Moyes So Far!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marching said:
I couldn't agree more about some of you acting like spoilt brats.
Click to expand...
Completely disagree, many on here would have settled for fourth this season, from champions to fourth isn't being unreasonable or spoilt.

Marching said:
Football doesn't work like some of you think. Having the same manager for 26 years has huge advantages but once he goes it then becomes a huge disadvantage. Players have known exactly where they are for many seasons and become a real 'team' whereas now there is a lot of uncertainty which I think is showing in their play.
Click to expand...
This is very true, everyone knew when Sir Alex left that it was going to be tough, very tough. However that's why it was vitally important that we got the right man in, a man with vast experience of working with the best players, a man who has won everything there is to win, a man who can put his own stamp on the team. We got Moyes.

Marching said:
. I can see why Ferguson left when he did....even allowing for the team winning the league it was creaking at the back with Vidic and Rio needing replacing, Giggs had served his time, Rooney needed persuading to stay and the season following a league title is always the hardest.
Click to expand...
The team does need rebuilding, however I believe that Fergie thought he left the team in a good place, good young players combined with experienced ones with what looks like a heathy bank account, can we really go from Champs to chumps in the space of six months?

Marching said:
Time is something owners rarely give their managers but that is exactly what Moyes needs. I am fairly sure he'll get that time from the owners but maybe the fans will turn MU into what every other PL club has become and force their manager out. MU fans need to realise that Moyes is not Ferguson and to suggest he doesn't have passion or is trying is more than a bit daft. Of course he is trying but he and your team is in for a period of transition.
Click to expand...
How much time is to much time?
The truth is, we are seeing no improvement, in fact I think it's fair to say we are going backwards, we have never finished outside the top 3 in the PL, we are currently 7th behind Everton, Liverpool and Spurs with Newcastle and Southhamton close on our tails. That's not what's worrying me though, it's the direction he seems to be taking us, one dimensional predictable football. If he gave even the smallest glimmer of improvement or implemented his own style then I'm sure the criticism would stop, but he's shown nothing.
 
Feeky Magee said:
Giving managers time is overrated as hell. I can list you more managers sacked too late than too early. What has Moyes shown that makes you think he will come good with time?
Click to expand...
How do you know when is the right time to sack Moyes? Would he be already sacked by you? Seems bizarre to me...maybe OK for a team fighting relegation who need that temporary kick up the backside or a team always happy with mid-table where a change won't really make much of a difference but you are MU and fighting for the title or at least a top 4 spot. Unlike the smaller clubs managers for your club are harder to come by as most of the top managers are already in top jobs.

Cal? said:
Did anyone say that? Most people in the Moyes out camp have pointed to him not being upto the job rather than not trying to do the job.
Click to expand...

Yes, the person I quoted. No fire. No presence. Small time mentality. Others have said similar stuff and, because Moyes is not running up and down the line screaming at the 4th official, he lacks passion.
 
I am sure there are cases of a manager not being sacked early enough. I cant think of anyone too obvious right now though.
 
Flandall Ragg said:
I am sure there are cases of a manager not being sacked early enough. I cant think of anyone too obvious right now though.
Click to expand...
Doesn't happen that much these days because managers are sacked quickly whether they're good enough or not. So the positive is that the shit managers get fired on time but the negative is that the odd one good enough too loses his job too easily.
 
Getsme said:
Completely disagree, many on here would have settled for fourth this season, from champions to fourth isn't being unreasonable or spoilt.


This is very true, everyone knew when Sir Alex left that it was going to be tough, very tough. However that's why it was vitally important that we got the right man in, a man with vast experience of working with the best players, a man who has won everything there is to win, a man who can put his own stamp on the team. We got Moyes.


The team does need rebuilding, however I believe that Fergie thought he left the team in a good place, good young players combined with experienced ones with what looks like a heathy bank account, can we really go from Champs to chumps in the space of six months?


