Knocking Bayern of its perch greatly appeals him.
Moyes So Far!
- Thread starter RedTillI'mDead
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He's mentioned his desire to have interchanging attacking players a few times. Plus there are virtually no wingers playing at the top level these days. So yes I think Moyes is intending to change our playing style. It would be ludicrous not to do so - and despite popular opinion, Moyes is not an absolute idiot.
My concern is that we haven't actually tried anything different, tried something to get more from what we have, that has been Moyes main failing so far. He just hadn't reacted to our situation, we have a variety of players who could play through the middle already, Carrick and Jones can hold, Kagawa,Januzaj,Rooney spearheaded by a pacey deadly striker like Hernadez ?
I am not against Moyes here but I am worried about his reaction time if the start of the season and now are what it takes to spot his way isn't working.....he has spotted that already right ? Right ?
He is known to be an ardent admirer of German football so it's possible there may be a clue in that. Only guessing of course.
I hope so but so far he's opted far more often than not for the most rigid attack he could have by playing Valencia nearly every game who effectively fixes the rest of the attack.
He's had the players available to play that way over a lot of the season but chosen not too. As I said I hope he does change but his actual approaches in games don't match.
I believe we will change our style.his season will go down in history as one to forget but it could be a season which is remembered as a turning point in our history.It may be the season where we completely lost it, but it may be the season remember for when we evolved, finally from a side that attacks with two out and out wide men!
I think it might assist fans' understanding of what he's trying to achieve and how, if he came out with some sort of Vision Statement detailing things like player recruitment plans (only in general of course), the formation he's intending his team to play in, etc etc.
I think that there is a lot betwen 'being an idiot' and 'not wanting/being capable of changing the style of play'.
He has been brilliant in cheap signings but very average on the big ones (Yakuby, Bilaledinov have been a bit shit, Johnson average while Fellaini was good).
Not wanting to change our style of play would make Moyes an absolute cretin of the highest order.
He might not want to change it as much as people on here would like him to but he's certainly going to change it.
The speculation regarding Vidic and his possible decision to leave, couldn't come at a worse time. Maybe it's the press trying to turn the screw a little (although, I do feel Moyes has had a bit of a free run of it, in the press).
We keep mentioning luck etc, but if this is true about Vidic deciding to leave mid season, then coupled with Rio acting like a t**t on twitter, it's just plain wrong for senior players to be doing it. I understand wanting to move at the end of the contract, but the timing is shocking.
Moyes needs his players to get behind him, for the benifit of the club, whether they like the guy or not.
Let's just hope Rio was being solid and not really directing any banter at Moyes, and the Vidic stuff is all speculation. If it insn't, then DM has got one hell of a job on his hands....but it could work in his favour if the club back him.
We keep mentioning luck etc, but if this is true about Vidic deciding to leave mid season, then coupled with Rio acting like a t**t on twitter, it's just plain wrong for senior players to be doing it. I understand wanting to move at the end of the contract, but the timing is shocking.
Moyes needs his players to get behind him, for the benifit of the club, whether they like the guy or not.
Let's just hope Rio was being solid and not really directing any banter at Moyes, and the Vidic stuff is all speculation. If it insn't, then DM has got one hell of a job on his hands....but it could work in his favour if the club back him.
If I'm being honest I wouldn't.
No, it wouldn't. Despite the popular belief, the gam with wingers doesn't neccesarily mean that is a shit system. If it can be implemented correctly with the right players it may be very effective and attractive. Finding the right players and implementing it in the right way is difficult though.
He may think to change it or not, we don't know it. He has been very unwilling to try something different though (despite we had Januzaj and Kagawa who are more suited to other systems, and now we have Mata too). We'll see in the future what he think.
Personaly I think thta he should change it (at least in the short term) but if he can find a way to be succesful with this system, then it is okay to continue with this. It doesn't look likely that he can find a way to do it in the right way with the wingers (and midfield) we have though.
Im under the impression its Moyes kicking Vidic out.
Vidic would have started this season with a clean slate like everybody else, and he has been at best average by his own standards. Big contract, big presence on the squad. It would be a strong call to let him go if he is willing to sign for another year.
I note in the speculation that there is every possibility that United are not willing to give him the contract length/money he is after. I think he is good for another season, but to give him a longer contract than that, given his recent injury record, I think would be daft.
