Well one of those has only appeared in 8 games total, the other has appeared in..4 games? I believe, it's hard to pin the money spent so far as an arguement for his terrible football style, I would agree completely the guy doesn't know how to attack effectively even with some of the best technical players in world football at his disposal.. and never will, but its hard to blame him as to why we've spent 60mill and not seen the improvent on the pitch.... yet.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
- Start date
- Status
Well one of those has only appeared in 8 games total, the other has appeared in..4 games? I believe, it's hard to pin the money spent so far as an arguement for his terrible football style, I would agree completely the guy doesn't know how to attack effectively even with some of the best technical players in world football at his disposal.. and never will, but its hard to blame him as to why we've spent 60mill and not seen the improvent on the pitch.... yet.
Found this, which doesn't mention Nasri among the top three:
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/new...nal-40-metre-sprint-record-article267131.html
Now, show me the proof, because this says you're the one talking waffle.
It's not just the 60 million though, he has rvp and Rooney too. People said they were the 2 best strikers in the league before the season started. Moyes didn't have the best of times with strikers at Everton either, most of them turned out poor and stopped scoring goals after having good records at previous clubs. No coincidence that rvp and Rooney are struggling too, although Rooney was good for a bit but has dropped off.
The approach to the game was right. There were even moments we tried to play. Even with the quality players we had on the pitch, as a collective we've just been drained of confidence so it was hard for them to translate to bursts of good play. As people have mentioned, hoofing the ball by the likes of Rooney and Young when there was space, the ending with Carrick/Cleverley looking to play safe and just the general lack of urgency. We throw on on Adnan and we pass the ball for a minute at the back with no signs of trying to find him.
We had a game plan in mind, we were not 4-4-2 as people moaned, we had the right personnel and ideas on the field for a game like this, just not able to execute due to low confidence. Hopefully the positives of how we defended, the way we were able to press at times and even some of the interplay we did manage can be taken and built upon.
More than anything I do hope after this Moyes has the gumption to go to the board behind closed doors and say "look, 4th is out of reach but what we can do is between now and the end of the season look to get United back to the feared attacking force and we will be playing games to help build the platform for next season. If you the board can ignore the results that are to come and judge me and the team on the performances and the play then I can go out there without shackling the team for the fear of losing"
If we can just go for it from here on out, really just play with freedom without fear of losing then maybe we don't start next season with the same fear. Maybe when we do play in the CL we are confident to be Manchester United and really give it a go. We have quality players and if we can raise the confidence of the team then who knows what can happen in a cup competition.
We had a game plan in mind, we were not 4-4-2 as people moaned, we had the right personnel and ideas on the field for a game like this, just not able to execute due to low confidence. Hopefully the positives of how we defended, the way we were able to press at times and even some of the interplay we did manage can be taken and built upon.
More than anything I do hope after this Moyes has the gumption to go to the board behind closed doors and say "look, 4th is out of reach but what we can do is between now and the end of the season look to get United back to the feared attacking force and we will be playing games to help build the platform for next season. If you the board can ignore the results that are to come and judge me and the team on the performances and the play then I can go out there without shackling the team for the fear of losing"
If we can just go for it from here on out, really just play with freedom without fear of losing then maybe we don't start next season with the same fear. Maybe when we do play in the CL we are confident to be Manchester United and really give it a go. We have quality players and if we can raise the confidence of the team then who knows what can happen in a cup competition.
I heard it from a French journalist on a podcast, not long after he signed for Arsenal.
Here's where I first mentioned it. Of course, you'll never know if I posted it with a view to winning this argument, 4 years later
Nasri isnt even in the top 20 fastest premier league players
http://www.ftbpro.com/posts/ian.stewart.palmer/128144/the-12-fastest-premier-league-players
I heard it from a French journalist on a podcast, not long after he signed for Arsenal.
Here's where I first mentioned it. Of course, you'll never know if I posted it with a view to winning this argument, 4 years later
I'll prefer the numbers from Wenger himself rather than an old post of you, but don't holde a grudge about it.
I think you can see with your naked eye that Nasri isn't among the fastest.
I've googled this a bit. It's nothing, zilch, on the internet about Nasri and sprint results, so I don't really know why you're insisting on this.
EDIT: Look at the post above. I think you're embarassing yourself here.
