a round of applause for their patience. They backed the new manager all the way until the beginning of December. What a stoic bunch they are!
Even Moyes' biggest supporters will surely answer Klopp.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. I think the way we've set up this season hasn't been especially attractive. My major concern with his appointment beforehand was the style of football he'd played at Everton for much of his time there. Thus far, with much better players, he hasn't managed to move away from that very much. As you say, that might change if people start playing, but my concern would be that all we'll get is a better version of what we're already seeing.
I don't agree with that myself. To me it looks like Moyes has set the team up in such a way that the players are struggling to perform. Or rather, the formation is relying on particularly out of form wingers to provide the cutting edge.
To me, that is a lack of objectivity. It's not a question of whether Moyes has 'proved himself a failure' but whether United are more or less likely to be successful under a better manager.
You see, that's the crux of the issue for me. As a general rule you will always want an upgrade. I would have chosen either of those managers over Moyes at the time so, in the abstract, I'd prefer either to be our manager now. But having hired Moyes, I'd prefer that we afford him the opportunity to see it through and prove the people who hired him right to think that he could become a manager at that level. And before people say it, no it's not a "the United way" argument, it comes down to my own personal view that people, even in pressurised environments such as football, and in a daunting job like succeeding Fergie, deserve time to do the job they were hired to do. It would be a tough call, though.
I respect that view, that there's a sort of fairness behind giving someone enough time to prove themselves good enough (or not). However, as a supporter, I will always be on the side of what is likely to be best for the club rather than any individual.
I think there's definitely some agenda-based posting but that's hardly restricted to this topic. Every single topic here has an element of that.
Well, you don't want to be constantly changing managers (or players) just because there is someone available who may (or may not) be slightly better. It's only when you are confident that you are getting a significant upgrade that it's worth it.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, if you view what is best for the club as a long term thing and are willing to tolerate a (hopefully relatively brief) fallow period. Moyes, if successful, would allow us to continue with an ethos and approach that has proven very successful for us in the past 20 odd years. Admittedly, that's far from a given, though.
Personally I think it would be inspired. It would allow Moyes to spend on his type of center back, with the right age to build his defence around. Some one to enforce his defending philosophy by being a leader.
Aren't both Vidic and Rio both "leaders" in defence, though?
Unlike Terry this season, both have started falling apart and have both shown a start inability to organise our defending as their physical powers fade.
