Moyes So Far!

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People who are putting Vidal in their starting line-up will be left with an egg on their faces September 1st. He will not sign.
 
Getsme said:
I'd love to disagree with you here, but I feel you're spot on. The only way I see Moyes losing his job is it's it's finincial. Fergie and Bobby will back their original decision to the death, I do trust Fergie, but football has moved on and his choice of managers previously have all but failed in their roles.
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What if, hypothetically speaking, the club takes a nose dive under Moyes and we end up mired in the bottom half of the table with players leaving as fast as they can. What if the fans say "enough?" Will they back their decision then or will they, for the good of the club, show Moyes the door?
 
Moriarty said:
What if, hypothetically speaking, the club takes a nose dive under Moyes and we end up mired in the bottom half of the table with players leaving as fast as they can. What if the fans say "enough?" Will they back their decision then or will they, for the good of the club, show Moyes the door?
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It's more realistic to say a couple of seasons out of the champions league combined with excessive spending and a high wage bill, will take the decision out of Fergie and Bobby's hands.
However, in the scenario you suggest, then I'd say that's as close to bottom as the club could get, Fergie and Bobby would have no grounds to defend their original decision, therefore they would have no other option than to let Moyes go. Again though it comes down to money.

The club will always come first with Bobby and Fergie, they've shown that to be the case in the past, however they also stick by their principles and I'd imagine it's going to come down to money if Moyes gets sacked, not on the advice of Fergie or Bobby.
 
I really think the only way he's be sacked is in Nike lowball the shirt contract offer.
 
With the way things are going, he's the man that's going to do our rebuilding us with 4-5 purchases this summer. People should hope he's a success long term.
 
Am I the only one that's a bit embarassed by the fact that we've had a thread called "David Moyes Sack Watch" constantly amongst the most active on the site for the last week?

It's the sort of thread title you'd expect lots of excitable scouser to be posting uner on RAWK.

Obviously people are entitled to their opinions on whether Moyes is the right man, and are entitled to discuss them, but while he's the manager do we really need such public displays of anti-support?

Could we not merge this with the general Moyes So Far thread thread or at least change the title to something a bit less negative or something?
 
Jaap said:
People who are putting Vidal in their starting line-up will be left with an egg on their faces September 1st. He will not sign.
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Perhaps not. But if we're willing to pay we will land a top player for the position. Of that I have no doubt. Vidal makes a pittance at Juve compared to what we could offer him, apparently. Money tends to matter to these modern footballers.
 
Fergie's still in charge of the whole thing. Moyes is not going anywhere and looks like some cards are already shown about club's future.

Rebuilding will be hard but not impossible. Further avalanches of criticism may fall on Moyes but nothing will stop this train. Nothing.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Perhaps not. But if we're willing to pay we will land a top player for the position. Of that I have no doubt. Vidal makes a pittance at Juve compared to what we could offer him, apparently. Money tends to matter to these modern footballers.
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If there's even a hint of Vidal being available, Real Madrid will be all over him. We have a minuscule chance, at best. The William Carvalho rumours are far more credible.
 
Moriarty said:
What if, hypothetically speaking, the club takes a nose dive under Moyes and we end up mired in the bottom half of the table with players leaving as fast as they can. What if the fans say "enough?" Will they back their decision then or will they, for the good of the club, show Moyes the door?
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I think Charlton and Fergie have certain expectations. And I don't think they'll stand by Moyes regardless of how he fares. If he lands the players he has targeted (there or thereabouts) this summer, the expectation will be that we are up there. Taking a nose dive isn't an option, I really don't think so. Charlton said himself not too long ago that United can't be lingering down the table for ever. Moyes will have to deliver - and sooner rather than later if we're looking at his six year contract. He doesn't have some sort of free pass - my prediction is that if we're in a similar position to where we are now come Christmas, Moyes is done for. With Fergie's and Bobby's blessings, as it were.
 
