a lot of people. Moyes has had a negative impact on the club so just like an angry mother, folk will lash out at the thing/person that's been the biggest change.
 
The real question before is not whether Moyes has done a very poor job so far -- without any doubt whatsoever, he has -- but whether he has any capacity within him to grow into the job of managing United.

His mistakes are behind him and there's nothing we can do to change the past, but has he learned from his mistakes?
 
MJJ said:
That is true but dont you think martinez's positive attitude had something to do with that? I remembered him getting laughed at when he said that they will aim for top four this season. That and them having a brilliant transfer window really gave them the perfect starting point to kick off from while it was completely opposite for us.
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I'm sure Martinez and Moyes both told their players they'd have a great season. Subsequent results gave weight to the words of one of them and undermined the other.

If we'd had a few more fixtures/results like the game against Swansea I reckon our players would have got more and more belief in ttheir new manager. The front-loading of difficult games messed that up.

Can't remember who Everton played in their opening games. Were they any easier than ours?
 
pocco said:
So it's fair to say that he's put his stamp on the squad already.
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Moyes and Woodward could have done that with some proper work in last summer's window. Getting a good CM who was mobile and had great technical ability as well as Coentrao and people would have been content. Not overjoyed but enough to give them a passing grade. Added to that, shifting out players who'd been performing under standard for a while would have laid down a marker and so this upcoming summer wouldn't have been seen as one that's pointing to upheaval.
 
pocco said:
How many players has Martinez brought in to Everton? Off the top of my head..

Barry
Deulofeu
Lukaku
Kone
Monaco striker
Barkley has broken into the first team
McCarthy
McGeady

Anyone else?
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How much was they cost combined?
 
pocco said:
So it's fair to say that he's put his stamp on the squad already. Not counting the youngsters in the list, but just senior players, that's 9-10 players.

That isn't definitely a reason as to why they've done so well, but just throwing it out there as it's something many believe Moyes will probably need to do.

I think the key difference has been Barry, Deulofeu, Lukaku and McCarthy. Three loanees there from top teams, which will be gone in the summer. It will be interesting to see how they get on in the next few years, but I'm pretty convinced that they'll drop down the table when their loanees are gone and Barkley moves on.



I included him as it's his first real consistent season as an Everton first team player.
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Agree with that. Although you mean Barry, not mccarthy, right?

McCarthy was a permanent signing. And a good one.
 
Gannicus said:
The real question before is not whether Moyes has done a very poor job so far -- without any doubt whatsoever, he has -- but whether he has any capacity within him to grow into the job of managing United.

His mistakes are behind him and there's nothing we can do to change the past, but has he learned from his mistakes?
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Judging from Everton and what their fans have said, he's not one to change things up. Last season's the first in years I can remember his Everton playing some nice football. Took him years to change in that regard.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm sure Martinez and Moyes both told their players they'd have a great season. Subsequent results gave weight to the words of one of them and undermined the other.

If we'd had a few more fixtures/results like the game against Swansea I reckon our players would have got more and more belief in ttheir new manager. The front-loading of difficult games messed that up.

Can't remember who Everton played in their opening games. Were they any easier than ours?
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They didnt win a single game in the whole of aug., won their first game against chelsea in the first week of sep. So I would say the end result was similar to ours?
 
Gannicus said:
The real question before is not whether Moyes has done a very poor job so far -- without any doubt whatsoever, he has -- but whether he has any capacity within him to grow into the job of managing United.

His mistakes are behind him and there's nothing we can do to change the past, but has he learned from his mistakes?
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I still think he can and will grow into the role. I can't defend what has happened this season but I just think he has it in him to sort it out. It's been a big underachievement by not only our standards, but his own too. He's had Everton performing much better than we have this season. He's already capable of much better with this set of players, but for whatever reason it hasn't happened.
 
roseguy64 said:
Moyes and Woodward could have done that with some proper work in last summer's window. Getting a good CM who was mobile and had great technical ability as well as Coentrao and people would have been content. Not overjoyed but enough to give them a passing grade. Added to that, shifting out players who'd been performing under standard for a while would have laid down a marker and so this upcoming summer wouldn't have been seen as one that's pointing to upheaval.
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I agree with that. The shambles that was the summer window was nobody's fault but our own.
 
roseguy64 said:
Moyes and Woodward could have done that with some proper work in last summer's window. Getting a good CM who was mobile and had great technical ability as well as Coentrao and people would have been content. Not overjoyed but enough to give them a passing grade. Added to that, shifting out players who'd been performing under standard for a while would have laid down a marker and so this upcoming summer wouldn't have been seen as one that's pointing to upheaval.
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Martinez didn't shift anyone out, so your comparison falls down there. Also, can you really blame moyes for not getting rid of a bunch of players that SAF had persisted with for years.

The transfer window was a disaster. Don't think any of us knows how much moyes is to blame.
 
pocco said:
I mentioned both Barry and McCarthy (as well as Lukaku and Deulofeu) as I think they've both been integral this season. I should have been clearer, but of the 4 players, three will be gone at the end of the season.
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Barry will likely sign on as a free transfer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Were they losing games? Or drawing? Being unbeaten is a big deal for a football team.
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Drawing but it was against norwich, west brom and cardiff. Games you really should be winning at this level so would say it would have been a minor setback for them rather then a thing of pride.
 
