I fear the ceiling ain't too high with Moyes, even if he does eventually get it right.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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Maybe not but it's far too early to tell.
This season, yeah it'd be fecking marvelous. But should standards be lowered now under Moyes, we're already looking at fourth place being an achievement next season. How far can Moyes take us?
Longer than 8 months, no idea, no we shouldn't.
We haven't "consistently" finished anywhere under Moyes yet.
More time than he's had so far.
I agree he needs time, but how much time, when will we see a change?
I firmly believe that he would be fully backed if we knew where he was taking us, we don't though, and to me and others that's the biggest worry.
I said when he got the job it's important for him to do the job his way and not become a diluted version of Fergie, he seems to be exactly that at the moment. The best thing he could do now is implement his vision into the team straight away, if that means dropping the big name players then so be it, he has to start thinking of it as his team and not Fergies.
As with every manager at this club, he's been hired to win trophies. Without them, he won't be round long. Obviously, the people that hired him think he can do this. If he can't, he's out. He'll be allowed enough time to put his own stamp on the team and prove whether or not he's capable of meeting these high standards. It's like signing a new player. There's an element of doubt about whether they can step up but you don't write them off until they've had a season or so to try.
Yeah, fair enough - but if that's what people are worried about I personally think their fears are unfounded. We won't stick with Moyes if he can't make us challenge for the major trophies, I firmly believe that. 4th place trophy isn't for us. Fergie doesn't think so, Charlton doesn't think so, Gill doesn't think so. We have to believe that. If not it means the Glazers have a plan in mind that every single one of us would regard as a veritable death knell of sorts - and that has absolutely nothing to do with Dave Moyes. If the owners are fine with United dropping out of the real running it won't matter who the manager is.
Say we've another poor summer and Moyes is left with the same under performing squad that doesn't seem to have taken to him, does next season count as another free pass? Just out of interest.
I think the under performing players will be gone in the summer, so they will have no choice but to strengthen.
It is Fergie's team, bar Mata and Microphone. It take's time to impose any sort of vision, let alone to alter the way this group of players play after so long under the manager they've been under. This talk of "vision" and "philosophy" is all well and good but if we were playing shit football and winning hardly anyone would care. If he can get some good signings in in the middle and get a bit of team spirit and motivation going there's no reason why our much loved SAF era tumescent, predictable zombie passing can't start winning us games again.
This may be the case, but the top quality talent Moyes insists we're in for become very difficult to attract with no Champions League football. It remains to be seen how much the Glazer's will back Moyes. Mata was a panic buy, a quality player but a panic buy nonetheless. I said in the summer transfer thread we should be looking at the top players in the Europa League, France and Portugal as I think this would be the best strategy to strengthen. But for all we know Woodward and Moyes could make a balls of it again, and we really can't afford to.
Mata's a panic buy now. Jaysus christ.
I think if there is no progress by next Christmas, he will be gone. They will let him have another window to get rid of the players who aren't performing and get players in. If he cannot do it with what will basically be his own team, then he could be in trouble. The problem then would be getting a replacement quick for January, or they may put in a caretaker manager and the board make purchases. He will not be gone at the end of this season.
I don't think we would have bought him if we were comfortably in the top four, so yeah.
Now you're just being contrary.
Moyes probably didn't think he would be inheriting a bunch of players who are either not wanting to or are incapable of changing to his methods.
If Mata was a fecking panic buy I hope we panic a lot more often in the transfer market.
What about RVP, we didn't need him either, was that Fergie's last panic buy?
How so? Do you genuinely think we would've broken our record transfer fee for someone sat on Chelsea's bench, albeit a quality player we probably don't need, if our season wasn't heading in a disastrous direction?
I agree, as well as getting a replacement in January a new manager may have little or no money to spend. If Moyes is still the manager come the summer, my hope is he spends the money wisely, otherwise we could be in deep trouble.
van Persie was a short sighted signing, but no, he wasn't a panic buy.
Then tell me, please, how is the signing of Mata even slightly different to the signing of RVP?
Yes. Simply because there was interest on our part back in the summer as well.
With this latest speculation surrounding Vidic's future i must again wonder at his man management of the squad. I'd have thought it prudent for Moyes to cultivate the support of senior and popular players at least in the short term, yet if anything the signs point to the contrary being pursued.
How long did it take Sir Alex to write off Taibi or Prunier?
If they're not good enough, they're not good enough, giving them a lot of time will only delay the inevitable and cause more damage.
I think when a player like Mata becomes available you just get him. I don't think our league position or season direction was even a part of the decision making. Every signing is about improving the team, and a player like Mata does.
Also, dismissing him as a benchwarmer is absolutely ludicrous. He's been their best player the two seasons previous. The only reason he was dropped is Mourinho didn't fancy him.
RVP was Sir Alex's final indulgence buy...
IIRC the speculation regarding Vidic has persisted for a good 3 years now. I.e even will Fergie was here.
You seriously can't see the difference between the Mata and van Persie transfers?
Well, for one City were interested in van Persie. I believe that played a big part in our interest as Ferguson could not allow City to strengthen even further. It's the general consensus within RedCafe that van Persie was Ferguson's last hurrah.
