Or if he builds the team around his vision, buys his second or third choice targets and disjoints the team. As I said in the above post it's a gamble, a big one at that. To me, Moyes has shown nothing to suggest that he deserves the money. I hope he proves me wrong though, but the signs aren't good.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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I agree with that sentiment.
He also had Fabregas, Herrera, De Rossi, Coentrao and if rumours are to be believed, Bale & Khedira too. Current targets are apparently Vidal, Shaw, Reus, Koke etc. Of course none of them happened (or are yet to happen) for one reason or the other and you are right that it amounts to big talk. But the good thing is that barring Khedira, all the other targets seem to be of sufficient quality.
Neither Fellaini nor Baines are useless players, though. King Kenny style would be more the likes of Carroll and Downing at exorbitant prices.
It's comments like that which grinds me. Moyes really can't win at all sometimes with some of you.
Have you considered the possibility that Vidic just wants to move on to have a new challenge?
A vast majority of his targets thus far are IMO of good quality. The one thing that concerns me the least is what he will end up doing in the transfer market. He hasnt done badly there, not yet anyway. Yes we overpaid for Fellaini but that's not Moyes's problem.
I'm sorry but Downing was precisely what Fellaini was: a very useful player for mid-table sides. And we paid an absolutely exorbitant price for him.
Like I said, we'll see. It's all well and good saying his targets are Vidal and Reus and whatnot but of his actual signings, one is of world-class quality while the other wouldn't get into the squad of any of Europe's top clubs. We'll see what direction we go in the summer.
It was, and although he wasn't my first choice I backed him 100% until the Stoke game. Sometime risks pay off sometimes they don't, on this occasion it's looking like it's failed.
I agree 100%, but would you throw good money after bad? That's how I see it. However if the club back him then I'll accept it and assume there is a plan in place that we don't know about.
A new young and vibrant Manchester Utd. But could take 2 years with many highs and lows along the way
If it works out you can feck off
Wanna bet our account?
Well, he could have bought a load of dross in January right? He and the club could have panicked and bought 3-4 very average players as a potential quick fix. But he didnt. Concern over what he might do in the future is valid but IMO it shouldnt be a huge concern.
Well, that's where our opinions differ, then. I think Fellaini can become a useful player for us - at the highest level. He is not in Downing's category. But like you say yourself - we'll see. I believe Moyes wanted to sign a top class allround midfielder AND Fellaini last summer. If he had pulled this off people's views on Fellaini would have been very different, I think. He was never meant to play a pivotal role for us, nor intended as the one big signing of the window.
I dont bet, its against my religion
His rumoured targets are off good quality, but what if he can't get them? Will he panic, will he accept his third or fourth choice?
In fairness to him his transfer record is impressive, but he's never done it on quite this scale before.
I get that - sure. And I have no problems seeing that Moyes doesn't look like much at the moment. But it all comes down to whether one has lost faith in him or not, doesn't it? The question you ask makes no sense to me - because I still believe he can turn this around. And if he can't - if it becomes evident he can't in the course of the next season, after he's having made the necessary purchases - well, then I'll gladly see the back of him.
That's true. He's gotta get it right in the summer though. Either by way of good recruitment or getting the current lot to start playing for him. If he does neither, he'll be gone by Christmas I think. There is very little scope of the board letting him preside over 2 consecutive failed champions league qualifications.
Good fair post.
I don't find every game torture though. I still enjoy going to OT I just don't expect us to win anymore, even against relegation fodder. I'd really like to see a better game plan than spread the ball wide, get to the byline and whip in a hopeful cross though. It doesn't need brand new shiny players for the manager to come up with something better than that. The lads here now aren't incompetent footballers they're just being asked to play an uninspiring brand of football. The Welbeck sub baffled me too. We effectively took Rooney out of a dangerous position into an innocuous one because he couldn't even play the Hollywood balls he likes to play from midfield in that wind so it almost voided him completely, whilst welbeck was ineffective. Fletcher in midfield and leave Rooney where he is was clearly the way to go.