I know, I agree, and now Mata and Januzaj who for me is the most exciting technical young player in Europe right now and had him the other day hoofing it in from wide when he came on,
Watching his Everton team, you never got the sense he had any particular attacking prowess about him, though obviously a good manager in other areas, similary I actually saw his Preston side a long while back and they were equally solid and equally drab,
Really we've put in a conservative, if not defensive minded guy... for the longterm... in a club who's very identity is about attacking football, blows the mind.
yeah, it's me that's embarrassing myself. You realise that list posted above is just speeds from a specific selection of players, not including Nasri, followed by some random bloke's opinions on who he thinks the quickest players are?!I think I'll go with a comment from of a French football journalist with contacts at Arsenal football club over some random bod of the internet.
Anyway. This is way off topic. Thanks for the light relief though.
If Moyes let a proper coach take the training sessions and worked mostly with possession and moved away from 4-4-2 he would make life a lot easier on himself
What's Nasri's pace on ultimate team? Surely that's the only way we can sort this once and for all..
Granted it's goal.
I think I'll go with a comment from of a French football journalist with contacts at Arsenal football club over some random bod of the internet.
Anyway. This is way off topic. Thanks for the light relief though.
http://www.goal.com/en/people/france/7626/samir-nasri
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/people/england/11818/theo-walcott
Only twitter but they have been spot on with some of the news in the last month(s).
Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
Since when do we, Manchester United fans, concern ourselves with how Everton does? I blame the bitterness on wee Dave
I heard it from a French journalist on a podcast, not long after he signed for Arsenal.
Here's where I first mentioned it. Of course, you'll never know if I posted it with a view to winning this argument, 4 years later
Can you take the Nasri bollox into some other thread please? This is the wrinkly faced t!t thread, thanks.
Since we had a manager who recently managed a different club. So about 26 years or so.
Its true, we shouldnt be concerning ourselves with Everton but it seems unfair to me that 10 years of good work has been called into question because someone has come in and got them playing nice football for six months. It actually baffles me that people compare Moyes unfavourably with Martinez despite him taking Wigan down last season.
I prefer not to think of it as bitterness but Justice For Moyes.
Yeah, well done. You're able to repost something that was already posted (and responded to) on the same page. Impressive.
Don't think pace is it. Januzaj beats players with such ease. His sudden changes of pace or direction coupled with his technical ability and intelligent opens teams up far more than Valencia or young which creates space for us when we attack. And that is the purpose of pace after all.
Yep, the best bit of that clip. Hopefully the players improve at that in what remains of this season.
What is it then? I need answers.
10 years of good work? What did he actually achieve at Everton? Were Everton ever challenging for trophies? Did his tactics ever progress over the last decade?
He's a Scottish coach, with good work ethics. Steady. He would work out at Everton, Newcastle, Aston Villa, West Brom, Sunderland, those calibre of teams. @ Man United? Pls do one wee Dave.
Januzaj and mata probably need to improve their defensive game.
When I appraise Moyes' job at Everton I still think of them as the relegation fodder they were when he took over. For years they flirted with going down most seasons but then he came along and quickly established them as a consistent upper mid table, Europa level team. So yeah, I would call that 10 years of good work.
Yeah, I googled the same thing and came up with the same result. You're arguing about Nasri's pace on a Moyes thread. Just go WUM somewhere else pls if you have nothing else to contribute to the subject of this thread.
Kagawa offers some defensive protection though doesnt he? As much as Young, anyway.
Read back through the thread, numb-nuts, If you're going to wade into an off-topic discussion at least try to get a handle on the context first. Especially if your inspired contribution is to post something that was already posted on the same page.
Good work is what Martinez is doing at Everton. Good work is what Rogers is doing at Liverpool. Good work is what Simeone is doing at Atleti. Good work is what Pellegrini did at Villareal. Good work is what Klopp is doing at BVB.
These are Fergie's 8 Lessons of Leadership:
1. Start With the Foundation
2. Dare to Rebuild Your Team
3. Set High Standards and Hold Everyone to Them
4. Never, Ever Cede Control
5. Match the Message to the Moment
6. Prepare to Win
7. Rely on the Power of Observation
8. Never Stop Adapting
How would you rate Moyes' performance against every one of those tenets?
Seriously @Suedesi, I cant really answer with much conviction because I didnt follow Moyes at Everton all that closely. Im guessing he scores quite highly on Fergie's 8 Lesson Of Leadership Challenge, given Fergie was the one who hand-selected him to come in as his replacement.
I mean, "Start with a foundatin." Er.... no, Moyes didnt start with a foundation, he started with the walls. So thats one strike for him.
