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Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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We're aren't allowed to criticise the poster, only the post, new Forum rules.
The underperforming players under Moyes are more than half the team. They'd been much better than this season, though.
So if this season is a free pass for the new manager, shouldn't that applied for players as well?
So if this season is a free pass for the new manager, shouldn't that applied for players as well?
In that one natural position, Mata is far more productive than all of them. Additionally he can play 2 other positions with World Class effect, which none in our squad can.
I would still agree with you that Mata was more of a want than need however, that's not what you said initially. You said Mata was a panic buy, which is IMO far off the mark.
He is criticising the posts there.
What agenda?My opinion that Mata wouldn't have been signed had we been comfortably placed in the top four suits my agenda? Okay...
It's a more than reasonable point.
How about criticising every post they make? Is that ok? Only, when the cap fits...
Everton are the one team that can be compared to us in the 'changing managers' dispute.
Martinez has changed their style and mentality very quickly, in fact some would say before the season started. Yes, the United and Everton jobs are completely different but it brings up the same old question, how much time does Moyes need?
You said one should always give manager time like players, I pointed out that players that are not good enough are not given time. Neither should managers who aren't good enough,
Any buys will be a risk, you can chuck loads of money at things and some of them won't work. Look at Veron, all that money and he didn't settle. Yet Ole was a big hit as is Hernandez, before this season. Fans always judge players by how much they cost, but sometimes the unknown bargain players are the ones who become legends. Denis Irwin cost peanuts as did Peter Schmeichel.
Well no, it's not, as that would need you to listen to reason, which you've quite amicably demonstrated you cannot. You've yet to properly explain why he's a panic buy other than saying in a roundabout way that he's improving the squad (and trying to save the season).
My opinion that Mata wouldn't have been signed had we been comfortably placed in the top four suits my agenda? Okay...
It's a more than reasonable point.
I suppose its easier to change styles when there isnt an overbearing burden of expectations to get instant match results.
Sure thing, Tomalonge, sure thing...
If we were in the Top 4 there is no way in hell Jose would have sold him to us.
My opinion that Mata wouldn't have been signed had we been comfortably placed in the top four suits my agenda? Okay...
It's a more than reasonable point.
That's true but I still fail to see us breaking our transfer record for an attacking midfielder had we been in that position anyway.
I'm just saying we have to be nice to each other, even if we disagree with everything being posted.
There's a lot of nonsense on every topic though. Do you actually expect no overreaction given the season were having? It's natural. I bet it happens at the grounds every game as well. Because football is something people get emotional about.
1. It has been drastically worse. You're just choosing to ignore it. It's there in the number of chances we score and more importantly, the number of of matched we win that prove it, plus, you know the stuff we see with our eyes. And we face injury crises' every season. It's a tired excuse. It can have an impact but it can't make players incapable of stringing passes together.
2. Yes three years it has been around so it shouldn't change. Everyone should be perfectly okay with it continuing. No wait people should expect it to get a hell of a lot worse. Lovely logic.
3. Umm yes you did. You said rectify. No one has expected him to rectify anything. They've expected progress towards rectification which you'd expect from a good manager. There's been sign if progress in this regard at all. There's been regression rather than rectification.
And agin this best manager if all time thing pops up. Just because fergie was getting an aspect very wrong doesn't mean successor should go and make it worse rather than improve it.
Do you mean Eric, if yes he was a bargain as well, more fool Leeds. The thing is everyone wants us to splash 30-40m on just one player from a foreign league, presuming he will settle here. Yet if a players who plays in the PL already is mentioned, they aren't good enough.Our best player ever only cost a small amount.
Mata was a panic signing now! Some people will hang on to anything to bash Moyes and the club.
The only major criticism I have from Moyes is the way he has handled Zaha. The performance and results have been terrible but I think it makes sense for him to be given the summer to show what he can do. If by Christmas we're still crap then we could look at sacking him.
The only major criticism I have from Moyes is the way he has handled Zaha. The performance and results have been terrible but I think it makes sense for him to be given the summer to show what he can do. If by Christmas we're still crap then we could look at sacking him.
The reaction on here has been amazing and they say women are hysterical. Maybe some folks need a good slap round the chops.
No, I meant Ronaldo...
Anyway, did anyone say Mata isn't good enough? What makes you say that bolded part?