Moyes must have an idea of new defensive signings, but to lose both Vidic and Rio in one swoop could potentially be hazardous.
We will see, I guess.
I know he has a history with injuries and needs to be looked after etc, but the fact Moyes is dropping his trousers and bending over for RVP and Rooney for that matter, would suggest kicking out Vidic is not something Moyes has the brass to do
Yes, yes it would. We've been putting out some absolutely dreadful stuff. It simply has to be changed. Choosing not to do so would just be incredibly dumb.
Of course it's possible to play with wingers. That's not the point. But what we're doing at the moment goes beyond "playing with wingers". We play with a set up that is ENTIRELY based around a midfield that passes it wide to the wingers, and then as many players as possible pile into the box and wait for something to happen. Even the wingers are reluctant to run at a man or do something unpredictable. The wingers main purpose of the wingers in our system at the moment is to hold the ball to allow the full back to overlap.
If Moyes were to not change this system then he would be a moron and the biggest impostor to have ever been employed by Manchester United. I trust that he's not and that he will.
This 100%....He can't be that big of a fool not to change it...Suppose we'll find out over the next month
Moyes is not exactly new in this game... 10 years at everton he hasn't show he has the ability to evolve and change, what makes u think he can suddenly turn into klop mk2 after 7 mths of dire football?
Moyes has seen Fergie's ''put importance to wingplay but apply some reasonable buildup play from the middle of the pitch'' and raised it with ''your only objective is stay on the wings and get to that moneyball byline ya hear may (fishing boat sailor accent)!!''...
So ''we have been playing like this the past two years under SAF'' shaolin keyboard fighting monks... what have you got to say for yourselves...
Ok, so this particular bit of egregious nonsense has woken me from my hibernation.
There's been a quite staggering amount of drivel posted on here this season. Genuinely laughable. Recent highlights would include, in no particular order:
"Moyes only knows how to set his team out 442" - almost as though his entire career at Everton never happened.
"Kagawa must be quick, he got the best time in the bleep test" - posted without a hint or irony, earlier this week.
"Moyes must have made Mata play out wide against Stoke because he made 9 crosses" - well gee, do you think the corners he took might have contributed to that total?
Then there's noodles perennial insistence that the manager should pick a settled team, ignoring the fact that picking a settled team has two basic requirements. You need a core of players consistently playing well and you need these players to not get injured. Correct me if I'm wrong but that's a short fcuking list, right? David De Gea and... erm... hold on... I'll get back to you on that...
Finally, our resident self-appointed "professor" chimes in with this fcuking heat map. Where to begin? Turns out he nicked it from reddit. Never spent much time on there before but was thoroughly depressed to see how many posters on there could see the obvious flaw in taking a diagram like that at face value while only one caftard dared to point out that the emperor has no clothes. Come on lads, you need to up your game!
@Chesterlestreet seems to be an almost lone voice of reason on here and he argues his point very well. I agree with everything he says. Personally, I wouldn't have had Moyes as my choice for Fergie's successor and he's done nothing since to convince me that my instincts are wrong. It's still far to early to decide he's not up to the job though. There's a long list of very good reasons for the team under-performing, only some of which he could have been expected to resolve in his short time at the club. The problem is, to get a team competing with the best teams in the league this season (all of whom are having their best season in years) just addressing some of these issues is not enough. All the more so when you're managing a team of players who will inevitably be struggling to adjust to life after Fergie, a man who most of them have known as a colossus of the game since they were in primary school. They can't lose that sort of presence at the training ground and on match-day without losing a lot of self-belief with him. It's almost a bereavement and, as everyone knows, the only cure for bereavement is time.
As the months go by, without these issues being resolved, it looks worse and worse for Moyes. Time will tell whether he's the right man for the job but it would be nice if people could at least try to reserve judgement and discuss what is needed to improve the team without constantly looking for new and varied ways to hold the manager 100% responsible. That's the sort of agenda posting which has made the vast majority of posts on here an incredibly depressing read for almost the whole season so far.
@Pogue Mahone Glad to see you back, Pogue!
@Pogue Mahone You're back!
It's been depressing reading the caf largely because the season's been depressing. A lot of the posting has actually been in fairly good humour, though people are understandably angry after the games.
It's been depressing reading the caf largely because the season's been depressing. A lot of the posting has actually been in fairly good humour, though people are understandably angry after the games.