Siorac said:
If there's even a hint of Vidal being available, Real Madrid will be all over him. We have a minuscule chance, at best. The William Carvalho rumours are far more credible.
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Alright, fine. Let's buy someone else then. Our future doesn't depend on Vidal.
 
Stack said:
We have turned in to RAWK....
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It's sad to see a thread like this, especially after the words from SAF after his last game at OT. Another thing is that we are empowering the fans of other teams that are checking out this site. Many of my friends that are supporting other teams are using threads like this at The Redcafe to somehow label us and OUR manager this way and that way.

Let this shit sink or at least change the title. We are United?
 
Giggsforever said:
It's sad to see a thread like this, especially after the words from SAF after his last game at OT. Another thing is that we are empowering the fans of other teams that are checking out this site. Many of my friends that are supporting other teams are using threads like this at The Redcafe to somehow label us and OUR manager this way and that way.

Let this shit sink or at least change the title. We are United?
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It's a football forum, if people want to chat about it let them. Who cares what other fans think.
 
We can, and I think do, all agree Moyes was NOT the ideal pick for the job. We know who was.

But here we are and what we should hope for is that Moyes gets his act together and rights the ship. At this point in time, February 7, righting the ship means getting us to fourth place or at worst a very close fifth place finish. We can't change the past but we can affect the future and by affecting the future Moyes can modify his tactics to get the best out of what actually is a pretty decent squad, a squad which ran away with the prem trophy last season.

If Moyes refuses to budge and continues to play hoofball and we end up eighth or ninth I can't see how Fergie would resist the demands of red mancunians worldwide to sack Moyes and sort this shit out.
 
Gannicus said:
We can, and I think do, all agree Moyes was NOT the ideal pick for the job. We know who was.

But here we are and what we should hope for is that Moyes gets his act together and rights the ship. At this point in time, February 7, righting the ship means getting us to fourth place or at worst a very close fifth place finish. We can't change the past but we can affect the future and by affecting the future Moyes can modify his tactics to get the best out of what actually is a pretty decent squad, a squad which ran away with the prem trophy last season.

If Moyes refuses to budge and continues to play hoofball and we end up eighth or ninth I can't see how Fergie would resist the demands of red mancunians worldwide to sack Moyes and sort this shit out.
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How do you regard the Mata signing in this light? Is it in keeping with his rigid hoofball policy?
 
Sir A1ex said:
Am I the only one that's a bit embarassed by the fact that we've had a thread called "David Moyes Sack Watch" constantly amongst the most active on the site for the last week?

It's the sort of thread title you'd expect lots of excitable scouser to be posting uner on RAWK.

Obviously people are entitled to their opinions on whether Moyes is the right man, and are entitled to discuss them, but while he's the manager do we really need such public displays of anti-support?

Could we not merge this with the general Moyes So Far thread thread or at least change the title to something a bit less negative or something?
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Its just a thread on internet.
 
Stack said:
We have turned in to RAWK....
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Why are people insisting at this? Have you ever read RAWK? I doub that even WOy (who was very unpopular there) had as many threads against him during his entire time as we made about Moyes after a single loss.

One of the best thing of redcafe is that it is a very democratic forum (at least compared with the majority of football formus) where people aren't forced to post stuff they don't believe. If people think that Moyes isn't good then what, force them to say that he is brilliant. If you think that he is good, then you could simply not go in those threads and call for threads to get locked and other stuff.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Firstly, you missed the new CB and LB.

Even then, With a change in how we play? Yes, a top CM and a change towards a more continental style (for the want of a better word) and we'd play much better.
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Problem is everyone here is looking at our lack of midfield creativity as the sole reason why we have been playing this bad this season but thinking about it more in attack and defence we have some quality players. Hell even if you look at out midfield Carrick, Cleverly and Fletcher aren't bad players but in cleverlys case hes being used in a system that highlights his short comings as a player. He hasn't got the positioning or killer pass that we would like a midfielder partner to Carrick to have, still hes not so bad that no other PS club would have him.