How much time is to much time?
The truth is, we are seeing no improvement, in fact I think it's fair to say we are going backwards, we have never finished outside the top 3 in the PL, we are currently 7th behind Everton, Liverpool and Spurs with Newcastle and Southhamton close on our tails. That's not what's worrying me though, it's the direction he seems to be taking us, one dimensional predictable football. If he gave even the smallest glimmer of improvement or implemented his own style then I'm sure the criticism would stop, but he's shown nothing.
Click to expand...

Do you put any responsibility of you being off the pace this season down to the players or is all Moyes fault? I think you're asking Moyes to simply pick up where Ferguson left off and that was always going to be a tough ask. Players have to get to know the new manager and it seems that it's proving difficult to pull out the same effort that they gave for Ferguson.

A couple of seasons is what it will take IMO to get his own players in....I also think not having RvP and Rooney for so many games has cost you dearly.
 
.Rossi said:
In regards style of play, I've noticed people talking about Fergie's lean years and how we weren't that great under a transition period

Have a look at this and tell me we play anywhere close to this sorta stuff....Despite being under transition.

Not having a go, just curious as to how you tell me different. We're not going to their place and play this sorta stuff next week
Click to expand...

While that video is always a joy to watch, it was nine years ago! I don't think anyone suggested we play the same football we did in 2005. Which, for large parts of the season, was pretty fecking abysmal. We ended up with 58 league goals scored that season...

The last time we played truly great stuff was between 2006-2008. Since then it's never been the same though never nearly as bad as this season.
 
There's no way he will get sacked, even if we finish 7th. Fergie and the board are behind him, and will convince the Glazers to stick with him for a few years at least.
 
I had taken the stance that he must go if we fail to qualify for the CL.

I have recently changed my mind. I want him to have next season as well and maybe the one after.

Now that Vidic and probably a few other senior players will be gone I want to see if he can put his own stamp onto the club.
 
.Rossi said:
In regards style of play, I've noticed people talking about Fergie's lean years and how we weren't that great under a transition period

Have a look at this and tell me we play anywhere close to this sorta stuff....Despite being under transition.

Not having a go, just curious as to how you tell me different. We're not going to their place and play this sorta stuff next week
Click to expand...

The Ronaldo celebration was ace.
 
Flandall Ragg said:
I had taken the stance that he must go if we fail to qualify for the CL.

I have recently changed my mind. I want him to have next season as well and maybe the one after.

Now that Vidic and probably a few other senior players will be gone I want to see if he can put his own stamp onto the club.
Click to expand...

Yep, i've changed my position on this as well. He should be given at least two years and rated on how he rebuilds the team and whether we improve next year.
 
Marching said:
Do you put any responsibility of you being off the pace this season down to the players or is all Moyes fault? I think you're asking Moyes to simply pick up where Ferguson left off and that was always going to be a tough ask. Players have to get to know the new manager and it seems that it's proving difficult to pull out the same effort that they gave for Ferguson.

A couple of seasons is what it will take IMO to get his own players in....I also think not having RvP and Rooney for so many games has cost you dearly.
Click to expand...

Excuses Excuses Excuses

Take a look at teams around us, their manager doesn't need their own player to perform at an acceptable level.

Mourinho didn't need his own team when he won Chelsea their first trophy since Roman, Neither does Pep need 5 years for his treble, Martinez only need 1 transfer window to make Everton click, Even to the lesser extent Avram Grant, Ancelotti, and the rest don't need their own players, they work with what they have. I've been repeating this for eternety : Moyes do not need to win anything with this lot, just merely 4th. How hard is that with a team of champions? Name me a manager that only succeeds after having his own team in 5 years? SAF was successful in his 2nd year, on his 5 years he's on a journey of decades of domination. You're saying it'll take Moyes 5 years and a squad of his own just to get 4th?

Remember Rafa Benitez at Inter? We all laugh at his ineptitude and how he dismantle Mourinho's Inter in just a short space. Does the majority here says he needs time? Does the majority here bought the excuse of Inter team's past it? As I recall we simply says that FSW is simply found out for what he really is.

All this Judge Moyes when he has his own player is absurd, at this going rate, by the time he'll have him own players we'll be a proper midtable side.
 