That's true. Although what's depressed me about this place - as opposed to the football in general, which is depressing enough - is the constant mean-spirited sniping about the manager and the team. It's overwhelming.
As I said, there's loads of good reasons for us under-performing, a lot of which shouldn't result in the finger being pointed at anyone. Losing Fergie was a seismic event. This gets ignored a lot. Goes without saying there's a lot that can be done to turn things round and this is worthy of discussion. Needs to be seen in context though.
Something else that gets ignored a lot is the fact that Fergie's departure coincided with all the teams around us having their best season in years. This is a big deal. People keep saying 4th place would secure Moyes his job. Well, this time last season our current points total would see us 4 points off third place (or was it 3 points? can't remember, read it in a thread earlier this week)
Wait, so because Moyes has had some bad luck with injuries and some player's just aren't performing, he cannot be held in anyway responsible for results?
There has been a lot of shite posted this season, agreed. But that doesn't mean those who feel Moyes has us sinking fast should be immediately discredited for what they post.
There has been a lot of shite posted this season, agreed. But that doesn't mean those who feel Moyes has us sinking fast should be immediately discredited for what they post.
That's something else which blights this forum these days. Fcuking straw men. This place is riddled with them. Where exactly, did I say or imply, that Moyes cannot be held in any way responsible for results?
Christ.
Moyes is struggling from the fact that you only get one chance to make a first impression, and he's done nothing to alter the view that he's not up to the job since the moment he entered the club. The support at the matches has been fantastic, whereas the talk on the caf is more like what you hear in the pub. I wouldn't want to hear the crowd at Old Trafford vocally turn on Moyes, but I think people are fine with voicing their honest opinions on the caf. If you think Moyes isn't up to it, then I don't see the problem with saying so.
Posters attempting to show patience and look for other reasoning get far more discredited. There is even a name for them. "Moyes Apologists".
He is responsible for the results. He doesn't play the football for 'em, though. Nor does he go out and injure 'em. It's not black and white - that's the whole point. I haven't seen anyone reasonable claim that Moyes is in no way to blame. He is to blame - as are the players. And both Moyes and the players are suffering from simply being in the vast space left by Fergie.
T.O.P Reds, Moyes apologists....Can't wait to see what other terms we come up with before this season is out 
Whatever about United, this has probably been the best season this forum has ever had
Whatever about United, this has probably been the best season this forum has ever had
You said we should reserve judgement. That makes no sense.
The main problem is the ever-growing group of dickheads posting 'hilarious' "Oh, let's all get relegated together, only play long balls, sell our best players and marry our cousins because that's the United way" replies.
I'm not trying to stifle discussion (another trope that seems to be embedded in the caf - this idea that disagreeing with people is denying them a right to express themselves) I just think that far too many people are unwilling to take into account really important mitigating circumstances. I also think a lot of them do so because they never wanted Moyes in charge, want him out as quick as possible and are completely unwilling to reserve judgement for any length of time at all.
Are you serious? This place is fecking awful at the moment. It's overrun by idiots whose greatest achievement is convincing their parents to get superfast broadband.T.O.P Reds, Moyes apologists....Can't wait to see what other terms we come up with before this season is out
Whatever about United, this has probably been the best season this forum has ever had
Oh good, Pogue is back to brighten the place up again.
Totally agree on this. Even at the matches, the vocal support is amazing, but turn round and speak to people around you...and you get much more dialogue similar to the Caf. Collectively the matchday supporters are doing the right thing..getting behind Moyes and the team, however on a 1 to 1 basis..at half time...nah...it's the same conversations as here mainly!!
That's an absolutely brilliant point, it's been doing my head in.
Atmosphere does seem to have improved this season, if anything. Matchgoing fans have been great.
Mind you a lot of them have always loved a good moan, no matter who's in charge. The last game I was at the bloke beside me spent literally the entire game telling anyone who would listen exactly how much he despised Anderson and Nani and how fcuking thick Fergie was to keep picking them.
For what it's worth I wanted Moyes. But as the season has progressed it has become increasingly evident to me that he isn't the man for the job. I respect other's opinion, I admire those of you more patient. But I just fail to see how he can turn this around, I really do. He's a good manager at a great club, something doesn't add up. I don't think RedCafe has been poor during this period, on the contrary I think it's been alive and well. There's plenty of different opinions floating about at the moment. I've probably argued my point in a lot calmer manner than other's in my camp though, so there's that.
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