I think that went out of the window this past summer, wouldnt you say?
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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No, I disagree. The club had a few targets in mind and Fellaini was clearly the back up plan. Moyes knew he could be prised from Everton and I don't think the 4 million pound difference between his release clause and what was paid for him matters to a club the size of United when a player with Premier League experience is concerned.
If only he'd done what Fergie did and pick a consistent lineup...
You can't really compare other managers to Fergie though, he had a way of making crazy things work like nobody else does.
No team ahead of us in the league has rotated anything close to us, infact I'd argue that the City, Chelsea, and Arse have basically known their best team right from the off and stuck to their laurels (barring injuries and a few positions). Moyes on the other hand does not seem to have a notion what his best team is.
Actually I made a thread only a few days after the Moyes' appointment if he should keep the old players or not, and at the time the majority thought that he should. I disagreed because I thought that the old players would have problems working with the new manager (whoever is he) cause he will always be compared with SAF which is a lose-lose situation.
I don't think that Evra, Rio, Giggs and Vidic will be missed that much if Moyes decides to not extend their contracts. From them only Evra has been important this season and even him is out of form and very unreliable in many games. I would be worried more if the mutiny (if really there is such a thing there) is coming from other senior players (like Carrick, Rooney, RVP) and in that case I think that Moyes should go. If it is from the old ones (well the three defenders, I don't think that Giggs would ever do such a thing) and if Moyes decides to get rid of them it would be a good thing IMO and he would get some points in my book for doing so.
Anyway, I don't think that there is such a thing at all.
Nor do any of us, right?
As per my first post this morning. A settled lineup needs a core of 6 or 7 (ideally more) players all in decent form, all remaining free from injury.
I'd say that applies to, at most, 3 players in our squad. So it's no great surprise that moyes has been rotating like crazy.
Granted the midfield is an obvious issue but regarding the changes to the overall line-up, that table doesn't by itself prove anything, as both City and Chelsea are in the top 5, City being second. It also says that Moyes will have problems re-introducing Fellaini because fans are completely against him. That's not true. We all expected him to be much better. But I think most people are wanting to see him in the team because we don't really have much better alternatives. He may not prove a success in a midfield two, but at least he won't be that much worse than Cleverley for instance.
Again, City and Chelsea are also on 0 with regards to unchanged line-ups. So it isn't therefore a main factor. And both those teams have new managers too.
Considering the amount of injuries we've had, its not really a surprise.
So what? it's hardly our job to, is it?
Are we supposed to figure out something the manager at one of the world's great clubs cannot?
Considering that the first offer came for him at around 10th of July and there have been at-least 2 other combined offers for him and Baines, I don't think that it is clear at all. Listening to Moyes and how we behaved in transfer market it was pretty clear that all the time the plan was Fellaini, Baines and another midfielder.
Don't know from where comes the idea that he was backup. He was signed on the last hour, but so was Berbatov. And Ozil. Neither of them were backups.
The summer transfer market was a bigc feck up but considering that the two persons in charge were doing it for the first time, it is something that everyone can forget about. Winter was mch better.
Im still unsure of how this thread differs from the 'Moyes so far' thread.
This thread is like Pogue and Chester valiantly stood atop a hill fending off hordes of bollocks from all sides. Some of the rubbish people are spouting and have been spouting all season is mind numbing.
I think his comment was aimed at the fact we simply have less players than most that are guaranteed XI... Hence, we see more rotation from Moyes, and Pogues idea that it isn't his fault as other teams have a more clear 6 or 7 that make up the XI, whereas he feel's we have closer to 3
You didn't think that was what I meant, surely?
Your post, as you'll see from my quote, was originally not quite that long
Yeah, my bad. Hit "post" prematurely. This new-fangled website has me confused.Your post, as you'll see from my quote, was originally not quite that long
tbh, I don't see any bollocks. I think there are decent points from everyone involved both up and down the hill. Each to their own.
People bemoaning a lack of "style" like our last years under SAF were scintillating. People bemoaning 442. People pretty much blaming Moyes for things that have been a main stay of United for about 5 years. People then having a go at him for not immediately rectifying these deep set problems within half a season. Etc.
Yup felt the same. Rio really is dick sometimes.
This isn't a stick I'd use to beat Moyes with. He's had players constantly injured and nobody seems to want to consistently play well enough to maintain selection.
Agreed with the first point. Rest I think don't really have much merit, they're all issues that Dave could provide a remedy for and therefore are valid criticisms. I don't think anyone ever expected an immediate fix as judged by the majority having pretty realistic expectations at the start of the season. At least 40% of us are also aware that its going to take time to fix, albeit other clubs have done it quicker. So in short, Daves the manager, he needs to take the blame for what has been a disappointing season, but we're aware that the squad needs work and therefore he's given a by for a terrible season. But must do much better next season once he's backed in the summer.