Flandall Ragg said:
It really isnt but is a typical attitude of the modern football fan
Click to expand...
Bayern Munich have had 4 managers in 6 years, and they pretty much upgraded each time. Do you think they regret not giving Klinsmann time? Van Gaal was someone with a CV infinitely better than Moyes, do you think they regret not giving him more time?
 
Marching said:
Do you put any responsibility of you being off the pace this season down to the players or is all Moyes fault? I think you're asking Moyes to simply pick up where Ferguson left off and that was always going to be a tough ask. Players have to get to know the new manager and it seems that it's proving difficult to pull out the same effort that they gave for Ferguson.

A couple of seasons is what it will take IMO to get his own players in....I also think not having RvP and Rooney for so many games has cost you dearly.
Click to expand...

While the players have to take responsibility it's down to the manager to get the best out of them be it via tactics, training, building confidence, team selection etc. Saying that I think certain players have got an easy ride this season with the usual suspects being the scapegoats, if it becomes public that certain players weren't giving their all to undermine the manager then I would lose all my respect for them.

To be honest I never wanted Moyes to pick up where Fergie left off, I wanted him to make it his United, for him to implement his own style and vision into the team. When he got the job I said that it was vitally important that he didn't become a diluted version of Fergie, which is why I thought he got rid off and brought in his own staff.
I agree that it will take a couple of seasons, but we have 14 or 15 games left this season, he's had two transfer windows and we have yet to see a direction in which he plans to bring us. I've said this many times, if we saw his vision, or at the very least have an inkling of what he plans to do, I believe he would have our full backing.
I agree 100% about RVP and Rooney, but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to our current position or style of play. We should still be beating the likes of Stoke, Sunderland, WBA with the squad we have, and we should most certainly be playing better football.
 
Results will determine if Dave lasts the season. If our results continue the 2014 trend then he'll be gone, there is no defense for it. Having said that, with Mata, Rooney and RVP returning, our form should pick up. So in my mind he'll be here till Christmas 2014, if we're still playing dross football and struggling with over 100m investment into the squad, then I think the Glazers will lose patience no matter if the board disagree.
 
RedSky At Night said:
Results will determine if Dave lasts the season. If our results continue the 2014 trend then he'll be gone, there is no defense for it. Having said that, with Mata, Rooney and RVP returning, our form should pick up. So in my mind he'll be here till Christmas 2014, if we're still playing dross football and struggling with over 100m investment into the squad, then I think the Glazers will lose patience no matter if the board disagree.
Click to expand...

What i feared is that we havr too much firepower it will drag us to 4th while masking the fundamental problem of being tactically inept.

With mata rooney rvp and new signing, we will probably make it to 4th or 3rd if we're on fire and a bit lucky with injury, but winning and keep on winning or at least challenging year after year is a different story. If this is what we aspire in the long run, by all means we should just throw hundreds of millions into the team.

But then again, if we're throwing millions, might as well get a ready manager ala mourinho or pep, at least they get results faster. Who cares if they only stick for a couple of season, we'll simply hire the next best manager available when they leave.

There's no shame in not having a 20+ years manager
 
Feeky Magee said:
Bayern Munich have had 4 managers in 6 years, and they pretty much upgraded each time. Do you think they regret not giving Klinsmann time? Van Gaal was someone with a CV infinitely better than Moyes, do you think they regret not giving him more time?
Click to expand...
Heynckes resigned. Van Gaal won the league in his first season and had a poor 2nd season. I cant ever agree he deserved the sack even though they went onto great things. Maybe Van Gaal could have done the same?


Its also a very different situation to what we find ourselves in now
 
I think what irks me most and those in Moyes out camp is that 7 months deep and there's still no indication of a greater plan or direction he wants us to go into other than play it wide, get to the byline, cross and let's cross our fingers. To me that's the biggest issue. It's one thing to lose matches, but when you lose those games and even the ones you win with no sense of style, direction etc. then there's a problem. A huge one at that.
 
I'm ok with him going in December I think. Would be nice if he got two more summers to finish the job, but the most important thing is that he gets the coming transfer window. There's massive overhaul to be made.
 