For me we have been playing bad football for a while but with the players we have I feel like the manager just isn't getting enough out of them...
 
Revan said:
Why are people insisting at this? Have you ever read RAWK? I doub that even WOy (who was very unpopular there) had as many threads against him during his entire time as we made about Moyes after a single loss.

One of the best thing of redcafe is that it is a very democratic forum (at least compared with the majority of football formus) where people aren't forced to post stuff they don't believe. If people think that Moyes isn't good then what, force them to say that he is brilliant. If you think that he is good, then you could simply not go in those threads and call for threads to get locked and other stuff.
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You're right about that. The RAWK model would be to lock any thread criticizing the manager. I've said so many times this season - what we're witnessing at the Caf isn't RAWKish at all. It's just less than stoic reactions to our current predicament. Which may - to neutral observers - serve to dispel any possible myth that United fans are different from any other set of fans.
 
Mainoldo said:
Who wouldn't sign Mata when your 7th in the league. Remember this is the guy that earlier turned down Ozil.
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He would still be a fairly useless signing for a manager who thinks the way forward is "hoofball". And Mata and Özil aren't identical in style. The former is far better suited to a wide-ish role in a three behind the striker.
 
Won´t read it through but Fergie inherited players like Robson, McGrath, Whiteside, Strachan, Moran, Olsen, Moses aso aso. He also inherited an ageing squad and decided to rebuild and we were fecking shite for a couple of years unlike under Atkinson where we played very attractive football most of the time finishing in the top 4- Then he turned us into worldbeaters but it didn´t go overnight. Moyes inherited the Champions but he ALSO inherited an ageing squad atleast when it comes to the backbone players who has won us the title the past few seasons. Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Giggs, Van Persie and Scholes is retired. Moyes will need to rebuild aswell so atleast give him some fecking time. He was also the choice of the greatest manager of all time and he was also mentioned in SAF,s speech. something about giving the new manager support.......
 
Giggsforever said:
Chat about him, of course, but I rather we showed some class about it, not acted like RAWK.
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Act like RAWK
Have you actually read this thread it's nothing like RAWK? It's a good debate, and I'm enjoying the differing views on the subject.
 
This thread is my legacy. It will survive David Moyes.

@PTME__MUFC
 
Cal? said:
This a million times, some people act like every manager given time comes good, and so far most of the Moyes stay camp has refused to answer a simple question:

Was Liverpool wrong to sack Woy when they did?
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As you well know that's an unanswerable question. How do we know Liverpool wouldn't be sitting top of the league if Hodgson had stayed?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I think Charlton and Fergie have certain expectations. And I don't think they'll stand by Moyes regardless of how he fares. If he lands the players he has targeted (there or thereabouts) this summer, the expectation will be that we are up there. Taking a nose dive isn't an option, I really don't think so. Charlton said himself not too long ago that United can't be lingering down the table for ever. Moyes will have to deliver - and sooner rather than later if we're looking at his six year contract. He doesn't have some sort of free pass - my prediction is that if we're in a similar position to where we are now come Christmas, Moyes is done for. With Fergie's and Bobby's blessings, as it were.
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Charlton said something similar just after he retired in 1973. Nobody foresaw relegation in 1970 but the club deteriorated in the space of three seasons until it became inevitable. By the time Docherty took over, it was far too late for him to avoid the crash. Fergie is an avid student of history and he's well aware of what happened after Busby retired. When Fergie called it a day, he left a sound infrastructure at the club, a solid youth system, and a team that was, well, perhaps not as good as might have been even though they were champions. Now the owners must invest money that they should have done three years ago. I still do not believe that Fergie's "no value in the market" was anything more than code for "I've got no money to spend."

I think your timeline sounds about right. Moyes will get the next transfer window and the first half of next season to get us back on track. That is more than enough time if he's as good as Fergie thinks he is. He hasn't helped himself though. I still can't fathom what Round, Neville, and Lumsden bring to the club that's am improvement on the men who left. Round looks gormless, Lumsden resembles an old dosser who sleeps in car parks, and Neville's a novice. Never should have appointed any of them.
 
