Are you by any chance on the drink tonight?
Moyes So Far!
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Rene: No role was offered.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...hat-he-was-offered-a-coaching-role-at-Man-Utd
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...hat-he-was-offered-a-coaching-role-at-Man-Utd
The reason the Glazers have been hands off in the past is because Fergie consistently had us either winning or nearly winning trophies during their time in charge. They don't care about romantic notions of long term squad building projects, especially if it means a drop in the club's valuation. This is why I think they will take action at some point, unless Moyes dramatically turns it around next year in a similar way to what he did in his first and second years at Everton. The Glazers have the ultimate power at United and its their interests that will guide the process. I'm convinced that a second bad year after spending an unprecedented amount of money on players Fellaini, Mata, and the upcoming Summer buys, may force the Glazers to intervene. The media and fan shit storm will be insurmountable.
Uh oh. More red meat for the savages.
It would be very sweet to beat Liverpool...but on today's evidence...deary me...!!
Not exactly dynamite. Though I've no doubt people will make the most of this.
What's interesting is that he wasn't offered anything - or so he says - which means he wasn't offered any "insulting" job down the pecking order either, as has been suggested many times.
Don't forget that last week they gifted West Brom an equaliser. Maybe they'll be generous.
I see there are still people wondering why you don't just play Mata, Kagawa, and Januzaj and go for for creative slick passing, expecting that the dull rigidness of your team will go away when things start to click.
It won't. Rigidness is a feature for Moyes, just as it is for Hodgson. It means players are in the positions they should be when it's time to defend.
It probably also means, to him, that players always know where the ball should go when they get it.
Whatever improvements you see in your football won't be from more freeflowing football. It will be from playing your current game at a higher pace, better defending and with more quality in the final ball.
You'll learn to love it I'm sure.
It won't. Rigidness is a feature for Moyes, just as it is for Hodgson. It means players are in the positions they should be when it's time to defend.
It probably also means, to him, that players always know where the ball should go when they get it.
Whatever improvements you see in your football won't be from more freeflowing football. It will be from playing your current game at a higher pace, better defending and with more quality in the final ball.
You'll learn to love it I'm sure.
You're spot on I think. This is how Moyes wants to play the game, from what I gather. Fast, with rigid defensive shape. A flexible game is not something he ever valued at Everton, so I can't see it being something he brings to the table at all. He's just an uninspiring dinosaur of a manager to me.
What has happened to our counter attacking football we were so good at? He likes his team to play fast or with higher pace? I havent seen that either on a consistent level.
feck off B20 
Had a few but I´m serious. Also so sick and tired of the Liverpool love-in both here and where I live. You would have thought they were 12 Points clear at the top of the League. Well they are fecking 4th and they are not in the CL but still the wankers Think that they are on top of the World. It seems to me that they are nailed on to win the WC in Brazil ffs if I cared to listen to the feckwits.Are you by any chance on the drink tonight?
Daily Mail ~ Martinez urges Everton to think about the damage THEY can do to teams rather than vice versa, reveals Toffees keeper Howard
Am I the only one seeing in these quotes a criticism of the Moyes approach?
Could the dread and lack of confidence in the side not be attributed to an approach of focusing so much about what could go wrong that we've lost focus on getting things right?
Am I the only one seeing in these quotes a criticism of the Moyes approach?
Could the dread and lack of confidence in the side not be attributed to an approach of focusing so much about what could go wrong that we've lost focus on getting things right?
Very pointed and revealing quotes. He's contrasting Martinez's way of doing things to a different way of doing things, which, logically, can only be that of the previous manager. It dovetails perfectly with bits and pieces we hear from Old Trafford, and, indeed, with some of the things Moyes himself has said in public.
You have to assume that it's difficult for a team of 'winners' to swallow that kind of negative approach.
Martinez has been snide as f*ck about Moyes & United since he took over at Everton. Amazing arrogance & bandwagon-jumping for a boss who got his last club relegated.
If you're referring to the quotes in the last page, that was Howard talking.
Do we actually have quotes from Moyes in which he states than a job offer was made, or rather was it alleged to be so by the press?
They aren't Martinez quotes.
And tbh a few Everton players have said similar this season. Its not hard to pull quotes with similar implications from Jagielka, Distin, Mirallas and Pienaar.