Mata was signed mainly down to the fact our season was faltering, and quickly. He was available, unlike van Persie.
Neither were necessary signings to be honest, especially with the state of our midfield you'd imagine that £60 odd million could've been invested elsewhere but I'm glad we've both as they're world class.
Please explain why we didn't sign Ozil and let him go to Arsenal?
There's like to be 2 top 4 places up for grabs if we did it.
This is what I don't get, a lot of the top sides have new managers this season, Chavs, Shitty, Everton even Spurs now and all have hit the ground running or got into their stride at least. Moyes has done neither, with a Championship winning squad. He should have been able to keep up a reasonable standard, but the standard has dropped considerably.
None of the other top sides have needed 'time' to get going, or have got going reasonably quickly. Apart from Rodgers, who we like to laugh at because of the way he expresses himself, but he at least had a clear idea where he was going & it has started to come to fruition and he had a far, far worse squad to start with than Moyes has.
It would appear, also, that Martinez has made a better fist of Everton than Moyes ever did. He's brought in a few loan players and lost Fellatio, but the core is what he inherited from Moyes.
None of the other top sides have needed 'time' to get going, or have got going reasonably quickly. Apart from Rodgers, who we like to laugh at because of the way he expresses himself, but he at least had a clear idea where he was going & it has started to come to fruition and he had a far, far worse squad to start with than Moyes has.
It would appear, also, that Martinez has made a better fist of Everton than Moyes ever did. He's brought in a few loan players and lost Fellatio, but the core is what he inherited from Moyes.
I wouldnt say it was an indulgence, as without him we'd have lost him to City and along with him, the league. Yes, at that time i too thought it was an indulgence buy but now i think of it as a necessity.
So, if a world class goalkeeper became available should we become interested?
Ok so Fergie left a team that needed work in midfield but, outside of that in every position we have some very skillful / capable players. Fergie did not have us playing lovely football every week but, it was football that worked along with this ability to motivate. Yes, it will take time for Moyes to completely stamp his authority on the team but, 7+ months into the job - with the quality of players he has at his disposal, if he does have ideas in mind surely we would see at least some of those on the field. We are not
Every season, multiple times, we see new managers go into clubs with players with supposedly lesser ability and at least get the team playing how they want to. So why can't Moyes? Is it a case of Moyes spending this first part of his reign just trying to get results using the system United has always played in or is it a case of Moyes simply not being able to get the team playing with whatever vision he has?
I think it is the latter, we've seen times when we start games well, pressing and trying to play with urgency and when things don't quite happen or god forbid we get the first goal, the play drops off. A sign of players not having confidence in what they've been coached to do. Resort to playing scared and reverting to what they knew under Fergie. At the same time Moyes seems to just let them, probably because he ends up just wanting to get the result and hoping that the tried and trusted way that won the league last year will see them through games. Problem is that tried and trusted way involved players having a real belief, something lacking so far under Moyes.
Moyes will get a lot of people on his side if he can before the end of the season show signs of his vision on the field and also start to get some players performing better than they have. Show during games that he is not completely lost and is able to rally the troops to really give it a go rather than sit meekly back.
If he is going to go down at least he should go down fighting.
Every season, multiple times, we see new managers go into clubs with players with supposedly lesser ability and at least get the team playing how they want to. So why can't Moyes? Is it a case of Moyes spending this first part of his reign just trying to get results using the system United has always played in or is it a case of Moyes simply not being able to get the team playing with whatever vision he has?
I think it is the latter, we've seen times when we start games well, pressing and trying to play with urgency and when things don't quite happen or god forbid we get the first goal, the play drops off. A sign of players not having confidence in what they've been coached to do. Resort to playing scared and reverting to what they knew under Fergie. At the same time Moyes seems to just let them, probably because he ends up just wanting to get the result and hoping that the tried and trusted way that won the league last year will see them through games. Problem is that tried and trusted way involved players having a real belief, something lacking so far under Moyes.
Moyes will get a lot of people on his side if he can before the end of the season show signs of his vision on the field and also start to get some players performing better than they have. Show during games that he is not completely lost and is able to rally the troops to really give it a go rather than sit meekly back.
If he is going to go down at least he should go down fighting.
Not like you to take random speculation and immediately spin it to use as evidence that the manager is incompetent.
Oh wait. It is like you.
In fact, that would sum up almot every post you've made, all season long.
Januzaj, Kagawa and Rooney battling out for their one natural position was not enough? Mata was a want, not a need.
Mata plays quite comfortably in a number of positions. Moyes bought him, and actually said that he bought him because he's looking to change our style, and the fact that he wants a fluid attacking setup, and also that he was bought to improve the quality of our squad.
Panic buy just suits your agenda better, so you'll just keep saying it again and again though, ignoring silly little things like "facts".
How long did it take Sir Alex to write off Taibi or Prunier?
If they're not good enough, they're not good enough, giving them a lot of time will only delay the inevitable and cause more damage.
Oh I'm sorry. Has SAF written off moyes? Only he gave exactly the opposite impression in an interview last week.
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