Sky1981 said:
What i feared is that we havr too much firepower it will drag us to 4th while masking the fundamental problem of being tactically inept.

With mata rooney rvp and new signing, we will probably make it to 4th or 3rd if we're on fire and a bit lucky with injury, but winning and keep on winning or at least challenging year after year is a different story. If this is what we aspire in the long run, by all means we should just throw hundreds of millions into the team.

But then again, if we're throwing millions, might as well get a ready manager ala mourinho or pep, at least they get results faster. Who cares if they only stick for a couple of season, we'll simply hire the next best manager available when they leave.

There's no shame in not having a 20+ years manager
Click to expand...

Well we were all to happy to sack managers while Matt Busby recovered. Frank O'Farrell (the man that eventually replaced Busby) only managed us for 81 games, 18 months in charge. It's true that Uniteds most successful seasons were with long standing managers, but lets also not forget that it took the club several attempts to find the next Busby in Ferguson. People bang on about Uniteds tradition, but conveniently ignore our actual club history.

It'd be ironic if history repeats itself and Moyes is sacked in December. Tommy Docherty got 4 and half years after O'Farrell though!
 
Sky1981 said:
Here's a question to all Moyes lovers out there :


What do you think the best scenario if we persist with Moyes? What do you think his ceiling is?
Click to expand...
A new young and vibrant Manchester Utd. But could take 2 years with many highs and lows along the way :)

If it works out you can feck off
 
B20 said:
I'm ok with him going in December I think. Would be nice if he got two more summers to finish the job, but the most important thing is that he gets the coming transfer window. There's massive overhaul to be made.
Click to expand...
:lol: Enjoy your time in the sun, man.
 
Getsme said:
And if it doesn't?
Click to expand...
Then we'll all agree that we gave him the time and he wasn't the right man.

Who here has honestly given the impression they love the man?
Who here has said he is the definitely the man for the job?
Who here has said he will guarantee us success?
Who here has said he should stay for the duration of his contract if the football stays as it is now?
Who here has said the football is getting better already?
Who here has even hinted that they are happy with the football being played at the moment?

We're supporting the club, not David Moyes. The club want us to give him time, we want to give him time too.
 
Flandall Ragg said:
We get a new manager and life goes on
Click to expand...
Do we also give that manager another £150 million* to spend.

Moyes has yet to show any signs of improvement, he's hiding behind excuses and using certain circumstances to his benefit.
Sometimes the manager doesn't fit the club, I believe this is one of those cases.
If Moyes gave us something to hang onto then I'd back him 100%, but he hasn't, he's gave us nothing but one dimensional predictable football. Maybe there is things going on behind closed doors, maybe he has got a master plan, but if he can't get our current squad winning then why should we trust him with another 100 million?

* If we believe when he says there are plenty more Mata type players to come.
 
Getsme said:
Do we also give that manager another £150 million* to spend.

Moyes has yet to show any signs of improvement, he's hiding behind excuses and using certain circumstances to his benefit.
Sometimes the manager doesn't fit the club, I believe this is one of those cases.
If Moyes gave us something to hang onto then I'd back him 100%, but he hasn't, he's gave us nothing but one dimensional predictable football. Maybe there is things going on behind closed doors, maybe he has got a master plan, but if he can't get our current squad winning then why should we trust him with another 100 million?

* If we believe when he says there are plenty more Mata type players to come.
Click to expand...

Everything else notwithstanding there is no reason to fear he'll pull a King Kenny and splash an obscene amount of cash on useless players. His targets seem to be players most here would welcome. If he can't cut it and gets the boot in December, say, his successor will have some very good players to work with. A complete overhaul should not be necessary.
 
Even if I'm inclined to wanting Moyes out, I'd be OK with him being trusted with transfer funds so long as he goes after the right players - i.e. more Matas and not spending £100million on Everton players and Andros fcuking Townsend.
 
Getsme said:
Do we also give that manager another £150 million* to spend.