I knew that - I was just testing the observational skills of the forum members. Honest.
*lies*
Maybe he should have been a bit more worried about what Liverpool could do to them.
Tim Howard do you mean?!
Yet another inside voice revealing the entirely disconcerting nature of Moyes the manager. It all ties in with what we are seeing from the two teams. Everton players look like they have been liberated whilst United players look like they have been caged by insecurities that they never even knew they had.
I am sure that Howard us probably lying though. Part of the conspiracy to make Moyes look inadequate as Manager of Manchester United.
Yet another inside voice revealing the entirely disconcerting nature of Moyes the manager. It all ties in with what we are seeing from the two teams. Everton players look like they have been liberated whilst United players look like they have been caged by insecurities that they never even knew they had.
I am sure that Howard us probably lying though. Part of the conspiracy to make Moyes look inadequate as Manager of Manchester United.
Go on then...
I've never seen any quotes from Moyes himself. The most common assumption has been that Rene was offered a youth team job - but that this wasn't in tune with his ambitions. And then there was James Ducker who told MUTV that Moyes had in fact offered Rene the Assistant Manager job - but again, I've never seen any quotes from Moyes himself about any of this.
Everton were very good to watch last season, it's amazing how short people's memories are. And re the other part, what a load of rubbish. Adnan, Rooney etc look so caged by insecurities..
The above interview with Tim Howard is as much an opening to criticise Martinez as it is potentially so with Moyes IMO. If not the individual quality of the defenders he inherited at Everton they would probably be leaking the sort of goals which so blighted Wigan, little appears to have changed for amiable Roberto in that aspect. It is one thing to have an instinctively offensive nature and quite another to maintain a near neglect of defensive tactics. Whilst he is still a relatively young manager this has been a trend of Martinez's at more than one club now, perhaps it is a risk he will always take.
@SilentWitness may be able to shed some light on the matter and whether he foresees it posing a problem in the future.
@SilentWitness may be able to shed some light on the matter and whether he foresees it posing a problem in the future.
there are lots of quotes from Everton players about positive changes under Martinez. I could probably have found more but it's more time consuming than I imagined...
Distin:
"We have always felt we could compete. It's just that the football is a bit different now and we feel we can compete not just through motivation but on the pitch. Everyone knew there would be a change because we have a different manager and it would take time to adapt. Maybe what people didn't expect was that it would happen so quickly."He does credit Martínez's intensive work on the training ground and the Spaniard's passing philosophy with allowing Everton to go "eye-to-eye" – the manager's words – with the wealthy elite of the Premier League. "We just focus on us, no matter who we play," Distin says. "That's the message the manager is trying to give us. Whether we're against the top or the bottom teams we have our style, it's about us first."
The adaptation was not straightforward. The former Newcastle United, Manchester City and Portsmouth player says: "For me it was harder. As a defender it sometimes feels strange because it's based on possession, a lot of passing, which starts from the back. It's only been 14 games and I am still adapting. We are still learning together.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/06/roberto-martinez-everton-sylvain-distin
Jagielka: "This pre-season has been drastically different,"
"Normally you're working a lot harder off the ball - you're running around and the balls rarely come out.
"But the new manager has different views. We've got to start to adapt now to the way he wants us to play."
http://www1.skysports.com/news/12040/8828996/
Video: "the new manager has come in and brightened up the place...." http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24301716
Pienaar: "We tried to play good football last season and the new manager actually hasn't tried to change that much because the core of the team is still here. We've just tried to be a bit more patient and not quite as direct. I think supporters at the start of the season were a bit uncertain about us building from the back but they are with it now; the results speak for themselves."
Pienaar dismisses suggestions that this mini-revolution has been achieved by Martínez demanding a certain number of passes per player per game. "We are passing the ball more but it is not really like that," he says. "The only demand the manager makes of us is to go out and dominate a game.
"It takes a lot of hard work and courage but the basic idea is that, if you can keep the ball, you are not working as hard as the other team. Keeping hold of the ball is not just about passing, it is about moving to find space and provide options, so you have to be fit. The work ethic of the team is unbelievable, though, and the manager is always relaxed. He never really gets angry, just more positive. Thinking about it, he might just be the most positive person I've ever come across; he's definitely up there.