Again, the point I'm trying to make is that it's a massive gamble. If the board trust him then they have to back him, if there going to give him 100-150 million to spend them they have to let him see it through. Why give him that amount of money and only 6 months to turn it around? It takes time for a team to gel, especially if there is 4 or 5 new first team players.
If, however there's even the slightest doubt in their head then they have to sack him.
The overarching issue here is that Fergie is basically running Manchester United. If you look at the current board members on the official site, they are either all Glazers or brand new non football people who deal with financial issues (Woodward, Bollingbroke etc). Fergie is not going to reverse his decision on Moyes and will probably continue backing him for years. The Glazers and Woodwards of the world don't know any better and seem to have outsourced the football decisions to Fergie and Sir Bobby, so nothing is likely to change unless the Glazers step in, which given their hands off approach thus far, seems unlikely.
I'd love to disagree with you here, but I feel you're spot on. The only way I see Moyes losing his job is it's it's finincial. Fergie and Bobby will back their original decision to the death, I do trust Fergie, but football has moved on and his choice of managers previously have all but failed in their roles.
Well, this is how I see it: He gets a season under his belt. He identifies certain problems, gets rid of certain players, buys the reinforcements he feels are necessary. When this is done he should be ready to mount a proper challenge. The team isn't loaded with useless players - we're not talking about replacing the entire team here. A central midfielder, a left back, maybe a CB. Let's say we're looking at this starting XI in August:
De Gea
Rafael - Top Class CB - Evans - New Quality LB
Carrick - Vidal
Januzaj - Rooney - Mata
Van Persie
If we're down the table, having played shite football, in December with that as our starting XI it is evident Moyes is doing something very wrong. And he should be let go. And his successor will inherit a bloody decent team to work with.Rafael - Top Class CB - Evans - New Quality LB
Carrick - Vidal
Januzaj - Rooney - Mata
Van Persie
I would like to know what would happen if we lose a few more games let say around 3-4 within the next six weeks. Would Moyes still be invincible or could he be sacked? i would like for him to go now!
By the sounds of it you would like us to lose those games too, to push him over the line
This is the feeling Im getting from a lot
If I had my way I would have liked him to have already been replaced. What I am wondering is what would it take for Ferguson + Glazers to come to a realization that a big mistake was made and that plan B must take into effect..
I personally wonder at what point the "Every one of us will stand by David Moyes" chant will die down - if they will. I've not joined in with it once to be honset - merely out of principal/not being a hypocrite... I just clap my hands so I can at least contribute to the noise.
The whole Vidic leaving thing 'could' work in Moyes favour.
I think it was invelitable that some of the senior players, who have by and large only played under Fergie or been at United long enough to only know one man and his direction of football. Such a change of manager is going to seem so alien to them, that if they are in thier last year of contract then why not think about a change. If they are struggling to motivate themselves under Moyes, and you can totall understand why, then it's probably for the best that they leave - i'm looking at Vidic and Rio here.
Other players who are young enough to accept the challenge of a change of direction under Moyes, shoud stay and fight whilst they are under contract - Evans, Smalling, Fletcher etc. And thus far, there is nothing to suggest that they aren't up for the challenge.
I think United changing the manager after such a long and successful era is such a unique situation, that I can't remember another club facing such a challenge. I think Moyes reached a ceiling with Everton, and you would have to say since he has gone, everything seems to have gone right for Everton in his absence. The young players Moyes nurtured have come to the fore this season, they managed to aquire 2 players in Barry and Lukaku, who have played amazing well this season (Barry would walk into our 1st 11 and immediately improve us), and it has improved their first team no ends. Aside from the recent leg break, I would say Everton are playing above expectations and next season will be a bigger test for them. What I was initially trying to get at was that for so many players at United, after years of Fergie, there wouldn't have been many coaches/managers who could have come in and kept them all happy, where as at Everton a manager who came in with new belief, new methods and given where they expect to finish each season, it must be easier to get them motivated etc. If we had have got Mourinho, for example, I still think there would have been much to change and there is nothing to say the likes of Vidic and Rio would have been right for him.