Moyes has yet to show any signs of improvement, he's hiding behind excuses and using certain circumstances to his benefit.
Sometimes the manager doesn't fit the club, I believe this is one of those cases.
If Moyes gave us something to hang onto then I'd back him 100%, but he hasn't, he's gave us nothing but one dimensional predictable football. Maybe there is things going on behind closed doors, maybe he has got a master plan, but if he can't get our current squad winning then why should we trust him with another 100 million?

* If we believe when he says there are plenty more Mata type players to come.
Click to expand...
If the kind of players that will be coming in are of the quality of Mata, i dont care if he's given 150 million or 500. Let the money men worry about that. If they want to back him financially to get top class players, whats the issue? I'd only have an issue if the money was spent on dross, as well as our performances continue to deteriorate.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Everything else notwithstanding there is no reason to fear he'll pull a King Kenny and splash an obscene amount of cash on useless players. His targets seem to be players most here would welcome. If he can't cut it and gets the boot in December, say, his successor will have some very good players to work with. A complete overhaul should not be necessary.
Click to expand...
Moyes has very good players to work with in fairness.
If the rumours of the type of players we are after is true then yeah, possibly. However, Mourinho got rid of Mata, who's to say a new manager wouldn't want to change the team again.
It's a big risk the club is taking by giving Moyes our entire transfer fund.
 
Getsme said:
Moyes has very good players to work with in fairness.
If the rumours of the type of players we are after is true then yeah, possibly. However, Mourinho got rid of Mata, who's to say a new manager wouldn't want to change the team again.
Click to expand...
If the new manager wants to change the team again, what you're saying will still be applicable: "XYZ has very good players to work with in fairness". Its only if he fills the team with shite that it would make the job of the following manager tougher.
 
MDFC Manager said:
If the kind of players that will be coming in are of the quality of Mata, i dont care if he's given 150 million or 500. Let the money men worry about that. If they want to back him financially to get top class players, whats the issue? I'd only have an issue if the money was spent on dross, as well as our performances continue to deteriorate.
Click to expand...
That's the point I'm making, it's a gamble. If there's any doubt in the boards heads that he's not the man for the job, why give him the money, likewise if we don't let him buy the players he wants, then we aren't supporting him.
If he went after Townsend, and offered 20-30 million, then the board should support that.
The club have to back him 100% or sack him.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Everything else notwithstanding there is no reason to fear he'll pull a King Kenny and splash an obscene amount of cash on useless players. His targets seem to be players most here would welcome. If he can't cut it and gets the boot in December, say, his successor will have some very good players to work with. A complete overhaul should not be necessary.
Click to expand...
Fellaini and Baines were on his shopping list and he managed to buy one of them. He talks big but we're yet to see if more Matas or more Fellainis arrive. It's a concern.

I mean, Dalglish signed Suárez. The rest of his purchases were, well...
 
People also need to consider the chances of us getting in someone really good which are during a season usually very slim. If we can get a good manager in the summer it might be worth considering Moyes position if things haven't improved but not during a season where there is no really viable replacement option in sight.
 
LonelyFire said:
"Best defender i ever worked with..." to letting him go on a free months later.

Hes going to give the arm band to Rooney isn't he. fcuking hell.
Click to expand...

Or maybe Vidic wants to leave and couldn't be persuaded to stay. It's not like it's the first time there have been noises about him leaving.

But too good an opportunity not to have a dig at Moyes I suppose.
 
Getsme said:
Moyes has very good players to work with in fairness.
If the rumours of the type of players we are after is true then yeah, possibly. However, Mourinho got rid of Mata, who's to say a new manager wouldn't want to change the team again.
It's a big risk the club is taking by giving Moyes our entire transfer fund.
Click to expand...

You might as well say it was a big risk giving him the job in the first place, then. Which it was. But there you go - it was a risk the club deemed worth taking. You can't have a manager in charge whom you don't trust with transfers. Either he is the manager all the way - or he gets the boot. It really is that simple. I suspect the latter isn't a terrible prospect for you - which is fair enough. For me he should get the next window to strengthen as he sees fit. After that he must start to deliver.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.