"We beat Fulham 4-1 the other day and he was annoyed because some of the players hadn't looked like they were enjoying themselves. Winning is not enough, he wants us to win with a smile on our face." "It is too early to talk of expectations at the moment, better just to keep on enjoying our football. That is all Martínez ever asks us to do. In the dressing room before the Arsenal game he just said: 'Get over your fears. This is a moment to enjoy.' That was his team talk. And the thing is, that is exactly what we did." http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/21/steven-pienaar-roberto-martinez-everton
Mirallas: "For me it is better, although I was very happy playing under David Moyes because he is a good manager. But Roberto is different because the Spanish style of playing football is different.
"It's easier because I speak Spanish with him and I understand better. The Spanish style of football is my type of football and with Roberto it is very different.
"Every day I have spoken with him and it's helped my confidence. I feel I am more consistent now and I am playing better and better."
Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/249693.html#soHbqjuwzgUo3FOD.99
Kevin Mirallas, when asked what was different about Roberto Martínez's training last month, admitted it was "less Scottish".http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/07/david-moyes-manchester-united_n_4405326.html
"We have always felt we could compete. It's just that the football is a bit different now and we feel we can compete not just through motivation but on the pitch. Everyone knew there would be a change because we have a different manager and it would take time to adapt. Maybe what people didn't expect was that it would happen so quickly."He does credit Martínez's intensive work on the training ground and the Spaniard's passing philosophy with allowing Everton to go "eye-to-eye" – the manager's words – with the wealthy elite of the Premier League. "We just focus on us, no matter who we play," Distin says. "That's the message the manager is trying to give us. Whether we're against the top or the bottom teams we have our style, it's about us first."
The adaptation was not straightforward. The former Newcastle United, Manchester City and Portsmouth player says: "For me it was harder. As a defender it sometimes feels strange because it's based on possession, a lot of passing, which starts from the back. It's only been 14 games and I am still adapting. We are still learning together.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/06/roberto-martinez-everton-sylvain-distin
Jagielka: "This pre-season has been drastically different,"
"Normally you're working a lot harder off the ball - you're running around and the balls rarely come out.
"But the new manager has different views. We've got to start to adapt now to the way he wants us to play."
http://www1.skysports.com/news/12040/8828996/
Video: "the new manager has come in and brightened up the place...." http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24301716
Pienaar: "We tried to play good football last season and the new manager actually hasn't tried to change that much because the core of the team is still here. We've just tried to be a bit more patient and not quite as direct. I think supporters at the start of the season were a bit uncertain about us building from the back but they are with it now; the results speak for themselves."
Pienaar dismisses suggestions that this mini-revolution has been achieved by Martínez demanding a certain number of passes per player per game. "We are passing the ball more but it is not really like that," he says. "The only demand the manager makes of us is to go out and dominate a game.
"It takes a lot of hard work and courage but the basic idea is that, if you can keep the ball, you are not working as hard as the other team. Keeping hold of the ball is not just about passing, it is about moving to find space and provide options, so you have to be fit. The work ethic of the team is unbelievable, though, and the manager is always relaxed. He never really gets angry, just more positive. Thinking about it, he might just be the most positive person I've ever come across; he's definitely up there.
"We beat Fulham 4-1 the other day and he was annoyed because some of the players hadn't looked like they were enjoying themselves. Winning is not enough, he wants us to win with a smile on our face." "It is too early to talk of expectations at the moment, better just to keep on enjoying our football. That is all Martínez ever asks us to do. In the dressing room before the Arsenal game he just said: 'Get over your fears. This is a moment to enjoy.' That was his team talk. And the thing is, that is exactly what we did." http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/21/steven-pienaar-roberto-martinez-everton
Mirallas: "For me it is better, although I was very happy playing under David Moyes because he is a good manager. But Roberto is different because the Spanish style of playing football is different.
"It's easier because I speak Spanish with him and I understand better. The Spanish style of football is my type of football and with Roberto it is very different.
"Every day I have spoken with him and it's helped my confidence. I feel I am more consistent now and I am playing better and better."
Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/249693.html#soHbqjuwzgUo3FOD.99
Kevin Mirallas, when asked what was different about Roberto Martínez's training last month, admitted it was "less Scottish".http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/12/07/david-moyes-manchester-united_n_4405326.html
Granted, that was a little dramatic but Rooney, Adnan etc? Clutching at straws I think. Those two plus De Gea and possibly Jones are the only three players who have been up to standard this season. Carrick, Rafael, Hernandez, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Cleverley, Nani and Valencia have all been in shadow mode, playing well below what they are capable of.