Moriarty said:
Charlton said something similar just after he retired in 1973. Nobody foresaw relegation in 1970 but the club deteriorated in the space of three seasons until it became inevitable. By the time Docherty took over, it was far too late for him to avoid the crash. Fergie is an avid student of history and he's well aware of what happened after Busby retired. When Fergie called it a day, he left a sound infrastructure at the club, a solid youth system, and a team that was, well, perhaps not as good as might have been even though they were champions. Now the owners must invest money that they should have done three years ago. I still do not believe that Fergie's "no value in the market" was anything more than code for "I've got no money to spend."

I think your timeline sounds about right. Moyes will get the next transfer window and the first half of next season to get us back on track. That is more than enough time if he's as good as Fergie thinks he is. He hasn't helped himself though. I still can't fathom what Round, Neville, and Lumsden bring to the club that's am improvement on the men who left. Round looks gormless, Lumsden resembles an old dosser who sleeps in car parks, and Neville's a novice. Never should have appointed any of them.
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Your judgement on these two is based on looks?
 
Rednotdead said:
As you well know that's an unanswerable question. How do we know Liverpool wouldn't be sitting top of the league if Hodgson had stayed?
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You can't, you can only judge it on probability. Liverpool where going nowhere under Hodgson, the odds would be stacked against him being top of the league at this time, or anytime to be honest.
 
Moriarty said:
Charlton said something similar just after he retired in 1973. Nobody foresaw relegation in 1970 but the club deteriorated in the space of three seasons until it became inevitable. By the time Docherty took over, it was far too late for him to avoid the crash. Fergie is an avid student of history and he's well aware of what happened after Busby retired. When Fergie called it a day, he left a sound infrastructure at the club, a solid youth system, and a team that was, well, perhaps not as good as might have been even though they were champions. Now the owners must invest money that they should have done three years ago. I still do not believe that Fergie's "no value in the market" was anything more than code for "I've got no money to spend."

I think your timeline sounds about right. Moyes will get the next transfer window and the first half of next season to get us back on track. That is more than enough time if he's as good as Fergie thinks he is. He hasn't helped himself though. I still can't fathom what Round, Neville, and Lumsden bring to the club that's am improvement on the men who left. Round looks gormless, Lumsden resembles an old dosser who sleeps in car parks, and Neville's a novice. Never should have appointed any of them.
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I'm not in a position to either laud or criticize the appointments of those people. I don't particularly like the looks of any of 'em, to be brutally honest - certainly not Round and Lumsden. But I'm going with the assumption that it all floats or sinks with Moyes. If these characters are the side-kicks he wants, then so be it - he is the manager.

I'm not sure what you imply with "no value". If Moyes isn't given the necessary means to reinforce we are well and truly fecked. And that would've been the case whoever was in charge, surely. We need to buy ourselves at least a first rate central midfielder and a top quality left back. Possibly a top notch centre half too. And if the owners aren't prepared to pay market price (and possibly beyond market price too - not least for that CM) we are up the creek, as they say. Any manager would be up the creek without financial backing in this.
 
Magnus said:
Won´t read it through but Fergie inherited players like Robson, McGrath, Whiteside, Strachan, Moran, Olsen, Moses aso aso. He also inherited an ageing squad and decided to rebuild and we were fcuking shite for a couple of years unlike under Atkinson where we played very attractive football most of the time finishing in the top 4-
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Yeah, but for starters Fergie took the Atkinson team and took it to second within a year and a half. Obviously there were struggles once he started to really rebuild it, but Moyes has been seriously struggling before the rebuilding phase even started.
 