Or maybe Rio clearly knows the club aren't going to sack Moyes any time soon. Seen as he was the unanimous choice of the board, given a 6 year contract and has already been backed to the tune of 65 million quid. He isn't dumb ffs he knows he will be out the door quicker than the manager. That reaction from soapy is ridiculous...calling him a cnut? Get a grip. Who fecking cares if the media jump on it? I'm sure Moyes couldn't give a toss, he's got bigger problems.
To be fair, your being reasonable doesn't equate to everyone else being reasonable. There's been some right nutters on here this season.
I think most of the people complaining about our style/formation/whatever are aware that things weren't much different in any of the last few years. Except the results.
If Moyes wasn't underperforming none of this would really be an issue. He is underperforming though, which means people are looking for positive changes that justify our faith in Moyes. That's why it's not unreasonable for people to criticise Moyes if they feel he could be doing more to fix these longstanding issues, even if SAF didn't do enough to fix them either.
At least they aren't making up fake arguments to counter to try and look good. It's so easy to try and make other people's opinion look absurd by misrepresenting them.
1. No one said we played scintillating football under Sir Alex. But there was room for huge improvement whereas Moyes has made just a hell of a lot worse. So yeah, bemoaning style is right. He's paid to actually make things better (even if it's saf he disappointed in this regard) not turn them far worse.
2. Football this shit hasn't been our mainstay for 5 years. Only last few yeads we've regressed. This season has been on a different level. So, wrong there.
3. Having a go for not rectifying immediately? Bullshit again. People would have been fine if we'd seen 50% improvement /change, maybe even 20%. But we've made none. Instead it's gotten a lot worse.
Quite often then though the things people "feel" Moyes could be doing or should be doing are wildly unreasonable. I'm not even sure the bolded bit is true, given some stuff I've read this season.
Sorry to butt in, but does that not sound like AVB at the Chavs?
I have no doubt that all the players are motivated to play for United, but may be not for Moyes, the same way that the Chav 'old guard' stepped back up when AVB left.
These type of posts confuse me slightly, most on here aren't asking for Moyes to turn us into Bayern Munich over night, far from it. I've read plenty of comments from posters who would settle for top 4 as long as we had an idea of where Moyes is going to take us.
So far (yes it's only been 6 months) he's shown very little in terms of implementing his ideas into the team. The team is lacking direction and we seem to be lost, we are playing one dimensional football and other teams are finding us easy to beat as we have become predictable.
Fans are worried as we seem to be going backwards, talk of unrest in the squad, the team looks to have lost their drive and are massively short of confidence.
It doesn't help his cause that City, Chelsea and Everton, are going well even though they've changed managers, granted they didn't lose a manager like Sir Alex, and in reality in shouldn't be compared, but in the real world it will be.
Moyes will be given time, we all know that, and I don't think there's a poster in here who wouldn't like to see him become a success.
1. Our football has not been drastically worse given the absence of Rooney, RvP and Carrick for long periods.
2. Oh no! Don't exaggerate. We have never ever played the sort of football many people on here yearn for. Our "zombie passing" has been a proud feature of our game for at least three seasons now.
3. Did I say immediately? No. I said half a season. Of course it has got worse since last season. We were awful last season and we had the best manager of all time in charge. This season we don't have him in charge, nor do we have RvP to save us. Also, what's this nifty % improvement metric you're using? It seems useful.
I'm talking about a wide number of posts and opinions I've seen on here all season. You can argue all you want but there has been a lot of nonsense on here.
You mean stood on top of the fence.
This is what I mean though. Of course we've looked shit but we've looked shit for a long while and as you say we've lost SAF on top of that. We've been playing one dimensional football for ages, too, and predicatable. Moyes needs time, like you say and he also needs more signings.
The fundamental problem is that we're regressing rapidly under a new manager. If we were in 3rd or 4th, this thread would be about one 5th in length and none of the other threads discussing potential replacements would exist.
As is generally the case in this sort of debate, reasonable people from one camp will sometimes take attacks on unreasonable opinions from the same camp personally - and from there positions become needlessly entrenched. To me there are some posters who clearly have it in for Moyes and who aren't willing to cut him any slack at all. That has no bearing whatsoever on how I look at posters who are generally skeptical of Moyes. The two categories are completely different.
Droll. What fence? The "I realise we are doing poorly but think the manager should be given more time" fence?
How much time does Moyes need? And how far can he take us? Should we be happy to consistently finish fourth like Arsenal?
We are indeed but that is due to a number of problems and only some of these can be squarely levelled at Moyes and for this reason he needs and deserves time to fix them. If he's sacked at the end of the season I won't loose to much sleep, nor will I explode in a fit of rage if he's allowed to stay on though.
No, we should be challenging for the title consistently. I don't know how much time Moyes needs because I'm not sodding nostradamus. If we're looking like we'll miss out on the top 4 next season then he'll be off, most likely.
It would be nice to finish 4th tbh.
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