The man hasnt learned from his mistakes, and keeps on doing the same things that lost him matches, while alienating some of our best players. I dont know why many of you still stand by him. In the months gone by he has made us worse than we were ever before in the history of premiership.

He's lead this club backwards, and the only aspect of our game he improved is the number of crosses we do in a game. He even won us a record in crossing. He needs to go. If he's any bit of self respect he should resign and take his backroom staff him.

I was behind him 100%. But his stubbornness to try anything other than a 4-4-2 and persisting with two of our worst players on the wings, and other buffoonery, has turned me against him. I hate him now. He and the staff he brought in to the club is way out of their depth at a club this big.
 
With regard to yesterday's performance, I thought we did well. What we really showed which we haven't in previous games was our organisation and structure when we lost the ball with Rooney dropping back to make 5 in midfield. If RVP had taken that first chance we would have had a great start, the 2nd was a difficult one. I thought it was a typical away performance and one we saw under SAF as well with us trying to hit them on the counter. Its a shame we haven't shown this type of organisation before which might have won us a few more points this season. People also were moaning about 'he didn't go for the game; and 'he didn't bring strikers on' but 2 of the changes were enforced, Rafa injury and Mata looking tired. He could have bought Chico on for Valencia but then had we lost, people would have moaned about that. I would liked to have seen Chico introduced but like someone said earlier Rooney and RVP nearly scored later on. There was definitly some improvement compared to previous games. 4th place still looks like a long shot though.

People criticise selection and I'm one of the people who think Kagawa should be getting more games but I can see why Moyes prefers to opt for a winger on the other flank. I'm thinking he see two players drifting in (Mata and Kagawa say) as risky and this would leave the flanks exposed so he sticks to the one player doing that. Its not something I agree with but there appears to be some logic behind it. People are also moaning about Mata playing out wide but if you've seen the games where he has played for us, he has been drifting in alot and that is typical of many other clubs who opt to play a creative player out wide to drift in. The other option is to move Rooney to the left but I don't he wants to play out there.

I think our main problem is obviously the midfield which I must admit with players like Luis Gustavo going for cheap, wonders why we didn't get someone in. Players like Valencia and Cleverley are great players to have in a squad and use against lesser teams for squad rotation and giving players a rest but they like that top skill and talent to influence games against the top teams. I think the dramatic overhaul of the squad banded about will be risky because a big overhaul will mean players needing to bed in and that might take time. I think improvements in the key positions, CM, CB and LB will certainly help us and combined with keeping some of our current squad players will improve us next season.
 
girish said:
The man hasnt learned from his mistakes, and keeps on doing the same things that lost him matches, while alienating some of our best players. I dont know why many of you still stand by him. In the months gone by he has made us worse than we were ever before in the history of premiership.

He's lead this club backwards, and the only aspect of our game he improved is the number of crosses we do in a game. He even won us a record in crossing. He needs to go. If he's any bit of self respect he should resign and take his backroom staff him.

I was behind him 100%. But his stubbornness to try anything other than a 4-4-2 and persisting with two of our worst players on the wings, and other buffoonery, has turned me against him. I hate him now. He and the staff he brought in to the club is way out of their depth at a club this big.
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Oh for goodness sake, is the crossing comments still ocurring. I thought people would have let it go by now. it was not 4-4-2. Rooney played deep and Mata drifted in, if you watched the game , you would know.
 
David Moyes, Tactician Supreme:

"I am pleased, but I wanted all three points. Arsenal are having a great season, so it is not a bad draw for us.

"The way my luck was going I expected Mesut Ozil to score with a free-kick at the end. I am quite pleased with a lot of things we did.

"Nemanja Vidic and Rio Ferdinand were very good. They showed all their experience.

"I do not like talking about luck. But you hope it turns around.

"The last couple of games we have had Wayne Rooney and Robin van Persie back. The record with the two of them has been very good.

"We have a lot of catching up to do. We have to win games and keep plugging away."
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Moyes in 2014: (All comps)
P10 W2 D1 L7

What record is he referring to?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Martinez didn't shift anyone out, so your comparison falls down there.
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He shipped out Fellaini, who had been a hinderance to playing good football, for an outrageous sum. That was as good a bit of business as any of his signings.
 
pocco said:
I mentioned both Barry and McCarthy (as well as Lukaku and Deulofeu) as I think they've both been integral this season. I should have been clearer, but of the 4 players, three will be gone at the end of the season.
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Barry will be there next season too. Also if I am not mistaken they are trying to continue the lian with Deolofeu. Lukaku will leave for sure so much will be depended if Martinez can find a replacement for him.
 
pocco said:
Seemed more than willing to keep him until we offered big money.
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No chance he wanted to keep him. He always wanted McCarthy and just needed the funds to get him.

He didn't want to lose Baines, and Moyes has said we didn't 'split the bid' (i.e. make an offer for just Fellaini rather than both players) until the last day.
 
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MikeUpNorth said:
He shipped out Fellaini, who had been a hinderance to playing good football, for an outrageous sum. That was as good a bit of business as any of his signings.
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That's blatantly untrue. At least if it is, someone should point it out to the Belgian manager who has them playing some great stuff with Fellaini at the heart of it.
 
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