Rednotdead said:
As you well know that's an unanswerable question. How do we know Liverpool wouldn't be sitting top of the league if Hodgson had stayed?
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We don't know but I think that it is slightly less possible than Bebe winning the Ballon D'Or this year if we had kept him instead of shipping him on loans.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I'm not in a position to either laud or criticize the appointments of those people. I don't particularly like the looks of any of 'em, to be brutally honest - certainly not Round and Lumsden. But I'm going with the assumption that it all floats or sinks with Moyes. If these characters are the side-kicks he wants, then so be it - he is the manager.

I'm not sure what you imply with "no value". If Moyes isn't given the necessary means to reinforce we are well and truly fecked. And that would've been the case whoever was in charge, surely. We need to buy ourselves at least a first rate central midfielder and a top quality left back. Possibly a top notch centre half too. And if the owners aren't prepared to pay market price (and possibly beyond market price too - not least for that CM) we are up the creek, as they say. Any manager would be up the creek without financial backing in this.
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I was just thinking back to Fergie's statements about value. I always thought that this was his was of saying we've got no money to spend. Now, with Fergie gone, a very heavy investment in players is needed and soon. It's just my opinion but I think the debt stymied growth and starved Fergie of the money he needed to strengthen the squad and replace aging players during his last three seasons. Sure, we won the league but that was down in no small part to Fergie's genius at motivating his players. I was being flippant about Lumsden and Round but were I a player who'd won all there is to win in the game, I wouldn't take too kindly to being told what to do by coaches whose greatest achievement was losing a cup final. As for market price, United rarely, if ever, pay the going rate; it's always higher. Why should clubs sell to us on the cheap?
 
Getsme said:
Act like RAWK
Have you actually read this thread it's nothing like RAWK? It's a good debate, and I'm enjoying the differing views on the subject.
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Have you seen the thread title? It's horrible, but the content is not as bad as certain threads at RAWK. As I said, SAF told me to support the manager and it's what I will do (and there is reasons other than Moyes why this season has been bad). I started supporting United when SAF started as a manager, and for what he has given me, I will support OUR new manager for longer than six months. I expect us to be challange for the title next year, and if we fail, then I will want us to go for another manager (I wanted Mourinho in the summer).

But, for now I will support our manager, we should all be UNITED as it will help Moyes and the club.
 
Rednotdead said:
As you well know that's an unanswerable question. How do we know Liverpool wouldn't be sitting top of the league if Hodgson had stayed?
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It's about making the best decision given the current circumstances. Nothing in the world is certain, no one is certain Mourinho would do a great job at Chelsea, but most people have A fair idea. Likewise no one is certain that Hodgson wasn't going to turn it round at Pool, but he looked out of his depth, much like Moyes currently at united.
 
Giggsforever said:
Have you seen the thread title? It's horrible, but the content is not as bad as certain threads at RAWK. As I said, SAF told me to support the manager and it's what I will do (and there is reasons other than Moyes why this season has been bad). I started supporting United when SAF started as a manager, and for what he has given me, I will support OUR new manager for longer than six months. I expect us to be challange for the title next year, and if we fail, then I will want us to go for another manager (I wanted Mourinho in the summer).

But, for now I will support our manager, we should all be UNITED as it will help Moyes and the club.
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We all have different expectations. there is quite a huge change taking place at Utd and I dont expect us to be challenging for the title next season as with a number of new players probably coming in and the players who are leaving at the end of this season mean I expect it to take another full season to really come right. Fergie did take time to get the mix right when he rebuilt teams.
What I do expect from next season is a big improvement in how we play. If we start to improve we will win a title again.
 
I fear for Moyes. A lot of us who have been advising patience have said he deserves another transfer window to get things right. However, the job he has to do in the summer is looking bigger and bigger. Two CMs, a LB, a CB and god knows what else, all top quality. That's a lot of work to get through, with no room for the sort of poor signing every manager makes from time to time.

I want Moyes to succeed but I can't see how he'll strengthen enough in the summer. Even if he does, I can't see how he'll integrate them all into the team straight away. We're bound to make a slow start to next season. That'll place him under a lot of pressure as the fans will be expecting a title challenge and much of their patience will have run out. If we end up out of the title race around Christmas...
 
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