Anderson, Nani, Fabio - players we all seem to think are unfancied by Moyes have been shipped out, loaned etc and maybe because they too think a change is needed, again, not really Moyes fault. If a proved winner of a manager had come in, I very much think they would have been shown the door anyway.
This squad needed a clear out, it was plain to see. For many of us we are getting out wish, but it's going to be a very bumpy and very, very expensive road. Moyes, for me, seems to have a handle on who he wants to get in, and so far the signs are promising in that department. A more competent CEO would have seen us possibly over spend, but what a selection of players we could have had...maybe.
Moyes has had a shocker thus far, nothing short of abysamal. But can it get any worse? Seriously? The players he has at his disposal, and now back fit, I think we are about to turn a corner.
Rooney - has played under Moyes, knows the man, and seems happy enough with him to possibly commit his last few playing years to him.
RVP - most likely the key player who needs to be convinced. Playing under Arsene and Fergie for most of his career, there wouldn't have been many managers he could motivate himself for. Still under contract and getting older so doubt he will leave.
Mata - Why would he have joined if he didn't see something/get convinced?
Kagawa - Clearly has all the tools and I guess because he has been so gash since he joined, he needs a platform to prove a point. If not, will be sold I guess.
Fletcher, Evans, Smalling, Jone, Young, Valencia, Welbeck, Chicarito, Cleverley - still under contract for a few years, all with something to play and fight for and all seem to be getting enough games to show they want to play for united. They need to find a way to play under Moyes.
The list goes on, but I think this summer could well be the making of a united we have all been after the last few years.
I'm not Moyes biggest fan, and after the last result I was quite vocal about how useless I thought he was - I was angry. Given the targets he has been chasing so far, I think we could all agree on something, that if he does leave next year, should the club continue to spend the way it has been whoever comes in will have a brilliant squad.
Thank you Vidic for some truly amazing years. Will always be one of my favourite players and I'm blessed to have supported United during the brilliant years in which he featured, but it's time to move on. I think injuries are getting on top of him and he has made up his mind.
Come on Moyes.
I think it was invelitable that some of the senior players, who have by and large only played under Fergie or been at United long enough to only know one man and his direction of football. Such a change of manager is going to seem so alien to them, that if they are in thier last year of contract then why not think about a change. If they are struggling to motivate themselves under Moyes, and you can totall understand why, then it's probably for the best that they leave - i'm looking at Vidic and Rio here.
Other players who are young enough to accept the challenge of a change of direction under Moyes, shoud stay and fight whilst they are under contract - Evans, Smalling, Fletcher etc. And thus far, there is nothing to suggest that they aren't up for the challenge.
I think United changing the manager after such a long and successful era is such a unique situation, that I can't remember another club facing such a challenge. I think Moyes reached a ceiling with Everton, and you would have to say since he has gone, everything seems to have gone right for Everton in his absence. The young players Moyes nurtured have come to the fore this season, they managed to aquire 2 players in Barry and Lukaku, who have played amazing well this season (Barry would walk into our 1st 11 and immediately improve us), and it has improved their first team no ends. Aside from the recent leg break, I would say Everton are playing above expectations and next season will be a bigger test for them. What I was initially trying to get at was that for so many players at United, after years of Fergie, there wouldn't have been many coaches/managers who could have come in and kept them all happy, where as at Everton a manager who came in with new belief, new methods and given where they expect to finish each season, it must be easier to get them motivated etc. If we had have got Mourinho, for example, I still think there would have been much to change and there is nothing to say the likes of Vidic and Rio would have been right for him.
Anderson, Nani, Fabio - players we all seem to think are unfancied by Moyes have been shipped out, loaned etc and maybe because they too think a change is needed, again, not really Moyes fault. If a proved winner of a manager had come in, I very much think they would have been shown the door anyway.