Everton last season? Yeah their football really was the toast of Europe. Please don't exaggerate. They were less negative than usual but that is all.
Moyes, as he is, is not good enough to manage Manchester United. He needs to evolve. Can he do it? I am sceptical.
I read recently how Distin commented how much he had made him a better player, a better defender. Tim Cahill was on Talksport a few weeks back saying how Moyes got the best out of him and made him play above the level he thought he was at. I don't see the negativity in what Howard has said. He's hardly going to say that his previous manager was better this and that, is he?
Another case of folk looking to smash Moyes for no reason.
In other news, both Fabio and Zaha were atrocious today. Must have been Fergie, Phelan, Rene who decided to ship them out.....
Another case of folk looking to smash Moyes for no reason.
In other news, both Fabio and Zaha were atrocious today. Must have been Fergie, Phelan, Rene who decided to ship them out.....
That sentence pretty much sums it all up.
I also read Howard praising the impact Moyes had on his career too, so it's not criticism, but praising the positive shift in mentality and approach the team now have under Martinez.
All of that just reiterates what many United fans already thought about Moyes. Small-time, negative manager whose preferred tactics and training methods should have died with the dinosaurs. Jagielka's quote about the ball not coming out offers insight into Moyes "hard-working" training that has worked so well for our team's performances and fitness this season.
Many of those you mentioned weren't great last season with the exception of Carrick and Rafael, but injuries have been their main issues. Valencia has arguably been better this season, but still not as good as prior years.
Less negative then normal?! Obvious clear bias against the manager so little point debating with you.
I see you are a Verheijen disciple. I guess you must be watching our training and team talks to know about his tactics and methods.
Haha, so true mate. There are numerous threads currently running either about them, their manager or Suarez. The Caf is obsessed with them.
And why oh why do their fans feel the need to go on a rival fans chat forum...and some of them literally in every thread. Get a fcuking life...or a girlfriend.
In a nut-shell for me. You get the feeling Moyes is fighting his natural instincts as a manager to succeed at United, this was summed up for me against Stoke where he threw Welbeck on because he thought "yeah that's a attacking change"
He spent most of his career trying to stop the other team from playing I wonder if he even has the capacity to play more expansive football.
Well lets hold up a second, we've had our fair share of injuries in the past but this season really takes the biscuit. In fact the players that don't seem effected are players who you would normally attribute with being very good athletes. Now it could be that the players are all that much older but I think some of the training methods could be looked at
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“You want to get out of Old Trafford alive – that used to be our saying.”
Sums up Moyes.
Sums up Moyes.
In the interests of balance I saw an interview with Howard a few weeks ago where he praised Moyes, blamed the players for our current form and said Moyes would get it right here because he's a great manager.
Verheijen has no access to our training and has no idea what it involves. He comes across as horribly embittered man who hasn't had the career he believes he deserves and his only way to get noticed is to be controversial on twitter. Unfortunately people seem to give him the time.
No, I just read what one of Moyes' players said about his training methods. It's a primary source. Aside from that, I've watched his teams' football for the past decade. His teams are reactive and have no identity of their own. The only discernible quality of Moyes' tactical knowledge this season--or last--is his focus on line-hugging wing play. United play substantially less through the middle this year versus last year, more down the wings, and more on the back foot.
I suppose I should just ignore all the evidence of his ineptitude and place the blame at the feet of everyone but Moyes.
If you are referring to Jagielka he was talking about pre-season, not during the season and it may have changed at United, you have no idea.
Oh yeah, like at Everton he had line hugging wide players such as Mirallas and Pienaar..Do people even think before they type? And his team had no identity?!
If you want to look at reactive teams, surely Mourinho is the epitome of that, yet he's revered on here by many?
I've never said he's not to blame..I just think too many people just spout utter rubbish because they don't actually like the man.
I was watching the city game the other night and they actually set up very similar to us. 2 strikers, the wide right player generally keeping width, the wide left player given license to roam infield, and two very attacking fullbacks getting to the touchline and getting balls into the box. So Pellegrini must be a dinosaur too..
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