"Date to rebuild your team." He was there for 10 years, he made them very consistent, so yes, I would say he did some rebuilding.
"Set high standards." OK, now we are on shaky ground... but high standards are relative. 5th for Everton is a pretty good standard when they are up against "The Big 4". He even broke into it once or twice.
"Never ever cede control." I hear he is a control freak.
Im bored of this. Im going to skip to the end and say he scores well on it.
I mean, "Start with a foundatin." Er.... no, Moyes didnt start with a foundation, he started with the walls. So thats one strike for him.
"Date to rebuild your team." He was there for 10 years, he made them very consistent, so yes, I would say he did some rebuilding.
"Set high standards." OK, now we are on shaky ground... but high standards are relative. 5th for Everton is a pretty good standard when they are up against "The Big 4". He even broke into it once or twice.
"Never ever cede control." I hear he is a control freak.
Im bored of this. Im going to skip to the end and say he scores well on it.
I'm sick of this Martinez love in, he's taking them to the same league finish as last season and will probably finish with a similar or even less amount of goals scored. That's with a top quality striker in Lukaku.
Passing it about a bit doesn't suddenly make him the messiah.
True but what it does do is banish any idea that people have come up with about players adapting to Moyes tactics or that you need world class players to play entertaining football and finally maybe the most controversial, You can come into a club after a previous long managerial reign and do well regardless.
[/quote]
They can also see where Martinez wants to take them, and they're excited about it and rightly so.
That's a fair assessment, however, Everton fans are happier this season for many reasons but the main one is they are enjoying watching their team, not only play attractive football but are realistic challengers for the top 4 cup.
They can also see where Martinez wants to take them, and they're excited about it and rightly so.
But he's doing it against a far more difficult league this year.
It isnt just the length of the reign you are coming in to replace, it is the success of the reign that will determine the length of the shadow.
I had a conversation about this with a mate who supports Arsenal. He was saying how our plight filled him with dread about what happens to them when Wenger leaves. I suggested that while they may indeed have similar problems, I doubted they would be quite as acute because Wenger hasnt won anywhere near as much. So the person coming in to replace him wont have quite such an intimidating act to follow.
Length of service is clearly a big part of it. But success is equally big. So in a way following Mourinho at Chelsea (last time) might have been as hard as following Wenger at Arsenal will be.
Speaking of which, what is Avram Grant up to these days? If Klopp and Guardiola arent available maybe he could be the answer to our prayers.
I had a conversation about this with a mate who supports Arsenal. He was saying how our plight filled him with dread about what happens to them when Wenger leaves. I suggested that while they may indeed have similar problems, I doubted they would be quite as acute because Wenger hasnt won anywhere near as much. So the person coming in to replace him wont have quite such an intimidating act to follow.
Length of service is clearly a big part of it. But success is equally big. So in a way following Mourinho at Chelsea (last time) might have been as hard as following Wenger at Arsenal will be.
Speaking of which, what is Avram Grant up to these days? If Klopp and Guardiola arent available maybe he could be the answer to our prayers.
@ Adebesi I'm going to say he fails miserably @ 6, 7 and 8. 1-5 it's sort of unclear.
Fine, you like him I get it. I think he's a fraud, he perpetuated this myth of having no money to justify his lack of bollocks and ambition. If he was so talented, I'm sure he'd be offered / would have taken another job where he'd have a bigger budget but also pressure to win actual trophies. Instead, he stayed at Everton for 10 years, he was happy where he was, at the level he was and didn't have the guts to risk it. No guts, no glory.
Fine, you like him I get it. I think he's a fraud, he perpetuated this myth of having no money to justify his lack of bollocks and ambition. If he was so talented, I'm sure he'd be offered / would have taken another job where he'd have a bigger budget but also pressure to win actual trophies. Instead, he stayed at Everton for 10 years, he was happy where he was, at the level he was and didn't have the guts to risk it. No guts, no glory.
New Toy Syndrome.
If they finish in the bottom half of the table for a few seasons playing attractive football I can imagine therell be some revisionism among a lot of Everton fans.
I'm shocked at the amount of people who aren't seriously worried about giving this disaster a wad of cash in the summer.
I've stopped caring about Moyes at this stage, his mediocrity has already earned me a new username.
Martinez actually won an actual trophy. The FA cup, defeating Moyes in the process.
And he's taken Everton above us. While beating us at OT.
Moyes has taken the reigning champions + 36/70 million worth of talent to 7th.
Given time we'll crack the top 4.
- Status