This squad needed a clear out, it was plain to see. For many of us we are getting out wish, but it's going to be a very bumpy and very, very expensive road. Moyes, for me, seems to have a handle on who he wants to get in, and so far the signs are promising in that department. A more competent CEO would have seen us possibly over spend, but what a selection of players we could have had...maybe.
Moyes has had a shocker thus far, nothing short of abysamal. But can it get any worse? Seriously? The players he has at his disposal, and now back fit, I think we are about to turn a corner.
Rooney - has played under Moyes, knows the man, and seems happy enough with him to possibly commit his last few playing years to him.
RVP - most likely the key player who needs to be convinced. Playing under Arsene and Fergie for most of his career, there wouldn't have been many managers he could motivate himself for. Still under contract and getting older so doubt he will leave.
Mata - Why would he have joined if he didn't see something/get convinced?
Kagawa - Clearly has all the tools and I guess because he has been so gash since he joined, he needs a platform to prove a point. If not, will be sold I guess.
Fletcher, Evans, Smalling, Jone, Young, Valencia, Welbeck, Chicarito, Cleverley - still under contract for a few years, all with something to play and fight for and all seem to be getting enough games to show they want to play for united. They need to find a way to play under Moyes.
The list goes on, but I think this summer could well be the making of a united we have all been after the last few years.
I'm not Moyes biggest fan, and after the last result I was quite vocal about how useless I thought he was - I was angry. Given the targets he has been chasing so far, I think we could all agree on something, that if he does leave next year, should the club continue to spend the way it has been whoever comes in will have a brilliant squad.
Thank you Vidic for some truly amazing years. Will always be one of my favourite players and I'm blessed to have supported United during the brilliant years in which he featured, but it's time to move on. I think injuries are getting on top of him and he has made up his mind.
Come on Moyes.
The Glazers are hands off and have outsourced the football decisions to the person who selected Moyes; who by the way is notorious in his past criticisms of managers getting sacked too soon (much less the ones he has hand picked). The only way Moyes might go is if the Glazers step in - but that would probably involve Fergie leaving the board, as he is not likely to tolerate a public rebuke of the owners undoing a football decision he made only months ago. Long story short, Moyes isn't going anywhere.
I understand, but what would be the tilting point, that is my question?
Loss in club valuation, significant dip in profits, reduction in brand value etc. At that point, the Glazers would probably step in (imo). But still they would have to weigh the cost/benefit since it may result in Fergie leaving the board.
Fergie is stubborn, and will ensure Moyes gets plenty of time, but he can be ruthless in the interests of the club :
Stam and RVN are examples of that, there are others.
SAF will give Moyes more chances to turn it round, more than most would, but he is not stupid, and will be
ruthless when he thinks he has had enough chances.
This thread should be closed!
Why, has he gone?
Why, has he been sacked yet?
Moyes filling out the team sheet:
Rooney
Valencia
Young
Evra
The rest he decides by picking a name out of one hat and a position out of another to decide who will play and where.
i hope you are right..
Saf doesn't own the club. Ultimately the Glazers won't mind telling Saf where to go if they make up their mind about Moyes.
We have all that bar vidal. Why are we playing far from well?
Granted evra is shit, but do u think we're 1 cm away from great football with moyes at the helm?
Firstly, you missed the new CB and LB.
Even then, With a change in how we play? Yes, a top CM and a change towards a more continental style (for the want of a better word) and we'd play much better.
Mata has just arrived, RVP has been out for a fair while, the Rooney/RVP combo is yet to click - and our defense has never settled. Most importantly, though, we clearly lack a truly top class CM. So, yeah, I do believe these changes will make a huge difference.
...and we do not have a top class CB back there at the moment. We have some candidates for that part, but none of them have taken the step up. You admit that Evra is shit too. Which he isn't, to be fair, but he isn't a top class fullback anymore. So adding one of those will clearly be a massive improvement.
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