I wasn't using my opinion that Mata was a panic buy to bash Moyes. I'm merely of the opinion we would not have broke our transfer fee for him had we been comfortably placed in the top four, if you don't believe that to be a reasonable point then I don't know... Any of my Moyes criticism has been warranted I believe, I've been fair to the man. I wanted him here in the first place.
I agree with that.
But if Moyes isn't going to be the man to bring us forward I'd rather the new manager have the money over Moyes (if that makes sense)
I still think Moyes will be given the cash to build a team, I just hope he doesn't waste it on 'Fellaini' type players.
As someone said I don't think we would have bought Mata if we were in the Top 4 and as I said Jose wouldn't have sold him to us if we were. He wasn't a panic buy as he gave the fans a boost, pity some in the team aren't the same.
Indeed, but you could counter argue that it should be easier when you're working with a better calibre of player. However it's a fair point, but I'd have liked to see a positive change by now, even if it's a small one.
Fellaini was a panic signing, Mata wasn't.
Had we been in the top 4 and Mata suddenly became available we would have still gone for him because he's fantastic. Whether Mourinho would have still sold him is a different argument entirely.
I think people only have an issue with you calling it a panic buy. It may not have been a necessary buy but it was far from a panic buy. I'd say overpaying for Fellaini in deadline day is better categorised as a panic buy. If we got some third rate midfielder in January, that would be a panic but Mata wasn't a panic buy.
Why don't you do it then?The reaction on here has been amazing and they say women are hysterical. Maybe some folks need a good slap round the chops.
I think it's been alright. Some light hearted stuff, some emotional overreaction but mostly reasonable reactions. It's not like the football has been okay and people are criticising it left, right and centre. It's been rubbish and theyve criticised it left, right and centre. And not just here. Everyone has been.
Okay, I worded it incorrectly. I still maintain we would not have been interested had we been placed comfortably in the top four.
Nor would he have been available though.
I stand by my opinion that when a player of Mata's calibre becomes available, you just do it.
Well it's all relative, it'd be strange to break the bank for a Cavani or Falcao in the summer if van Persie and Rooney remained.
It depends on whether the player fits in and will cause a positive or disruptive influence. I don't think bayern would go for mata.
The mata signing is pretty much perfect for us. Good age, good character and the kind of player need.
That's different in my opinion. Mata can play in all three positions behind the striker.
Can you honestly say we don't need an improvement on the wings or in creativity? His assists are worth the 37.1m on it's own, let alone the fact he can go forward and score too.
It's hard to tell if he has done anything to alienate the senior players, though - or if these players (we don't know who they are - but the reputable Andy Mitten has suggested there is indeed a problem here) have reacted poorly to having a new man in charge.
And then Vidic is a tricky one for me. I don't think we can rely on him being our main defensive strength anymore. If we offer him an extension he will have to be used in a backup role in my opinion. We should have a first choice CB partnership - I think that is a key to stabilizing the back four (and it needs stabilizing). Vidic isn't the man to go to in this regard. It may not be the worst idea to let him go at this stage.
Well nobody could be worse than Valencia and Young. And I know he can play in all three positions, would you not think his best position is the centre though? Somewhere we've already failed to facilitate Kagawa. Also, it remains to be seen if Moyes will change styles, I hope he does.
That's a fair opinion mate, at this point time. Let's see though, if Moyes were to eventually change our play style making Mata the hub of it, then perhaps you'd think differently?
Without a doubt, and I'm hoping he does. Time will tell.
Personally, and I understand this won't be the general consensus, I think his best position (for us) is going to be on the left.
I've no idea where we'll see the best of him here, his best performances I saw him play were centrally. And I would've thought that's where we'd want to facilitate our record transfer.
We have to take Mata's situation at Chelsea into consideration too. He was very much unsettled. SAF and Maureen are mates, a deal could be made, and Mata is a top quality player. I don't think it's outlandish to suggest we would have bought him even if we had been in the top four. Mata is versatile. He can play across that 3 behind the striker. If Moyes is aiming towards a variation on the 4-2-3-1 theme he is a player who can fit into a system featuring both Rooney and Kagawa - in theory. So, I don't think it's obvious at all that he's some sort of panic buy - just a name to appease the raging fans, etc.
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